Retail releases instead of Steam-types for same titles. Stronger ownership?

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Originally Posted by qubit

Like how? They expressly forbid refunds in their SSA except under exceptional circumstances. You're stuck with it if you simply don't like it. Steam could improve their customer service here.

I managed it with Crysis 2 recently, because they sold it with undisclosed 3rd party DRM. No way could I have had that refund otherwise. The bastards weren't even gracious about it and made out like they did me a favour.

I started a thread on it, if you want to read all about it.

It's why I do something else before wanting to purchase a game but this method is heavily frowned upon for being talked about. Main reason why I bought Shadow of Chernobyl and several other titles.
Okay how about a friend or housemate owning the same game and buying your own copy of it? Sometimes I have friends who own much more difficult to find games which are easily installable, since the majority of them have many titles in flawless condition, I'm more likely to buy my own copy of it later. Well more due to availability.
Again would be nice for more companies to have demos for their games just in case someone is interested in a particular title. Otherwise if a PC title has a console counterpart, I'll be playing it on console in the meantime until buying the PC release.
Just checked my Amazon.com wishlist for PC games and damn there're alot!

EDIT: Aren't retail releases easier to mod compared to the ones from Steam i.e. Oblivion and other Bethesda games/other titles though?

[Sir B. Fannybottom]

1) It is still room on a shelf that could be used for books or some shit.
2)Most people don't have a server in their home, I don't and I have to keep all the patches for my CD games on my extra drive and it drives me crazy that the 100 gigs it takes up is there.
3)It's secure for a reason, if someone robs you and steals your computer with your steam on it, change your password. Done, they don't have the game. If they steal your disc with the code on it, they just got a free game.
4)I have terrible internet, most of the time the download is below 4 and the upload has only gone over 1 once in my 6 years of this isp but I still like steam more than retail. Even my 54 year old mother uses steam
5)Yes they may be, but you can just re download them. 2 hours of downloading BBC2 is way better than going to a store, fighting with the workers, having them check the disc, then always saying no. Then you have to go to the manufacturer and spend a week working with that.
6)yes they may be $20 but if you need to replace them every few months they it really adds up. I live in a home where we have gotten maybe 7 or 8 of those 200 stacks of discs and we hardly use them anyway. I could and I'm pretty sure most people can last a few months with out even having a disc drive plugged in.
7) You still get a code with steam, with retail games there is a option to "see serial code"
8) See #7 and you can easly google the user manual online, though I think the only use for user manuals is something to read while you install the game. I think valve is a very good company and if something is wrong with your game, they will just give you another. My CS 1.6 messed up and they gave me source for free, all I had to do is ask.
9)It's worse for discs, with discs you buy them once, and thats it. So what if steam closes and you will have to download your games? I'm sure they would email your to notify you and give you codes for all purchased games, that would work if you downloaded the game of the game creator's site.
10)Yes that is a downside, but who really likes lending your games out to friends? Most of the time they come back scratched. Or when they have the game you suddenly feel the urge to play it!

[Sir B. Fannybottom]

Originally Posted by Ray_Rogers2109

Even though I do enjoy buying stuff online there's nothing like the feeling of going into a store and mingling with folks who are shopping and are working there. Too much of a shut-in is far too unhealthy. Even glad I went last week to buy S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl and BRAID from Best Buy. Yes retail chains might have less inventory, oh certainly not Fry's Electronics, but more often than not online retail could be in fact cheaper from Amazon.
So yeah it's nice to have the in-person social interaction instead of only buying games off of Steam all the time. Well there's sales tax but it's nice getting out of the house though.
Don't mind if it's a far older title which now supports XP/Vista/7, I'm looking at the original Aliens versus Predator which I own the physical Gold Edition, and the titles which are distributed Digitally only. (Which would be nice if I could find a listing for the latter.)


EDIT: Oh I have a great internet connection, cable 16-30 mbps and agree with all of FordConcepts post prior to mine. One thing I loathe is trying to find patches for many of the older titles I own. Yeah sure my internet connection is damn awesome but I'd still much rather own physical retail again due to what FordConcept posted.

Yes, but I'm a child (13) and to go about 6 or 7 kms to the store to buy anything is a hassle. I live in a small town near the Us border (leamington ON) and we have almost nothing for games, we have a Wal-mart, and a zellers. That's it. Those places often don't have the games I would like to buy and if they do it is outrageously priced! When L4d2 came out it was priced for $74. Yes, you do sometimes find those random games in the bin, but often they are no longer being majorly sold. That's what I think the game section in places like walmart and zellers are for. Oh, and the whole talking to people in stores thing, I hate. Because you always need to hear them talk about their child, or them lecturing you about how video games are bad for you. I get this 1111028x because of my age.

