Engineered Avian Flu

[KainXS]

A researcher by the name Ron Fouchier experimented with Avian Flu commonly contracted by birds(Ferrets in general) and has created a human contactable, airborne version of H5N1 and he wants to publish to the world how he made it. Like Typical H5N1 the mortality rate is about 50%

Locked up in the bowels of the medical faculty building here and accessible to only a handful of scientists lies a man-made flu virus that could change world history if it were ever set free.

The virus is an H5N1 avian influenza strain that has been genetically altered and is now easily transmissible between ferrets, the animals that most closely mimic the human response to flu. Scientists believe it's likely that the pathogen, if it emerged in nature or were released, would trigger an influenza pandemic, quite possibly with many millions of deaths.

In a 17th floor office in the same building, virologist Ron Fouchier of Erasmus Medical Center calmly explains why his team created what he says is "probably one of the most dangerous viruses you can make"—and why he wants to publish a paper describing how they did it. Fouchier is also bracing for a media storm. After he talked to ScienceInsider yesterday, he had an appointment with an institutional press officer to chart a communication strategy.

Fouchier's paper is one of two studies that have triggered an intense debate about the limits of scientific freedom and that could portend changes in the way U.S. researchers handle so-called dual-use research: studies that have a potential public health benefit but could also be useful for nefarious purposes like biowarfare or bioterrorism.

now thats some scary shit right there.


http://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...dia-storm.html

[erocker]

People like this should have no place in society. Maybe they belong more in an underground lab in a volcano on the moon.

[KainXS]

I would feel safer if he was on the moon

yea

[3volvedcombat]

Loads round into M40A5 and aims @ target.

[adulaamin]

wow... he creates a deadly virus then wants to show the world how he created it.. yey for terrorists...

You hope this was planned to find a cure to H5N1. Or else the 17th floor needs a visit about right now... with some G3's and granade launchers. Hollywood to the rescue.

[WhiteLotus]

Originally Posted by adulaamin

wow... he creates a deadly virus then wants to show the world how he created it.. yey for terrorists...

Do you have any idea what it takes to "make" a virus?

Hint: a lot of money, time, facilities, skill, patients, and test subjects.

[cadaveca]

Considering they've been playing with H5N1 for at least 20+ years, I don't see what the big deal is. It's been known that the human-active pathogen could infect and kill ferrets for at least that long, too, so it only makes sense that the reverse is possible.

I can point you to this article:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...66093489900049

which states that they have been testing, and proven, that there is a link between ferrets and humans, from a study published in 1989, 22 years ago. All that this current paper shows is that it's possible that the current "outbreak" of H5N1 could have been caused by mishandling of lab samples, and shows exactly HOW it could be done, which, technically, is nothing new. The only issue, and why this is in the news, is that the details of the paper are far too specific.



As far as I am concerned, there's all this info in various palces already, so I do not understand why putting it all together in one place, matters. Just who are these "bad guys" we are so worried about, anyway?

[AphexDreamer]

Instead of waiting for it to happen naturally and have it surprise the heck out of us we've managed to do it for nature and contain it.

Now we can look for ways to treat it so that when it does get out (Naturally and hopefully not artificially) we can be prepared for it.

I'd be mad pissed if he kept it to himself, not to mention if he sold it to the wrong people or released it himself.

So I'm glad this guy not only did what he did but is willing to share his research. If we can make it, it only makes sense that we will know how to destroy it.

God gave us the ability to create, now expect us to play God (We'll try and be safe about it)

[Widjaja]

Jeez, why can't they aspire to achieve something like an airbourne virus which cures diseases rather than kill off people.

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Widjaja

Jeez, why can't they aspire to achieve something like an airbourne virus which cures diseases rather than kill off people.

They didn't make the Virus they just made it capable to use Humans as a host.

[Widjaja]

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

They didn't make the Virus they just made it capable to use Humans as a host.

Ah I just saw a poster say "make" a virus so I assumed it was man made.

[Kreij]

Originally Posted by Widjaja

Ah I just saw a poster say "make" a virus so I assumed it was man made.

It is a man made virus. I did not exist in nature until they created it, even if it is a modification to an existing virus.

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

God gave us the ability to create, now expect us to play God (We'll try and be safe about it)

The difference between being God and playing god is that the former knows what He's doing.

[eidairaman1]

Fouchier will be sniped

Originally Posted by KainXS

A researcher by the name Ron Fouchier experimented with Avian Flu commonly contracted by birds(Ferrets in general) and has created a human contactable, airborne version of H5N1 and he wants to publish to the world how he made it. Like Typical H5N1 the mortality rate is about 50%



now thats some scary shit right there.


http://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...dia-storm.html

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Kreij

It is a man made virus. I did not exist in nature until they created it, even if it is a modification to an existing virus.



The difference between being God and playing god is that the former knows what He's doing.

Perhaps the former had to make mistakes before being good at what he does?

Then like wise, we too will have to learn from our mistakes to reach his status.

Question is, will we survive those mistakes?

Either way the ramifications will be grand to say the least.

[Easy Rhino]

thankfully my god like immune system will keep me safe. with all you suckers dead and gone think of all the bandwidths i will have!!!!!!! mwuahahah!!

