Battlefield 3 Clubhouse

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

You gotta hit a small FAST deer.

My weapon of choice... a car. Allows for off season hunting as well!

[ShiBDiB]

This beta is going to make me cancel my preorder just out of hate for metro

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by ShiBDiB

This beta is going to make me cancel my preorder just out of hate for metro

Then cancel it and STFU. Enough with the complaining from everyone.

[MT Alex]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

30-30 is the repeater that won the west. Sure their are better/stronger rounds. I agree. But with a good well placed shot its enough for most common game......Truth of the matter is you have to be a better shot with a 30-30 then you do say a 30.06 Its all shot placement. Your brother proved it.

It's not so much about shot placement here as distance to target, but yes, few rifles have shot more deer and Injuns as the old 30-30.

Husqvarna Imperial 7mm Mag, here. Triple beam mauser action. So damn nice.



I have an old Springfield with the peep, too. You don't see many .30-06s or .270s around here, anymore. Once the magnum cartridges came out, they petered out.

[GullyFoyle]

New faq up on Battlelog

Spoiler

FAQ
Why isn't there an amored vehicle on Op Metro?

There are no vehicles in Operarion Metro on any platform. For balance issues in the Alpha Trial, it was removed.

Changing display name?

If they have changed your ORIGIN name then your name on Battlelog will update as well but it will be a while before it does that and you'll need to play some games.

Worst case is that it won't show your new name until Retail when Battlelog will be cleared of BETA content and started fresh.

Patch please, to many aimbotters today!

A patch wouldn't remove aimbots or hacks.
Punkbuster is disabled during the Open BETA but we are monitoring what hacks are being used.

Battlefield 3 D3D Device Error Intel GMA 4500M.

Intel GMA 4500m is not supported. It only supports DirectX 10.0, not 10.1 which is the minimum requirements: http://www.battlefield.com/battlefield3/1/beta [battlefield.com]

Your active soldier is not ready for duty?

Hi!

There is a problem with your Origin ID. You might try logging out from Battlelog and then logging back in. If that doesn't work then contact Origin support and they can help you.

Update from the team #7 is now up on Battlelog

Spoiler

By: zh1nt0 Posted: 17 hours ago 366 Comments
Today's first Battlelog update will go live at 09.00 CEST, that's in about 50 minutes. Downtime is expected to be up to 30 minutes. This affects Battlefield 3 PC Open Beta Online play.

Fixes include:

• Moderator icon has been added on the forums for moderators.
• Players with rank 45 will now recieve the correct icon on their stats page
• Improved the scroll handling in the Server Browser
• Added more patches for Leaderboards for Xbox 360 and PS3
• More accurate ping now shows up in the server browser
• More accurate number of players now show up in the server browser

Battlefieldo - BF3, A True Sequel to BF2? Yes

Spoiler

Before reading this article, it’s necessary to watch this video

Ever since the announcement of Battlefield 3 at the start of 2011, DICE have been stating it as the true sequel to Battlefield 2. The franchise was built on large battles giving the player a wide selection of tools to use at their disposal. Ever since Battlefield 2, this has been somewhat unseen in the franchise. Many of us veteran to the series will never forget those large online battles on 1942's El Alamein or the dense frag-fest through the tight corridors of BF2's Strike at Karkand. With this being so far in the past, there is a high amount of scepticism on whether Battlefield 3 will not only bring back the Battlefield experience, but push it to the next level. Last week, Myself and our team had the chance to extensively play test Caspian Border on 64 player conquest mode. It was through this experience that I grasped the true essence of what Battlefield 3 will bring us.

At first glance, Caspian may look small but it’s far from that

Back around E3, EA/DICE released the first Multiplayer footage of Battlefield 3, showing the map Operation Metro (The map we all either Hate or Love at this point). Along with this was a playable demo. This small, infantry only level has been the mascot of Battlefield 3 to the public. Now I don’t want to be critical, but as a long term Battlefield Veteran (Hell I even played this series when it was called Codename Eagle), I feel this was a poor decision. Perhaps it was to show off the Infantry aspect to oogle the eyes of the Call of Duty players or make it a easier build to demo the base features, but needless to say it doesn’t hold through to what Battlefield is.

