Help with BF3 Micro-Stuttering

[jonathan1107]

Hey guys, look @ my specs...

I've got the latest AMD drivers and a decent rig I guess... Nevertheless, I get this VERY annoying "look" micro sutter... especially when I combine mouse movement with keyboard movement...

I've noticed this quite a few times in other games too... like The Witcher 2 and sometimes crysis... When I'd face an object up close and keep looking @ it while I move around, my whole screen would micro-stutter...

I've heard like 100 different diagnostics for this situation... people saying it's the RAM... others saying it's the mouse... others say it's a driver thingy... or the games needs to be patched... and others will say "turn Hyper threading" off to solve this... Forcing V-Sync... and SO fourth ............

I'd like find someone who's had that problem and GOT IT fixed... I haven't tried turning HT off yet... I was wondering if I had to do a clean install of windows 7 if I do this... Because I never touched that particular setting before...

I just went testing... and noticed that the micro-stutter goes away when I disable v-sync... I have not tried with crossfire disabled yet...

Obviously, I'd like to keep v-sync on... image quality is just horrible when you get screen tearing all over the place... Isn't there another solution to this annoying problem???

[cadaveca]

Better CPU will give you better performance, negating any stutter. Note that its' DX11 titles that give you the issue, and DX11 titles are such that they are the most CPU-GPU communication dependant.

So it's nto aobut the CPU's crunching power..It's about everything in between the PCUs and the VGAs that really makes the difference.

[Wrigleyvillain]

Nothing drastic. HT is just a BIOS setting. "Intel Hyper Threading Technology". Definitely try that next if you haven't. Will be under "CPU Features" or something like that in your BIOS.

Your CPU is essentially the same as mine and your GPUs are better and should be powerful enough to play this game on Ultra with 4X AA. I do not notice any stutter in any game in which Im otherwise getting good fps, for the record, and presently have HT off but was thinking about turning on again cause Im pretty sure it didn't cause any issue on my system. Biut it has def been reported as a fix for those getting stutter so you should try.

Also note that with HT off you can probably run that 4Ghz with a bit less vcore.

[erocker]

Easy stuff first. What "new drivers" are you using and do you have the latest Catalyst Application Profile installed? Nothing "performance wise" with your setup should be causing stuttering if everything is working properly.

[jonathan1107]

Hmmm yeah... I do think that a better CPU would reduce the stutter... Nevertheless, that stutter goes away as soon as I turn off V-Sync... Which leads me to thinking at one point, maybe a better "v-sync" technology could fix all of this...

I have yet to try with 1 single card running with V-sync ON...

and I have yet to try with HT off... heard it helps... Apart from that, CAN'T wait to find the solution to this thing...

[cadaveca]

As far as I am concerned, the only solution is better hardware, or turning V-sync off.

I jsut recently built up an i5 760 rig and plyed with my 6950's on BC2. was ok, but very slow compared to my current gaming rig. I suppose I could try out BF3 and see what's up, but I'm pretty busy review-wise right now.

If this was an issue in all apps, then I might be concerned, but your list has me very suspect that truly, you jsut have to deal with it.


You also might want to try using just one card, and see how that works for ya. Crossfire really isn't needed for 1920x1080.

[MatTheCat]

Originally Posted by jonathan1107

Hey guys, look @ my specs...

I've got the latest AMD drivers and a decent rig I guess... Nevertheless, I get this VERY annoying "look" micro sutter... especially when I combine mouse movement with keyboard movement...

I've noticed this quite a few times in other games too... like The Witcher 2 and sometimes crysis... When I'd face an object up close and keep looking @ it while I move around, my whole screen would micro-stutter...

I've heard like 100 different diagnostics for this situation... people saying it's the RAM... others saying it's the mouse... others say it's a driver thingy... or the games needs to be patched... and others will say "turn Hyper threading" off to solve this... Forcing V-Sync... and SO fourth ............

I'd like find someone who's had that problem and GOT IT fixed... I haven't tried turning HT off yet... I was wondering if I had to do a clean install of windows 7 if I do this... Because I never touched that particular setting before...

I just went testing... and noticed that the micro-stutter goes away when I disable v-sync... I have not tried with crossfire disabled yet...

Obviously, I'd like to keep v-sync on... image quality is just horrible when you get screen tearing all over the place... Isn't there another solution to this annoying problem???

As you say, stuttering can be caused by a lot of things.

I dont have any stuttering in any of the games above but kind of lived with it for years until one day, my wireless MX1000 Logitech laser mouse ran out of batteries and I was forced to use a cheapo standard wired USB mouse.....stuttering gone! I now use a wireless Razer Mamba which polls at 1000 Hz.... (no stuttering)

.....but then, this was the remedy to my problem which may not help you a lot with yours.....however, if you are using a less than top range wireless mouse (or a really crappy wired one), then that would certainly be worth investigating.

