Graphics card bending

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by spixel

Lol I know, but look at the far left of the graphics card. It is missing the metal plate and 2 screws. All cards dip before it is secured to the case there.

all cards dip due to weight, but it seems your card is not squared up (perpendicular/ 90 degree angle) with the pci slot in the back of the case, meaning your motherboard is sitting too low on the standoffs. Ive even had to loosen the pci bracket on cards to square them up and even loosen the connector screws so the card would sit right in the pci slot (fully seated in motherboard)

[spixel]

Originally Posted by niko084

Someone removed it, probably due to alignment issues.
Pretty rare the issues are that bad but it can happen.

Again this isn't much of a concern... Support the back of your card up a bit if it's bothers you.

Ok cheers, but now there is the question to why the pcb is of such low quality to allow bending? I want to know for future reference is this a problem with ATI, sapphire, or do all current cards use this pcb.

[spixel]

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

all cards dip due to weight, but it seems your card is not squared up (perpendicular/ 90 degree angle) with the pci slot in the back of the case, meaning your motherboard is sitting too low on the standoffs. Ive even had to loosen the pci bracket on cards to square them up and even loosen the connector screws so the card would sit right in the pci slot (fully seated in motherboard)

For the last time it is not the motherboard or case. My 8800 and 7900 are straight as can be without any adjustments and just holding the cards in my hand and trying to bend them slightly it is impossible to do so with all the cards except the 6870. It is made of weaker PCB which is under strain from the weight.

But thanks for trying to help, I can see why you might think this is the problem. The card is not slanted from misalignment though, it is bending.

[niko084]

Originally Posted by spixel

Ok cheers, but now there is the question to why the pcb is of such low quality to allow bending? I want to know for future reference is this a problem with ATI, sapphire, or do all current cards use this pcb.

PCB isn't a stiff material so a lot comes into play, we are not comparing apples to apples here.

The heatsinks are not the same, back plates if they have them, overall weight and position of voltage regulators, capacitors, ram chips the gpu etc, this all effects the stress against the card and in what place, as we all know from seesaws when the weight is near the other end it pulls with a greater amount of force. It's not particular to any manufacturer.

Put a OEM intel heatsink with those nice little push pins through a 775 board some time... Then flip it over and see how bad it bulges the board behind the cpu.

[spixel]

Originally Posted by niko084

PCB isn't a stiff material so a lot comes into play, we are not comparing apples to apples here.

The heatsinks are not the same, back plates if they have them, overall weight and position of voltage regulators, capacitors, ram chips the gpu etc, this all effects the stress against the card and in what place, as we all know from seesaws when the weight is near the other end it pulls with a greater amount of force. It's not particular to any manufacturer.

Put a OEM intel heatsink with those nice little push pins through a 775 board some time... Then flip it over and see how bad it bulges the board behind the cpu.

The PCB is different on the cards though, I can see it with my own eyes, it is around half as thick as the pcb used on the 7900 and 8800.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by niko084

PCB isn't a stiff material so a lot comes into play, we are not comparing apples to apples here.

Honestly if you dont like how the card is made just take it back, or make a support bracket

[spixel]

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

Honestly if you dont like how the card is made just take it back, or make a support bracket

I don't mind it that much to return it (yet ), I didn't make this thread to complain. I am wondering why the pcb is of lower quality, and if it will have any affect on the card over time.

[niko084]

Originally Posted by spixel

The PCB is different on the cards though, I can see it with my own eyes, it is around half as thick as the pcb used on the 7900 and 8800.

And it very well maybe, however that would be more related to the requirements of the card. I haven't had my hands on a 7900 in quite some time, however I can tell you the 8800GTX I have sitting in a box is about 2x heavier than my 6870, who knows how many layers are required for the card to be assembled.

I think you are searching for an answer that simply doesn't exist here. I doubt any of these companies use the same PCB on all their cards, odds are they wont supply you with a test piece for a study on the stiffness of the PCB. We can't compare card to card to card, I can tell you my 6870 has a tiny bit of bend in it.

What I can assure you of is how common this is and how much of a problem this isn't.
If it was a big issue you would see it being reported all over with complaints and failures and fixes which you don't see.