I was involved in the Alpha trial and I enjoyed Operation Metro quite a bit, but there was something missing in it. Like most of the community of gamers eagerly waiting the release of this game, clinging to any new video that is released, I was uncertain if Battlefield 3 would really be the true sequel to Battlefield 2. Once I stepped foot into Caspian Border, I knew this was indeed the Sequel I’ve been waiting years to play. There were Jets flying over head, the sound of tanks treads crumbling through trees in the distance and my squad mate saying voice commands like "There is a big fucking tank over there!"

See that bush soldier? Better prone there with your RPG because a big fucking tank is heading to your position!

With the Open Beta of Battlefield 3 released, there is a lot of complaints about Battlefield 3 from the community. I wanted to write this article to send the word out not to worry and be patient. Operation Metro on 32 player rush is not a true Battlefield 3 Experience in my honest opinion. Yes it has amazing weapon damage and tight infantry combat but playing Caspian Border was a totally different experience and is exactly what 90% of Battlefield fans are waiting for. It’s a shame that it wasn’t made the default Beta map. But perhaps that is due to server related issues.

Caspian Border is not even the largest map in Battlefield 3, and from playing it I was amazed at how huge it was. The flying area was almost triple to what the regular area was, making it easy to take your jet to the outskirts and line up a strafing run on an unsuspecting tank column. Even when on infantry, the level of detail with small rocky areas with grass and bushes was absolutely mind blowing. Whether you are in a helicopter, on foot or taking a flag with a tank you felt a role in this large battle going on. Playing the game on this map really made me admire the features. While you pull G’s on tight corners in the jet, your players breath can be heard heaving. When DICE says BF3 is about immersion, they’ve nailed it spot on. There was nothing more intense then watching a tank battle obliterate a nook of forest with a Cobra helicopter swooping in low to finish off those who survived.

For three days, EA/DICE had Caspian Border servers online for the PC Version. Now they are down and with only 10 days left in the Open Beta, there are hundreds of forum threads popping up for people wanting to get back into Caspian Border. At this point it seems unlikely that it will make a comeback, But I can’t help but hope it does because this map is a true example of what Battlefield 3 is. Having played it, I now even find it somewhat difficult to step back into Operation Metro, because that map makes Battlefield 3 feel like a shooter, rather then an all out battlefield. Although, the final release is only a little more then 3 weeks away. We will see what happens for the remainder of Open Beta. But if you are sceptical, don’t worry, Battlefield 3 really is the true sequel to Battlefield 2. It’s been well worth the wait.

HardOCP - Battlefield 3 Open Beta Performance and Image Quality

Spoiler

The limited time open beta for Battlefield 3 started last week, and we've spent some time with it. Performance is quite a wild ride in this beta, and it doesn't even have the full graphics the retail version will, but we'll examine it closely to show you how your video cards might stack up when Battlefield 3 finally launches in a few weeks.

Introduction

DICE's Battlefield franchise is one of the best know shooter series in PC gaming. Beginning in 2002 with the World War II shooter Battlefield 1942, the series has had at least six full-length games, several smaller downloadable games, and several expansion packs. In about three weeks, the next big title in the series, Battlefield 3, will be released. In lieu of a pre-release demo, EA has made access to a beta build of the game public. The beta began on September 29th and is set to end on October 10th.

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Battlefield 3 Public Beta

Though the code appears to be of early beta (or even alpha) quality, and it is missing some graphics features, the game is surprisingly demanding of processing horsepower, including CPU and GPU. We know the performance situation is very likely to change once the retail game is released, but we wanted to get some data and screenshots for our readers for the public beta.

The Technology

Battlefield 3 is powered by EA/DICE's Frostbite 2 engine. The PC version of the Frostbite 2 engine supports 64-bit processors and Microsoft's DirectX 11 technology. In fact, DirectX 9 is not supported at all, and so the game will not run in Windows XP. Battlefield 3, and its beta, require either Windows Vista or Windows 7.

Frostbite 2 and Battlefield 3 support such graphics features as tile-based deferred shading via DirectCompute, Morphological AA (MLAA) also via DirectCompute, radiosity lighting, bokeh depth of field (DoF), and ambient occlusion in both SSAO and HBAO formats. One of the most anticipated graphical features of the game is its supposedly more realistically destructible environments.

We will have more detailed information when the retail game launches. For now, what is important is that (1.) Battlefield 3's premium platform is the PC, (2.) Frostbite 2 is native to DirectX 11 on the PC, and (3.) this public beta is one of the most graphically demanding DX11 games we've seen in a while.