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Originally Posted by Kevinheraiz

Yes, but I'm a child (13) and to go about 6 or 7 kms to the store to buy anything is a hassle. I live in a small town near the Us border (leamington ON) and we have almost nothing for games, we have a Wal-mart, and a zellers. That's it. Those places often don't have the games I would like to buy and if they do it is outrageously priced! When L4d2 came out it was priced for $74. Yes, you do sometimes find those random games in the bin, but often they are no longer being majorly sold. That's what I think the game section in places like walmart and zellers are for. Oh, and the whole talking to people in stores thing, I hate. Because you always need to hear them talk about their child, or them lecturing you about how video games are bad for you. I get this 1111028x because of my age.

I don't have this problem whatsoever since I'm 32 and can't empathise at-all. Get a GreenDot Visa card and buy games that way. Or wait until you get older so you have more financial freedom.
Also, I don't have a Wal*Mart within, oh let's say, 30 miles where I live. Glad I don't. Sucks about your internet. When you're a legal adult you'll be able to choose your own internet company you're with instead of having to complain about your Guardians choices.
Comcast is fine for me, as mentioned 16-30mbps but I'd rather own the retail because 250GB download cap each month. Yep the Comcast is under my name and my responsibility. If there weren't a download cap then I wouldn't give a fuck about downloading but in the meantime I have to keep a keen eye out.

[Sir B. Fannybottom]

My parents are internet dinosaurs and I chose my current ISP, because it is the best I can get that's under $150. It's usually 400kbs down, 66kbs up, during the day. at night the download can jump up to about 2mbs and upload 1.5mbs. I don't have a download cap... (I have the silver package and it's $30 a month I currently have 6 months free because I referred some people to switch to my ISP) I use my bank account that is tied to my pay-pal to buy games online.

[Steevo]

I use steam cause it just works.


And the fact that you get free games when you buy new hardware, and no finding emulators for older games, or as stated before patches, cd cracks, you know.

Lastly, I don't feel like driving all over or waiting for UPS to show after paying shipping for one game.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Steevo

I use steam cause it just works.

Except when it doesn't. Two or three weeks ago, I was wanting to play Terraria. Steam was being an ass so I couldn't play it. Pisses me off.

Originally Posted by Steevo

And the fact that you get free games when you buy new hardware, and no finding emulators for older games, or as stated before patches, cd cracks, you know.

"Finding" takes all of about 1 minute to do. It still takes less time than waiting for an entire game to download.

Originally Posted by Steevo

Lastly, I don't feel like driving all over or waiting for UPS to show after paying shipping for one game.

I have no problem waiting for the snail mail. Play it now or play it later, does it really matter?


I have a challenge for one of you Steam-lovers out there. Name a game we both have (you on Steam, me on disk--not installed) and lets have a little race to see who can first play the game.

[crazyeyesreaper]

lol id cheat Ford id just use my backup drag drop the folder initialize done roflol would take less then 5 mins to drag drop initialize and start gaming and patches well there pretty much on point so no issue waiting on those either but that would be cheating right

[qubit]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

10) You can't trade activated SteamGames because Valve won't allow it (most likely because the publishers won't allow it either). No more, no less. Publishers love online distribution for this reason. They claim trading/resaling costs the industry more than piracy.

Yup, they do and as any clued-up person knows, this claim is completely bogus.

They have no right to your money, because of the first sale doctrine. It would be like Ford or GM saying you can't sell your car, because it would hurt sales of new ones. What a load of tosh! Software is no different.

[Steevo]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Except when it doesn't. Two or three weeks ago, I was wanting to play Terraria. Steam was being an ass so I couldn't play it. Pisses me off.




"Finding" takes all of about 1 minute to do. It still takes less time than waiting for an entire game to download.



I have no problem waiting for the snail mail. Play it now or play it later, does it really matter?


I have a challenge for one of you Steam-lovers out there. Name a game we both have (you on Steam, me on disk--not installed) and lets have a little race to see who can first play the game.

Finding a emulator that either does not cost, and works, and does not carry infection.


Free games, still cant argue with that.