Other than that i have read that having hyper threading enabled (should your CPU support that) causes stuttering in BF3 and have also read that a lot of people with CF configurations are getting stuttering. Looking at the card you have, you could easily do without CF and still max the game out at ~ 50-60FPS (with FSAA off) as I can do this with my overclocked 5850 (1000 MHz GPU).

I would also recommend that you force V-sync through the D3D Overrider (packaged with RivaTuner) and force triple buffering through that application as well. This has resolved all V-sync gremlins for me in the past.

[ChristTheGreat]

+1 MatTheCat, I saw someone with a Crossfire of HD5870 having micro stuttering on BF3.. Try with one card.

[Wrigleyvillain]

Yes like erocker asked what driver and CAP exactly? Latest 11.10 WHQL that just came out? Though Im still on Preview 3 + 11.9 CAP4 and I am not sure offhand what one is supposed to do for a CAP with 11.10 Official offhand.

Your CPU is plenty good I'm telling you. This is surely a crossfire-related issue but the majority of multipgpu users of both camps are fine it should be able to be rectified. Test one card and could also even test more than one crossfire bridge, at least for more thorough troubleshooting and to collect more info. But also def try HT off, it's easy and worth a shot.

And I wouldn't rule out a Windows reinstall either if you haven't done it in awhile. Old driver remnants could be hanging around despite all the "cleanings" under the sun. Hell get another used hard drive and put Windows on that if you have too much data and settings to redo. At least you'll know.

[SK-1]

Your hardware kicks-ASS. U have some configure issue.

[Wrigleyvillain]

Indeed. It's a pesky software-related issue. Sometimes I really can't blame devs for preferring consoles as hard as it is to admit.

[SK-1]

Yea. No kidding. A 360 has what...like 512mb vram?...and the game runs decent.

[Wrigleyvillain]

Well the main point is it's a controlled environment and these wierd software conflicts/problems aren't an issue. MS makes sure of it.

[CJCerny]

Does the stutter go away when you turn down the resolution and/or quality that you are attempting to run the game at?

[jonathan1107]

Ok guys, here's a few answers to your questions and remarks:

Yes I did try the d3d overrider thingy... Forcing V-Sync and all... Didn't fix it (that was with crossfire on and V-Sync...)

My rig should eat that game alive... yet.... the stutter appears (when v-sync is on)... My mouse is the CM storm Sentinel ... I can go from 200dpi to 5600dpi... and up to 1000 for USB report rate...

So no, I don't think the mouse should be blamed... Altho, maybe the game devs develop their games for standard mouses... I have yet to try with my wife's "standard" mouse to see what happens...

And this stutter I'm talkin about... has always shown up when the current factors were in place:

CF = on
Vsync = on
I'm in a "closed" area... (like in between 2 walls) looking at brick lines...
and the stutter often shows up more if I move MOUSE + KEYBOARD arrows...

My gut feeling about this is that it has to do with HT... my RAM or even my CPU speed... I remember that for a while I lost the stutter in Dragon Age 2... when I upped my OC to 4ghz... Lately, my temps have risen a little (enough to get me concerned) ... so I dropped back to my original 3.6ghz OC to keep the temps around 60c @ max load...

I have The 11.10 drivers and CAP 4 (the latest)... AND BTW... for those of you who have read that BF3 and HT are known to have issues together... CAP 4 is said "to fix the stuttering issues in BF3 with CF..."

I just wish I could solve the mystery... I'm leaving for work now... so tonight I will be turning HT off and trying single card config to see what happens (with v-sync on...)

Turning HT off won't F... my system will it?

[cadaveca]

Turning HT off is fine. But in that case, you should have got a i5 760. There should be no need WHATSOEVER to turn off HT.

Bloody server keeps crashing..many people have problems with the game itself crashing...

Kinda hard to blame fault on hardware when the app is clearly broken, but I will say that your cards will perform much better on an Intel SKT1155 rig. No matter what anyone else says, that is 100% fact.

So, CPU is a bottleneck for dual 6950's...otherwise, changing CPU would make ZERO difference. However, in reality, it can make a very large difference, so clearly your CPU isn't 100% up to pushing those cards fully.

[Wrigleyvillain]

Should be no need, no. If that is really a bug then DICE will patch. Though I was surprised when I heard that as the game seems very well threaded and I'm pretty certain I got no issues from HT on. Need to enable again and see. It's really just hearsay at this point but OP should try it.

No, HT just turns off the additional 4 virtual cores. Performance monitor will show 4 little graphs instead of 8. You will experience zero difference generally at least gaming and doing "normal" stuff like browsing web. Except if it happens to fix your stuttering then I'd call that a "difference".

As for Cadaveca's comment re i5 vs i7 thats generally true but his CPU also has unlocked multi. And the i7s also have the 2:12 RAM ratio.

And yeah "the app" has issues like any game at release but it's way too much of a unfair stretch to call it "broken". Most of us are fine with no stuttering or other game-breaking issues. And lets not forget I say that having had to work around the Q bind problem with Autokey.