Test Setup

For our test system platform we are using an ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution motherboard with an Intel Core i7 920 overclocked to 3.6GHz, and 6GB of Corsair DDR3-1600. For the power supply, we will be using a CoolerMaster Real Power Pro 1250W.

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For all three NVIDIA-based video cards in this evaluation, we are using NVIDIA's GeForce/ION Driver 285.38 Beta package, dated 26 September 2011. For the three AMD-based video cards in this evaluation, we are using AMD's Catalyst 11.10 Preview driver package, dated 26 September August 2011. These driver versions were specifically launched to improve performance in the BF3 open beta.

Performance Testing

Performance in the BF3 open beta varies to a great extent. The two available maps are large, and performance can vary significantly between one part of either map and any other part. Thus, testing the BF3 open beta was a tremendously frustrating experience. Due to the nature of this being a multiplayer only map without the full-game's features, we were unable to reproduce a testing run with anything remotely resembling consistency. In the end, we were forced to just play the game for a while on each video card while adjusting settings to make sure it was playable everywhere we tested to find the highest playable settings in the maps offered.

For this process, we chose to focus on the "Operation Métro" map. Taking place in Paris, France, this map focuses on Paris' famed Métropolitain rapid transit system. While it focuses on the mostly-underground trains, it also takes us to wide open parks and narrower urban corridors. To record performance, we played for about 7 minutes, recording framerates with FRAPS, looking for an average framerate between 38 and 42. This envelope will likely change for the full version of the game, since it will have more graphics features. For now, within a few FPS of 40 is where we were looking to be.

In general, the subterranean areas seem to perform better than the above-ground areas. It's not consistent though, as there are sometimes large firefights underground which can drag performance down. The game seems to also enjoy randomly spawning players underground regardless of whether or not that is where the action is. All of these things make performance testing in the beta a bit frustrating to get the most consistent results.

Highest Playable Settings

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The BF3 open beta was playable on the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 at 2560x1600 with 16X AF, no AA, and mostly Ultra settings. We did have to disable motion blur and reduce the shadows setting to medium, but other detail settings were left at Ultra. In disabling MSAA, we also disabled "Post AA", which is MLAA.

The Radeon HD 6970 performed similarly. At 2560x1600, we disabled MSAA and MLAA, as well as motion blur in order to bring framerates up to an average of about 40 FPS and make the game playable. With the HD 6970, we did not have to lower the shadow quality setting. Both of these video cards gave us very high framerates at 1920x1200 with 4X MSAA and maximum in-game settings selected.

The GeForce GTX 570 and the AMD Radeon HD 6950 were both playable with 4X MSAA, Medium "Post AA" (MLAA), 16X AF and Ultra settings at 1920x1200. We didn't have to disable motion blur or change the shadow quality setting for either of these two video cards at this resolution.

Running at 1680x1050 was not a challenge for either the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti or the AMD Radeon HD 6870. They were both playable at that resolution with maximum in-game settings at a very high level of performance. For our highest playable settings, we chose to increase the resolution to 1920x1200 and tweak settings from there. Neither of these two inexpensive video cards was playable in the entire test level with maximum settings at 1920x1200, so we had to disable MSAA and MLAA on both. With the GeForce GTX 560 Ti installed, we also had to disable motion blur. With the Radeon HD 6870, disabling AA was all we had to do to make the game playable at 1920x1200 with Ultra in-game settings selected.

Individual Performance

Because we were not able to reproduce the same (or even similar) testing procedure for each video card, performance graphs will be presented individually for each of our six video cards. All of these graphs represent data gathered using each video card's respective highest playable settings, as described in the table above.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580

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With mostly Ultra settings selected and AA disabled at 2560x1600, performance was relatively smooth with the GeForce GTX 580. We saw an average FPS very close to our 40 FPS target, and it only dipped below 30 slightly and infrequently.

AMD Radeon HD 6970

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Like with the GeForce GTX 580, performance dipped below 30 FPS infrequently with the Radeon HD 6970. Our average FPS was higher here, but that doesn't mean much with performance as unpredictable as it is in this beta.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570

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The GeForce GTX 570 ran beautifully at 1920x1200 with Ultra settings selected. Choosing Ultra automatically enables 4X MSAA and Medium Post AA (but you have to restart the game to see those changes). Framerates rarely dipped below 30 FPS, and when they did, it wasn't far. Our average was within 1 FPS of where we wanted to be, as we spent most of this test above ground.

