Retail releases instead of Steam-types for same titles. Stronger ownership?

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by Frick

I like my thick papery manuals and shiny cases.

Mine all get destroyed (I am not a neat person). Only one I think I got left is my Age of Conan Collectors Edition, and it's just sitting in my closet. And now with a kid, paper is just fun for him to tear, and cd's are fun to throw around.

[twicksisted]

This whole thread is like people argueing whether apples are better than oranges.
If you like oranges, no ones forcing you to buy an apple.

[Kreij]

Originally Posted by twicksisted

This whole thread is like people argueing whether apples are better than oranges.
If you like oranges, no ones forcing you to buy an apple.

You are correct, twick, but a healthy discussion over whether vitamin A is more useful than Vitamin C makes for interesting reading.
If you get my drift.

Carry on ... keep it civil (as it has been so far).

[digibucc]

not really. it's more like someone saying apples are better than oranges because oranges
have a whole set of restrictions on them.which they don't.

or rather, if they did - they have the same restrictions as apples do.

steam uses so little in the way of cpu/ram , and the ancillary installs are hardly worth
mentioning. i like it running all of the time(means i'm up to date), and it's all-included.

Originally Posted by streetfighter 2

A lot of the cat's who have fast internet connections are saying that Steam is more like leasing, and the physical copy crew are all saying that Steam is more like renting.

who has likened it to leasing? you pay up front you own the game. simple. we are saying
there is no difference in ownership between digital and physical, you just feel like there is
because you have something physical to hold. if anything, digital has MORE advantages.

Originally Posted by Kreij

http://img.techpowerup.org/110706/ironing.jpg

lol @ sf, lol @ me. I didn't get that it was irony I really thought he was
serious about 200mb!

[streetfighter 2]

Originally Posted by twicksisted

This whole thread is like people argueing whether apples are better than oranges.
If you like oranges, no ones forcing you to buy an apple.

I think it's a bit more like leasing vs renting. A lot of the cat's who have fast internet connections are saying that Steam is more like leasing, and the physical copy crew are all saying that Steam is more like renting. Then there's people like me that are reading the thread and laughing, because this is why we can't have nice things.

For those who don't know (highly generalized definitions). . .
Leasing - Static contract, long term.
Renting - Variable contract, short term.
Steam could go tits up tomorrow and we'd all be SOL. That's kinda the basis for the slow internet people's argument. (No one ever owns a game, as has been stated. You buy the right to play it.)

Originally Posted by digibucc

steam uses so little in the way of cpu/ram , and the ancillary installs are hardly worth
mentioning. i like it running all of the time(means i'm up to date), and it's all-included.

If you had 10TB of games then 200MB of supplementary installs could be a bit of a pain in the backside.

@digibucc - Clearly you don't get ironing.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by twicksisted

This whole thread is like people argueing whether apples are better than oranges.
If you like oranges, no ones forcing you to buy an apple.

I said that like 5 posts ago And I don't want your Oranges!

[Kreij]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

I said that like 5 posts ago And I don't want your Oranges!

So you want his apples? YOU'RE SICK !!!

Originally Posted by SF2

@digibucc - Clearly you don't get ironing.

[digibucc]

Originally Posted by streetfighter 2

Steam could go tits up tomorrow and we'd all be SOL. That's kinda the basis for the slow internet people's argument. (No one ever owns a game, as has been stated. You buy the right to play it.

yeah but as i said, they are wrong about that.

you don't "own" the game when you have a physical copy, either.
just like digital, you purchase the right to play. you just have a shiny
piece of plastic to make you feel better about dropping $60 on it.

Steam will put out a way to play games if it goes under, which i
don't see happening anytime soon. they make a ton of cash, have
a huge userbase, and are very conservative about what changes they actually make.

they'd have to make a big mistake to be in ANY danger, and a huge one
for going under to be a possibility. i don't see that happening anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Kreij

http://img.techpowerup.org/110706/ironing.jpg

lol @ sf, lol @ me. I didn't get that it was irony I really thought he was
serious about 200mb!

[1Kurgan1]

Like Digi is saying (and has been), almost any game out there you do not own. You own the disc, you own the time you put in, but you are still entering a massive user agreement that you probably don't even read.

Originally Posted by Kreij

So you want his apples? YOU'RE SICK !!!

I'll chop down his tree if you know what I mean.

[lilhasselhoffer]

A second Minnesotan must sound off here. Where I am (a suburb of the twin cities) our fastest connection option can occasionally reach 2 MBps. On rare occasions when the planets are aligned, the air temperature is perfect, and you sacrifice a 56k modem to the blood gods of the internet. Those that live in the Midwest know that the hardest part of that statement is probably getting the perfect temperature....

All joking aside, I'm inside the population bubble and still only get Docsis 1.0 service at my home.

Whenever I can, I like to purchase discs. They can be backed up, take minutes to load, and generally are less beholden to stupid DRM schemes and service failure.


This said, Steam is excellent. I can purchase much older games that don't see store shelves, the pricing is better than the complete wallet rape you get at most stores, and it only takes a couple of hours to download over night. Steam should not replace physical media, it should be a supplement to it.

All three of you are arguing over petty differences. That software license you click through, whether on Steam or not, basically forces you to give up all "ownership" of the game. You don't rent, lease, or own; you are a timeshare. Lord, I feel dirty even saying it.


Without getting into the piracy debate, you really have to ask yourself why people try to circumvent DRM in any form. I own a legal (disc) copy of Oblivion, but installed the cracked version on my computer. I do this because DRM causes harm to consumers, that only stops legal consumers from finding joy. When I purchase a game on Steam most of the DRM is hidden well, and doesn't influence my enjoyment of a game.