[Gas2100]

turning HT off solved my micro stuttering has for anyone else i no with a 4 core 8 threads cpu too

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Wrigleyvillain

And yeah "the app" has issues like any game at release but it's way too much of a unfair stretch to call it "broken". Most of us are fine with no stuttering or other game-breaking issues. And lets not forget I say that having had to work around the Q bind problem with Autokey.

I'm glad you have relatively few issues. I am not so fortunate, with having to download the gmae 5 times total before it even started to work, which means a total of over 50GB I downloaded so far for one game. Then, there's the server drop-outs, the flicker, the pausing(not stutter), the crashes, and numerous other problems that ahve nothing to do with anything but the sub-par coding and quality assurance.


Al lthat said, unless it works perfectly, for everyone, then yes, it is broken. Now, do I midn that it is broken, or am I angry about it? Heck NO!!! Even with the issues, I enjoy it a tonne, but that fact is....


It is broken.

Now, judging system performance and trying to pinpoint problems with broken software is jsut asking to get a headache, if not go mental.

All of the OP's problems are related to DirectX 11. It's very possible DirectX is corrupted. Such things can cause issues like this. However, as i mentioned before, running DirectX 11-based applications, while using Multi-GPU rendering, is very system bandwidth intensive. the truth of the matter is that eve nthe fastest current hardware still has issues meeting the bandwidth needs of Multi-GPU technology, such that IOMMU fnction is rumoured to be integrated into Next-Gen GPUs, as a way to circumvent this very real problem.

And I didn't start that rumour, but I am very nearly the only person here on TPU saying that system bandwidth is such situations is important, and that many systems are just plain old inadequate. Clearly understand this problem is something that is not often explained, and understandably so, as DirectX 11 itself is quite new.

To get the very bet DirectX 11 gamnig experience, you need either a Bulldozer chip, or Sandybridge. Sure, you can get by with less...but that's all it will ever be...getting by.


Will it solve the OP's stutter? Honestly, I cannot say for sure, but what I can say, is that I am using the same videocards, and the same drivers, and the same OS. I do not have the same problem, so it's soemthing to look at, when all the other possibilities have been explored.

The OP has stated that he has exhausted nearly every other attempt to avoid the problem in the past, so clearly he needs to start looking "outside the box"...even the turning off HT thing was in his OP as something he tried. I am not sure why peopel are stil leven mentioning it when he siad he already tried...

I used to complain about Microstutter..I do not any longer. I DID solve my stutter issues.

[Gas2100]

in his OP he didnt say hed tried it, his last post was actually him asking if turning HT off would F his system..and it wouldnt.

[Anusha]

install the latest 11.10. you should not be playing BF3 with 11.9 anyways.
if it doesn't fix it, disable HT. but HT doesn't make it microstutter. It makes it do heavy stutter. Microstuttering issues, if any, should be resolved with the driver update.

This is what HT causes.

With Hyperthreading
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlnoTRxCljY

Without Hyperthreading
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjKrtG4q4Y

See how the FPS is fluctuating with HT? This is not microstuttering. This is some huge ass massive stuttering.

[xenocide]

Turning HTing off will fix it. My friend had the same issue and once he disabled HTing it disappeared.

[jonathan1107]

Thank you guys for all the input... @ Anusha: I have the latest drivers... Read carefully... I mentionned I had 11.10 drivers with cap4 (the latest)...

As for HT being turned off... I never tried this alternative before... I did A LOT of research on the matter and my conclusion was that it "hurts my pride" to turn the thing off knowing I spent extra to have it...

I could have bought an AMD for WAY cheaper and have no HT... and I gotta say I'm very dissapointed to discover that most of the time HT hurts pc game performance compared to when it's off...

I don't know if future dx11 titles will use HT to increase performance...

@ Cadaveca: I totally agree with you about the CPU having a HUGE influence on how well 2x6950 perform... I don't consider my i7 875k (unlocked and OCed) to be a MAJOR bottleneck for the cards... Actually, far from that...

Altho, my MOBO might just require an upgrade sometime soon... But when I do upgrade it, I'll also get a new CPU... My mobo limits my 2x cards to 8x bandwith each ... instead of 16x... Altho I hear it's not much of a perf loss ... Somewhere between 10 to 17% perf drop...

I'm goin to try with single card config with v-sync on and I'll try HT off if it doesn't fix it... I'm doing that in the next minutes... I WILL POST my results in a few mins...

But like I said, IT HURTS my pride to turn off HT, that i7 875k cost me 330$, I was not well aware of how better RAW cpus... like AMD's 6 cores perform just as well... without the HT issues...

Be back in a few mins with results

[xenocide]

HTing off is the only solution. My friend runs a GTX580, and tried different setups with different cards with no real change. Once he turned HTing off, fixed. Who gives a shit if you paid extra for it? If it makes the game borderline unplayable, it's not worth having on...

[Darkleoco]

The mobo limits I would consider quite a bit of performance loss for the cards but maybe thats just me....