AMD Radeon HD 6950

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The Radeon HD 6950 performed a little better than the GeForce GTX 570, though it is hard to be conclusive about it given the state of this beta. We didn't see a single drop below 30 FPS during testing with Ultra settings @ 1920x1200 using the HD 6950.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti

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The GeForce GTX 560 Ti was the most challenged video card in this test. At 1920x1200, we had to disable AA and Motion Blur, but other settings were left at Ultra. We saw occasional dips below 30 FPS. Our average framerate was acceptable and the gameplay experience was smooth enough, so we were not compelled to reduce settings any further.

AMD Radeon HD 6870

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Again, the AMD video card in this price segment had slightly better performance than the NVIDIA counterpart. The Radeon HD 6870 was playable with Ultra settings at 1920x1200, but we had to disable AA, including both MSAA and MLAA. Framerate dips below 30 FPS were rare, but they did happen. Our average framerate was right in target, and the resulting gameplay was very smooth and enjoyable.

Image Quality

We were unable to take screenshots with any degree of consistency due to the unpredictable nature of the game and its spawning system. Add to that that we have to restart the game to apply some settings, and side-by-side comparisons have proven to be practically impossible to acquire in the BF3 open beta. For this image quality section, we are going to show you a collection of screenshots at various in-game setting levels. We'll look at Ultra, High, Medium, and Low. The following linked images are JPEG compressed to save bandwidth, but we used high quality compression. We aren't after fine detail in these screenshots as much as we are after a comparison of the overall visual experience the different graphics levels provide. We will have a more in-depth look at image quality in the full version game evaluation.

Ultra

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High

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Medium

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Low

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Image Quality Analysis

The most obvious difference here is the color tone. With Ultra and High selected, the color is washed out somewhat in the bright sun. There is a lower level of contrast with Ultra and High selected than with Low and Medium. Looking at the third image in each series, we can also see that there is a difference in the Depth of Field quality. In ultra, the focused area is clear and well-defined. In high, some clarity is lost in the focused part of the image. With medium selected, it is hard to tell what is supposed to be in focus. Finally, with low selected, depth of field appears not to be enabled at all. The character has just been hit, but the resulting blurred screen did not happen as it did with medium, high, or ultra selected.

Beyond those differences, anti-aliasing is a big issue. With ultra selected, 4X MSAA and Medium MLAA is enabled. Going down to high disabled MSAA but keeps MLAA at medium. Selecting medium moves MLAA down to low, and selecting low disables MLAA. This is a game that benefits a great deal from anti-aliasing. Unlike Battlefield: Bad Company 2, it appears that anti-aliasing happens after the HDR stage of post-processing. Some gamers will recall that aliasing is nearly defeated by HDR in BFBC2. Edges that appear in front of bright light sources would appear jagged and as if AA is ignoring them. In the BF3 beta, that problem doesn't happen. Of course different people have difference levels of sensitivity to aliasing, but we found that AA was quite welcome and effective in the BF3 beta. We will, of course, have a lot more information and analysis on AA in Battlefield 3 when the full game launches.

Beta Is As Beta Does

Wow, does this game ever feel and behave like a beta. Though we played for several hours, we were hard-pressed to find results even remotely consistent, even with the same video card installed. First we'd get spawned in the underground train stations and get our settings adjusted. Then we'd spawn out in the open and have to adjust them again. It took a significant amount of going back-and-forth between different servers through several different rounds to make sure each video card was tested on all relevant parts of the Operation Metro map. That is also excluding the many crashed and random disconnects we experienced, and the fact that we had to restart the game client on purpose several times for each test so that we could adjust settings for the sake of tuning performance.

At the end of the testing day, the impression we are left with is that performance was so inconsistent, it actually seems rather hard to predict how the full version game will behave. We know that some graphics features are missing in the beta client, and we know that a great deal of content is missing as well. This game looks like it is going to be of a simply tremendous scale. We are certainly anxious to see what the retail build will look like. It almost certainly has to be better. As unstable and flaky as the beta client has been for us, it is hard to imagine having a more frustrating experience.

The Bottom Line

Performance in the Battlefield 3 public beta inconsistent. The multiplayer nature of the beta made it impractical to objectively compare performance between video cards, but we did see some relatively repetitive behavior among video card brands. In general, we had better performance using video cards equipped with AMD GPUs than we did with NVIDIA GPUs. We downloaded the newest beta drivers from both GPU makers specifically released for this game. We tested each video card thoroughly, and the results with AMD video cards were faster, but not by much in this open beta.