From where I sit, this is what scares physical media lovers. Steam (generally) does DRM without the intrusion (a huge leap forward), but lacks the perceived solidity and ease of use of traditional media. If Steam wasn't as good as it was, we wouldn't be having this debate.



Troll bait: Steam has proven itself so effective that EA is trying to steal the ideas (Origin). Isn't that the sign that you've done something right?

[Dacur]

Stronger ownership, nah its the same retail/digi, as said many times here. U pay to play, but own nothing aka DRM/Copyright.

Some like shiny things on their shelf's others not, and i dont even wanna think about moving to a new place: hmm, oh shinys, but 100 pounds of discs/cover vs 2 pound of HD, i would take the HD anytime. More convinient that way.

Just my 2 cent.

[1Kurgan1]

Well said lil, whatever makes someone happy should be their choice, or if they have slow internet, probably lean towards buying the boxed games.

I'm surprised your net is so slow down by the cities, even my parents who live 10 miles outside of a 10,000 pop town I think have 3 mb/s dsl.

[lilhasselhoffer]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Well said lil, whatever makes someone happy should be their choice, or if they have slow internet, probably lean towards buying the boxed games.

I'm surprised your net is so slow down by the cities, even my parents who live 10 miles outside of a 10,000 pop town I think have 3 mb/s dsl.

Mbps or MBps? I get a max of about 15-16 Mbps, which translates to 2 MBps.

Generally the difference eludes (non-tech) people, so I make sure my nomenclature remains correct as much as possible.

[1Kurgan1]

I mean Mbps, didn't see your caps, 15-16 mb/s should be fine for dling, there isn't much faster really available in the US (for an average speed).

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Steam won't nag about updating if you turn off the updates (think 2 clicks to get to it and 1 more to turn it off). I personally have a Games folder for all of my games (Steam and Non-Steam) and when I format, I just move that folder to my new OS. Haven't ever had to redownload my library, so after that first download I could just go offline mode and enjoy the non-online games.

I reign from the land of Paul Bunyan, I was born with an Axe in one hand and a Chainsaw in the other.

I bought HAWX retail after torrenting it a few days ago and it did auto-updated which was nice. For me when I install Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit when Atomic Monkey is finished I still need to move over everything, tons of mods, and just re-install all physical copies and approve of merging files.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Like Digi is saying (and has been), almost any game out there you do not own. You own the disc, you own the time you put in, but you are still entering a massive user agreement that you probably don't even read.

Who else will admit they scroll down these without reading them most of the time? I know I do this.

Originally Posted by EastCoasthandle

Actually that's not entirely true. Not all EULA take ownership away from the end user. And most important (something being missed here about retail copies) is that you are not under separate but dual EULA's. That means when you own a physical copy you are only concerned with just that game's EULA. When you prefer digital distribution you have to be concerned with not just the game's EULA but the digital provider of the game as well.

For example:
1. If you post something that is not taken well by the admin, mod, etc of their forum can they remove all access to all purchased content from your account?
2. If you use a program that triggers their anti-cheat protection will they remove all purchased content from your account?
ETC.

To some, having just the game is more beneficial then the convenience of just downloading it. Or trying to justify some sort of excuse why examples like that shouldn't bother a person. But in the end it's really about "my prerogative". Some people are bothered by the conditions set forth with digital downloading (double EULA's etc) while others not so much.

True.
I'm glad Blu-ray has the movie content on the disc instead of downloaded. Well sometimes. Wonder what's keeping companies from releasing PC games onto Blu-ray discs especially titles such as GTA IV. I'm sure I'll put the isos and mods onto a Blu-ray disc sometime.

Or what about far greater resolution stock graphics on an extra disc for those willing to get it and also who have powerful systems? No low low res textures/meshes.

[happita]

Everyone has their preferences, but as for a rule of thumb, I tend to buy games on steam which I will most likely keep forever and probably play from time to time. Games which I see having a decent/high re-sale value or something that I will probably get tired of after I beat it...even after multiplayer (if it has it)....I will buy as a full boxed retail version and sell off later. I think this is the best way to go about it...mixing and matching because no 1 way is the best way, its all about your needs

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Originally Posted by happita

Everyone has their preferences, but as for a rule of thumb, I tend to buy games on steam which I will most likely keep forever and probably play from time to time. Games which I see having a decent/high re-sale value or something that I will probably get tired of after I beat it...even after multiplayer (if it has it)....I will buy as a full boxed retail version and sell off later. I think this is the best way to go about it...mixing and matching because no 1 way is the best way, its all about your needs

True. My needs are buy retail games for newer games which I want to own retail, digital only and far older games with built-in current operating system support through Steam. All VALVe Source titles for myself will be the retail releases. Games such as Terraria I got gifted since one of my broskis had an extra one, did the research and since it's digital only, didn't really mind.
BUT for gifting games on Steam, I don't mind gifting titles in a buddies wishlist though. The majority of them know I have a preference for rather owning the retail and the other two bits from the prior paragraph. All about options really. Disregarding my internet connection speed.
I have all my games set to auto-update, monthly download caps be damned.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Ray_Rogers2109

monthly download caps be damned

Oh... Do you really have a DL cap?! That would definitely persuade me to pick up retail copies.

[Ray_Rogers2109]

Originally Posted by erocker

Oh... Do you really have a DL cap?! That would definitely persuade me to pick up retail copies.

250GB each month. Why when I fully intend for Atomic Monkey to have 6-8TB HDD space? I don't think places of education i.e. college campuses, even have download caps.
Why when I pay for 16mbps a month but when I check SpeedTest it's 30-32? I think waiting for stuff to download especially huge games such as GTA IV would get on my nerves but when installing right from disc the data's already there.
YMMV but it depends on certain things. Maybe not torrenting since I can always buy the retail later if I enjoy what I torrented enough. Especially for games since where are all the demos?