[Solaris17]

I see both the good and bad in this. But i seriously doubt this will be some public release how to make this isnt going to be something you can google. It will probably be more of a internal science doc that can be viewed from diffirent labs in france and shit. That being said if this was indeed the case and im assuming it is I dont see the harm in it. Learning how to make a virus like this in the right hands (All the major labs globaly) is like a lego set if they know how to genetically modify it to be worse it may show them what to genetically modify so it can be cured/vaccinne. The issue here isnt that he wants to publish it imo. What I think people dont realize is that it was made here. Think of it like a science NDA Publishing it would let labs in other places see what he did which they currently dont.

[Easy Rhino]

i was really hoping the avian flu would allow the birds to take over the planet. i mean, come on.

[DannibusX]

Captain Trips

[adulaamin]

Originally Posted by WhiteLotus

Do you have any idea what it takes to "make" a virus?

Hint: a lot of money, time, facilities, skill, patients, and test subjects.

MONEY: a terrorist group hell-bent on "raising terror" can accumulate the amount required...

TIME: terrorist groups have all the time in the world...

FACILITIES: terrorists are really good at improvising which would also make the money problem less of a problem (my grammar sucks hahaha bear with me )...

SKILL: I would bet they have/could find people skilled enough...

PATIENTS/TEST SUBJECTS: us (what better way to test it than to release it at some highly populated place and let the police/government/hospitals count how many are infected/dead to see how deadly it is)

it wouldn't be that easy to "make" the virus but once they know how to what's gonna stop them from trying to make one..

[Inceptor]

So, we're back to the perrennial problem with scientific inquiry:
Someone discovers something, or how to do something, 'interesting', and in the spirit of sharing and receiving feedback from their peers they want to share that 'interesting' something. Which may help them gain notoriety and draw more grant money their way, so that they can continue their inquiry relatively unhindered.

On the surface it seems so innocent. The problem isn't in the purity of the intent, the problem is in the unintended consequences brought about by the disclosure.

Now, here's the triple whammy (or modal conundrum):

Is it possible someone will actually 'cultivate' such a virus and spread it? Yes, it's possible.
Is it probable someone will actually 'cultivate such a virus and spread it? Unknown.
Is it the objectively right thing to do, to disseminate the information, to make it possible? The consensus is No so far.

You could make an analogy to other discoveries, but this one has a path to low budget mayhem, of some kind, by all kinds of undesirables.
Sure, the general principles for building a nuclear weapon are available to those who want it, but getting the plutonium or uranium and building the thing is almost impossible and incredibly expensive, so no widespread threat there from 'terrorists'.

Should the paper be published? If it had not been brought up in a news factoid like this (and no doubt many places elsewhere) it might have been published with little fanfare. But now? There's a strong reason to say no.
Anyway, aside from that, I think if Mr Fouchier makes a big stink about this he'll find himself out of funding, or out of a job eventually, since it'll look like he wants to publish a paper on a how-to guide to creating a biological weapon. That's soft headed idealist thinking, to actually think such a paper as this is a good idea, especially considering the way things have been for the last 10 years.

[kid41212003]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Considering they've been playing with H5N1 for at least 20+ years, I don't see what the big deal is. It's been known that the human-active pathogen could infect and kill ferrets for at least that long, too, so it only makes sense that the reverse is possible.

I can point you to this article:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...66093489900049

which states that they have been testing, and proven, that there is a link between ferrets and humans, from a study published in 1989, 22 years ago. All that this current paper shows is that it's possible that the current "outbreak" of H5N1 could have been caused by mishandling of lab samples, and shows exactly HOW it could be done, which, technically, is nothing new. The only issue, and why this is in the news, is that the details of the paper are far too specific.



As far as I am concerned, there's all this info in various palces already, so I do not understand why putting it all together in one place, matters. Just who are these "bad guys" we are so worried about, anyway?

I think the point is that it's now airborne.

[Steevo]

So "the man" creates a virus capable of devastating half the world, and all it takes is him to release it and start conveniently selling the "cure" for it.

I've seen this movie.

[Irony]

The only reason this got onto this thread is because this was publicized; probably accidentally. Biological and genetic engineering, in everything from Smallpox and chickens to tobacco plants and the common cold has been done for well over 100 years. Many institutions and governments have experimented with biological warfare. Smallpox is bred by the russian and US governments for sure, in the event it may be needed for a biological war. Oddly enough, smallpox was also used in the early 1800s by the US military to infect the Native americans; which succeeded in killing at least 80% within just a few years.

This is nothing new; it just seems shocking to the average person who is generally kept in the dark if at all possible.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by KainXS

A researcher by the name Ron Fouchier experimented with Avian Flu commonly contracted by birds(Ferrets in general) and has created a human contactable, airborne version of H5N1 and he wants to publish to the world how he made it. Like Typical H5N1 the mortality rate is about 50%



now thats some scary shit right there.


http://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...dia-storm.html

The sickest part of it is that H5N1 isn't the worst they have at those facilities. They have VX nerve gas and many other viruses/poisons that have a 99.98% mortality rate and in massive quantities.