On the official BF3 Blog, EA/DICE staffer Joe Ellis pointed out that "The beta won’t include all the graphics features which will make it in the final version". When the final retail build is released, everything we've seen so far could be turned around completely. But for now, single-GPU gamers with AMD Radeon HD 6000 series video cards will probably see slightly better performance than gamers with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 500 series counterparts.

<Follow the original link to see all the charts and graphs which accompany the article>

Videos of the day:

Battlefield 3 - Flying Tanks On Caspian Border [HD]
BF3 - beta Jet gameplay (watch for re-genning health)
Battlefield 3 Beta MAV Massacre! (Roadkills + C4)

[WarhammerTX]

Originally Posted by MT Alex

It's not so much about shot placement here as distance to target, but yes, few rifles have shot more deer and Injuns as the old 30-30.

Husqvarna Imperial 7mm Mag, here. Triple beam mauser action. So damn nice.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...0129f1f8e8.jpg

I have an old Springfield with the peep, too. You don't see many .30-06s or .270s around here, anymore. Once the magnum cartridges came out, they petered out.

Nice

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by ShiBDiB

This beta is going to make me cancel my preorder just out of hate for metro

Have you ever played in a beta before? It's for testing and getting a general idea of the game. And if you have fun, play till your heart is content. But since many things are not available in betas, don't sit and grind it if you are no longer having fun. Because if you do, you will get a bad opinion of the game, and usually once someone has a bad opinion of a game, it's impossible to go back.

Personal example for me is Age of Conan. Played it in Beta loved it, played it at release and loved it. But around level 50 quests were few and far between. So I started a new character to give them time to patch in new ones. Made it to 60 with that character and finally just couldn't grind anymore. AoC has seen tons of improvements since then, and reading about it I love it. but when I go back it just lacks fun, simply because of my previous experience. Since then, I do not sit and grind games that are starting to lose that fun factor.

[ShiBDiB]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Have you ever played in a beta before? It's for testing and getting a general idea of the game. And if you have fun, play till your heart is content. But since many things are not available in betas, don't sit and grind it if you are no longer having fun. Because if you do, you will get a bad opinion of the game, and usually once someone has a bad opinion of a game, it's impossible to go back.

Personal example for me is Age of Conan. Played it in Beta loved it, played it at release and loved it. But around level 50 quests were few and far between. So I started a new character to give them time to patch in new ones. Made it to 60 with that character and finally just couldn't grind anymore. AoC has seen tons of improvements since then, and reading about it I love it. but when I go back it just lacks fun, simply because of my previous experience. Since then, I do not sit and grind games that are starting to lose that fun factor.

This isnt even a "Beta" tho. It's a stress test/demo promo free play etc..

I've beta tested many games where you report bugs in a bugtracker and are in direct contact with developers, that is a beta. This is what the ill informed see as a beta but in reality is part stress test and mostly a pr stunt

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by ShiBDiB

This isnt even a "Beta" tho. It's a stress test/demo promo free play etc..

I've beta tested many games where you report bugs in a bugtracker and are in direct contact with developers, that is a beta. This is what the ill informed see as a beta but in reality is part stress test and mostly a pr stunt

Anything prior to a gold master is a Alpha/Beta. Sorry. Welcome to the city of wrong. Population you.

[DanishDevil]

Just got a collateral with the SV98

[EastCoasthandle]

This person claims there is aim assets in the beta.
Video

[assaulter_99]

So much sh*t nonsense going on about the beta, I thought I might share a good song with ya BF fans, just listen to it and relax some. Folks need it around here! You might wanna dlod it before it gets old!

*Dunno if its quite right to post this here, but since its been uploaded on Youtube, so why not?*

BF3 Song

[boise49ers]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Have you ever played in a beta before? It's for testing and getting a general idea of the game. And if you have fun, play till your heart is content. But since many things are not available in betas, don't sit and grind it if you are no longer having fun. Because if you do, you will get a bad opinion of the game, and usually once someone has a bad opinion of a game, it's impossible to go back.

I totally agree. Like Shib I hate the map, but I just don't play it. I struggle in the tunnel to see anything. I'll dink around with it when bored,
but I'm just waiting for the release. The old maps they have I love and there will be some new added good maps.
I didn't care much for the BFBC2 beta map either, but loved the game.