Do yourself a favor and support it if it worries you and just forget about it, frag on!

[spixel]

Originally Posted by niko084

And it very well maybe, however that would be more related to the requirements of the card. I haven't had my hands on a 7900 in quite some time, however I can tell you the 8800GTX I have sitting in a box is about 2x heavier than my 6870, who knows how many layers are required for the card to be assembled.

I think you are searching for an answer that simply doesn't exist here. I doubt any of these companies use the same PCB on all their cards, odds are they wont supply you with a test piece for a study on the stiffness of the PCB. We can't compare card to card to card, I can tell you my 6870 has a tiny bit of bend in it.

What I can assure you of is how common this is and how much of a problem this isn't.
If it was a big issue you would see it being reported all over with complaints and failures and fixes which you don't see.

Do yourself a favor and support it if it worries you and just forget about it, frag on!

Thanks, has anyone ever noticed their nvidia card bending though? Do you have a reference or non reference card? Both my 7900 and 8800 are reference. I just want to figure this out somewhat, even if it is harmless.

[niko084]

Originally Posted by spixel

Thanks, has anyone ever noticed their nvidia card bending though? Do you have a reference or non reference card? Both my 7900 and 8800 are reference.

My 8800 is reference and it bends a little bit, I just put a GTS450 *reference* in my roommates system that one bends a fair bit, I have a GTX480 *reference* sitting next to me, that's bent, a system a few feet away with a 4850 *reference* that ones bent a bit.

You know though...

I have an HD5450 and a 8400GS also in systems around me right now, those don't bend.
*also don't weigh anything*

My 6870 is a non reference and it bends a little.

[spixel]

Originally Posted by niko084

My 8800 is reference and it bends a little bit, I just put a GTS450 *reference* in my roommates system that one bends a fair bit, I have a GTX480 *reference* sitting next to me, that's bent, a system a few feet away with a 4850 *reference* that ones bent a bit.

You know though...

I have an HD5450 and a 8400GS also in systems around me right now, those don't bend.
*also don't weigh anything*

My 6870 is a non reference and it bends a little.

Thats odd, completely goes against everything I was thinking haha. Do you see a difference in pcb thickness with your 8800 and 6870?

[KingPing]

Originally Posted by spixel

Ok cheers, but now there is the question to why the pcb is of such low quality to allow bending? I want to know for future reference is this a problem with ATI, sapphire, or do all current cards use this pcb.

I don´t know about the PCB stuff if it is too thin or not, my 8800GTS (G80) from MSI, HD4870 (ref model) fom Visiontek, GTX570 Twin Frozr III from MSI, all those don´t bend because the cooler is supported by a shroud (i think that´s the name). On the other hand my Sapphire Toxic HD5850, Sapphire HD5830 Xtreme, XFX 9800GT, EVGA GTS250, are all more or less bend, because the cooler is attached directly to the PCB without any support. In my opinion today coolers are too heavy and the cards are too long, and without any support the cars start to bend.

[sno.lcn]

If the card is leaning a little (like in the picture), I wouldn't worry about it. If it's actually bending from bad HSF mounting, it can cause the video card to stop working, but usually only in severe cases. I've had tons of MSI motherboards not work if the CPU cooling was mounted too tightly. At the same time, I've bent the shit out of countless graphics cards mounting LN2 pots with no negative effects whatsoever.

[spixel]

Originally Posted by KingPing

I don´t know about the PCB stuff if it is too thin or not, my 8800GTS (G80) from MSI, HD4870 (ref model) fom Visiontek, GTX570 Twin Frozr III from MSI, all those don´t bend because the cooler is supported by a shroud (i think that´s the name). On the other hand my Sapphire Toxic HD5850, Sapphire HD5830 Xtreme, XFX 9800GT, EVGA GTS250, are all more or less bend, because the cooler is attached directly to the PCB without any support. In my opinion today coolers are too heavy and the cards are too long, and without any support the cars start to bend.

My 7900gtx has no support but it doesn't bend. My sapphire 6870 has no support either, the shroud is not attached to the card and it does bend. Thanks for the info.