Sure, at 1AM I will name a game and you have to go purchase it, install it, patch it, and play.

[Jstn7477]

I'd like to also add the fact that the Steam Community is valuable to me, at least. I run a decently-sized gaming community (TF2, Killing Floor, L4D2, Minecraft) and the ability to make friends, coordinate events and gain regular members is great. I can post an announcement on my group of 810 people and not have to tell 810 people individually where the hell my servers went after I upgraded them.

Some people just play the games and that's it, but the Steam community is so valuable to server owners looking to grow their communities. Just buying the CD at the store doesn't get you that connection.

[Steevo]

Demos ( yes they are available online, kind of like steam)

[entropy13]

The "Steam community" over here though are mostly the rich (or the middle-class with CC; I'm middle-class but I don't have a credit-card). Since they're the ones with the actual means for non-cash payments.

Then there's the "blinding quick" internet speeds...

[NAVI_Z]

wow...people are still buying physical media?....some "retail" games cost three times as much as the cd/dvd-rom that it gets played on!...lol....To each his/her own i guess....i dont remember the last "retail" game i bought. i've been downloading all my games either from Steam or some other online source.And although i dont have the actual physical disk, the backups i make DO take up space on my shelf on the external hdd, but i can have all my games backed up on one single external hdd. i guess i have a bit of both worlds.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Steevo

Finding a emulator that either does not cost, and works, and does not carry infection.

Steam has nothing to do with emulators. Steam does not emulate games--all games it has were designed to work on Windows or Mac OS X.

Originally Posted by Steevo

Free games, still cant argue with that.

True. All except one of my games on Steam are free. The only exception is Terraria and that is because Terraria is Steam only (they are not using any other publishers). It still annoys me that they require 3rd party software to install and it is yet another hurdle to jump over before a format (compared to having all the disks). But, again, can't really complain too much because they were free (to some extent).

Originally Posted by Steevo

Sure, at 1AM I will name a game and you have to go purchase it, install it, patch it, and play.

I said we both must already own it.

Like I said, I have no problems waiting 1-2 weeks to get a game. What I have a problem with is having the urge to play a game but having to wait to download to play it which could take days versus a minute to find the disk and start the install.

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Steam has nothing to do with emulators. Steam does not emulate games--all games it has were designed to work on Windows or Mac OS X.



True. All except one of my games on Steam are free. The only exception is Terraria and that is because Terraria is Steam only (they are not using any other publishers). It still annoys me that they require 3rd party software to install and it is yet another hurdle to jump over before a format (compared to having all the disks). But, again, can't really complain too much because they were free (to some extent).



I said we both must already own it.

Like I said, I have no problems waiting 1-2 weeks to get a game. What I have a problem with is having the urge to play a game but having to wait to download to play it which could take days versus a minute to find the disk and start the install.

But some games, hopefully, will never be for Mac OS X crap.

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by NAVI_Z

wow...people are still buying physical media?....some "retail" games cost three times as much as the cd/dvd-rom that it gets played on!...lol....To each his/her own i guess....i dont remember the last "retail" game i bought. i've been downloading all my games either from Steam or some other online source.And although i dont have the actual physical disk, the backups i make DO take up space on my shelf on the external hdd, but i can have all my games backed up on one single external hdd. i guess i have a bit of both worlds.

Shogun 2 in Steam: $33.50 (33% sale)

Shogun 2 Standard Edition in Retail (over here): ~$27.78 (25% sale)
Shogun 2 Limited Edition in Retail (over here): ~$33.33 (25% sale)
Shogun 2 Collector's Edition in Retail (over here): ~$44.44


RE: Stronger ownership...

Whether from Retail or from Steam, you don't "own the game." You're just given a license and access to the game.

In the case of retail, by agreeing to the EULA you also give them the "right" to take away all copies of the game once it is "withdrawn from the market." I don't know with Steam though.

[Ray_Rogers2109]

I think I should've put retail having a stronger sense of ownership for the consumer.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by entropy13

In the case of retail, by agreeing to the EULA you also give them the "right" to take away all copies of the game once it is "withdrawn from the market." I don't know with Steam though.

You're agreeing to that EULA Steam or not. You got the Steam EULA on top of the game's EULA.

Technically, Games for Windows Live games can't even be distributed on these distrobution services because the GFWL requirements explicitly state only one EULA should ever be presented to the user during install.

[ShiBDiB]

Steam for the convenience factor.. The odds of steam losing all ur games on ur account are problly just as unlikely that someone comes in and steals all ur discs from your house.