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

Originally Posted by ShiBDiB

This beta is going to make me cancel my preorder just out of hate for metro

I hate Metro and Rush but I've learned to cope.

[Scrizz]

since the whole game is rush and on metro, I'm going to cancel my non-existent pre-order.....

I don't know many games that were bug-free and full-featured BEFORE release.....

[EastCoasthandle]

Here is a Beta Performance/IQ review. This is using the latest drivers

[johnspack]

Well, darn, didn't know the beta was multiplayer only. Have no idea about gameplay yet, so I'll probably get slaughtered as soon as I can actually get in a server. Had it for 2 days now, and still haven't even seen it yet! Must be awful darn good for so many to put up with so much!

[johnnyfiive]

Originally Posted by ShiBDiB

This isnt even a "Beta" tho. It's a stress test/demo promo free play etc..

I've beta tested many games where you report bugs in a bugtracker and are in direct contact with developers, that is a beta. This is what the ill informed see as a beta but in reality is part stress test and mostly a pr stunt

BF3 beta is not a "stress test/demo promo" at all. BF3 is a game that has a TON of multiplayer aspects that can't be fully evaluated by a staff of developers. This beta was solely to discover and fix multiplayer bugs/glitches, which is exactly what EA/DICE are doing. How unhappy would you be if the game were released with all these bugs players are experiencing? The ENTIRE point of a beta is to find issues and fix them before release. Be happy you get to enjoy the game early, and shush up already.

[DannibusX]

Originally Posted by johnspack

Well, darn, didn't know the beta was multiplayer only. Have no idea about gameplay yet, so I'll probably get slaughtered as soon as I can actually get in a server. Had it for 2 days now, and still haven't even seen it yet! Must be awful darn good for so many to put up with so much!

In my opinion, it's awesome. It is buggy, there are balance issues. All in all, it's a great game and I'm not disappointed with the $60 I put down on it. I'll be playing on day one.

Hopefully PunkBuster is ready by then.

[johnspack]

Ug, do you have to be in the dam game to set options? I finally got in a server, was trying to set up graphics and key bindings, and get shot before I can finish. Frustrating....

[f22a4bandit]

Originally Posted by johnspack

Ug, do you have to be in the dam game to set options? I finally got in a server, was trying to set up graphics and key bindings, and get shot before I can finish. Frustrating....

Yeah, it's very annoying, but hopefully that's something that is tweaked for the final release.

I enjoyed the time I've put into it, but I'm going to wait for the full release now. I just didn't like waiting an obnoxious amount of time to join a server, and the map became boring for me very quick. However, the five minutes I was able to play on Caspian Border was enjoyable, albeit short-lived.

[mastrdrver]

Originally Posted by EastCoasthandle

This person claims there is aim assets in the beta.
Video

Then mine must be broken because I don't have that "problem". Never once.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by ShiBDiB

This isnt even a "Beta" tho. It's a stress test/demo promo free play etc..

I've beta tested many games where you report bugs in a bugtracker and are in direct contact with developers, that is a beta. This is what the ill informed see as a beta but in reality is part stress test and mostly a pr stunt

Thats what everyone thinks of every beta now days. They see a bug, throw their arms in the air and judge the final game for it. If you are doubting the purchase, cancel your pre-order and wait for reviews to see if bugs have been squashed. But a beta is a beta, it is not a demo, so they don't call it a demo. And now days it seems to many people just jump into a beta as a demo for the game.

[crazyeyesreaper]

well why shouldnt they Kurgan?

look at RAGE its out NOW and its just as BUGGY as the BF3 BETA and its a full retail release

the reason ppl bitch is because 99% of the time the problems in the beta REMAIN once the game is released and take forever for most developers to fix. or the Dev takes shortcuts to get the job done and it mucks it up worse

good example

BC2 + MOH hit detection remember that little short cut? that dicked everyone over took months for it to be back pedaled and fixed even then they only got it back to the way it originally was lolz

[1Kurgan1]

BC2 hit detection was fine at launch, somehow it got worse later, though I to this day never had a problem with it. People can be afraid of what they want, I might get struck by lightning, so I will never go outside again. I've played in a lot of Betas and almost all of the bugs have been fixed, nothing is ever perfect, and if you expect it to be, life will be a disappointment in all regards. I go by the policy, expect the worst, hope for the best, and I'm happy with most of the games I get most of the time. Also did RAGE even have a public beta? If not, how is that a decent comparison?