That and you dont actually own the game in either case.. by EULA you just own the right to play the game.

[FordGT90Concept]

People thought PSN would never get hacked as it did...


If you take it to court, EULA's rarely carry any weight over traditional copyright law.

[yogurt_21]

lol ford, your method is storage via server/hard disk. So anyone who uses the same method regardless of the way the game wa spurchased will be just as fast. I happen to have 2 backup copies of my games. 1 is on my NAS, the other on a 2 tb usb drive.

I buy most modern games on steam and have my old disc library as well, it doesn't matter how I purchased it though, my NAS and backup drive store them all.

in the end it doesn't matter where the f you buy the game, you're going to have to download something. Patches, dlc, etc. So being too reliant upon either method is foolish.

besides download corruption? "oh dang I have to redownload it" vs, corrupted disc, "crap I have to buy it again"

one's an incovenience, the other hits you directly in the wallet.

also steam = full unused uncorrupted copy of the game, the amazon deals the op speaks of are a gamble, it coulbe be in excellent condition, it could be junk. You won't know for 2 weeks until it's delivered. If it's an fps, I'll have already ebat my steam copy by the time you find out your amazon deal one was used as a beer coaster for 2 years before the guy decided to sell it.

This is especially true of vintage games.

if you find a deal on a retail copy great, but regarding it as somehow better because it's retail doesn't make a lick of sense.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by yogurt_21

lol ford, your method is storage via server/hard disk. So anyone who uses the same method regardless of the way the game wa spurchased will be just as fast. I happen to have 2 backup copies of my games. 1 is on my NAS, the other on a 2 tb usb drive.

No, the games are on CD/DVD. My server only has related files such as patches, serials, no-cds, etc. Currently, that only accounts for 46.7 GiB of capacity for over 300 games (and most of that comes from 500+ MiB patches for a few games). These are things that there's no sense in burning because they can often get out-dated.

All that data is redundant on the server and it gets backed up monthly to a external drive which sits in a water-proof and fire-proof safe all the time it isn't being used.

Originally Posted by yogurt_21

in the end it doesn't matter where the f you buy the game, you're going to have to download something. Patches, dlc, etc. So being too reliant upon either method is foolish.

There's several games that have no patches nor DLCs like Fable III and Alpha Protocol.

Originally Posted by yogurt_21

besides download corruption? "oh dang I have to redownload it" vs, corrupted disc, "crap I have to buy it again"

Most publishers will send you a replacement disk so long as you can prove you own it and pay for S&H. It's usually $5 or less--cheaper than the montly bill for an internet connection.

Originally Posted by yogurt_21

also steam = full unused uncorrupted copy of the game, the amazon deals the op speaks of are a gamble, it coulbe be in excellent condition, it could be junk. You won't know for 2 weeks until it's delivered. If it's an fps, I'll have already ebat my steam copy by the time you find out your amazon deal one was used as a beer coaster for 2 years before the guy decided to sell it.

I've bought dozens of games from Amazon and there was only one situation where the product was sold as new but like-new quality (never played, but seal broke). 99.0% of the time, you're getting a genuine copy of the game for under $10. Buy 3 at a time and you get them shipped to you free too. None I have recieved "didn't work." Only one I had to return because the game box itself was damaged.

Originally Posted by yogurt_21

This is especially true of vintage games.

Vintage being how old? I bought the 1998 StarCraft collection from Amazon not too long ago. It was sold as new and arrived factory sealed. I never buy used.

[puma99dk|]

only thing that i don't like with buying a game though steam is that if ur account gets hacked and u loose all ur games they want u to have the original game u can take pics of and that to get it back, than there ain't much into spending around 500USD or more on games on steam if that happens, just my 2 cent

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Majority of the games on my wishlist on Amazon are 9/10 direct from Amazon or from a store selling a game, i.e. inetvideo, and not from another seller on the Marketplace. Usually a company compared to a third hand seller.
Sorry to disappoint but all second hand games, even new direct from Amazon, have been in very great to sealed condition. It's not a gamble if tons of the titles are directly from Amazons warehouse. Thanks for portraying me to be an idiot for buying allegedly overly scratched discs in the past when well nevermind, people simply just don't give a fuck if others prefer a factory sealed release of a game or not.

EDIT: Glad I'm being "ripped-off" for waiting for a good price for retail instead of buying it from Steam which many other suckers fall for.