[niko084]

Originally Posted by KingPing

I don´t know about the PCB stuff if it is too thin or not, my 8800GTS (G80) from MSI, HD4870 (ref model) fom Visiontek, GTX570 Twin Frozr III from MSI, all those don´t bend because the cooler is supported by a shroud (i think that´s the name).

If you are talking about a plastic cover that is attached to the PCB on both ends of the card, yes you are exactly correct it makes that shroud a reinforcement.

On the other hand my Sapphire Toxic HD5850, Sapphire HD5830 Xtreme, XFX 9800GT, EVGA GTS250, are all more or less bend, because the cooler is attached directly to the PCB without any support. In my opinion today coolers are too heavy and the cards are too long, and without any support the cars start to bend.

This is where the problem comes in, you are pulling straight down from the center of the card with a fair bit of weight.

Another easy way to understand this is to look up automotive chassis stiffening *cross braces, traction bars, even roll cages* they all work by providing more generally stiff material to the chassis to aide in avoiding distortion do to outside stress *weight, gravity, g-forces etc etc...*

[spixel]

My sapphire 6870 has the plastic cover, but it is not attached to the pcb at either end of the card so as you said, all the weight is on the centre of the card.

What is confusing me though is my 7900 is not attached either and the cooler is quite heavy but it doesn't bend. 8800 ultra cooler is attached to the card in many places.

[KingPing]

I think the same, those coolers are all attached with only 4 screws to the center of the card, no s*** they all bend. I think all cards should use a Shroud or brace like the one on the picture

[spixel]

Both of those cards have support, 6870 doesn't. I think the bending is a mixture of no support and the thinner PCB, mostly the PCB though as the lack of support has no affect on my 7900

[kenkickr]

About the only thing I know to help your issue is pick up a CardKeeper.

[KingPing]

Originally Posted by spixel

My sapphire 6870 has the plastic cover, but it is not attached to the pcb at either end of the card so as you said, all the weight is on the centre of the card.

What is confusing me though is my 7900 is not attached either and the cooler is quite heavy but it doesn't bend. 8800 ultra cooler is attached to the card in many places.

Now i am confused, i remembered that i have an old FX5500, it´s light and small and it is bend.

[spixel]

Originally Posted by KingPing

Now i am confused, i remembered that i have an old FX5500, it´s light and small and it is bend.

Maybe there is different causes to the bending, perhaps the fx5500 is bent regardless of weight while other cards that should be straight are bent from weight of cooler and thin pcb with no support.

[KingPing]

Originally Posted by spixel

Maybe there is different causes to the bending, perhaps the fx5500 is bent regardless of weight while other cards that should be straight are bent from weight of cooler and thin pcb with no support.

Or maybe my dam brother is bending my cards again!!!

Seriously, i have no idea, Maybe heat, weight, thin PCB are bending the cards.

[kellottajaFIN]

My old HD4850 (with Accelero S1 rev2) was bent quite a lot, but it's still alive. Of course some support is recommended, but at least my gfx cards have survived without any support.

[niffcreature]

I get pretty PO'd when my LCDs bend, but hey - haven't we all seen those new samsung LCDs that bend like paper?

For whatever reason, technology seems to be catering towards making things more flexible. I'm guessing the new thinner PCB is made from much stronger materials.

What a coincidence - my 15lb cat just stepped on a Radeon 1950 and bent it.

@niko84 greetings from st paul! Great 60 minutes of sun we just had for the entire month, eh?

[Norton]

Part of your answer lies in basic geometry and physics. These are two different examples of 6870's


Reference:



Non-Reference


The Reference board's cooler and shroud form a box and this shape is resistant to bending. In addition, this box is attached to the PCB at mulitple points including 2 additional screws from the shroud to the backplate.... which makes it even more resistant to bending.

The Non-Reference board is only a flat PCB attached to the back plate by only a few screws and the cards outputs. Any weight on this type of placed at a distance from the backplate will increase the stress the PCB at the attachment points and could bend them.

If you take the card out and look at it closely you will likely see that the angle between the backplate and PCB is no longer 90 degrees.

As others have said, adjusting the Mobo slightly will improve the bend on the card by bring the angle (backplate/PCB) back towards 90 degrees.

Real world example- what is more resistant to bending a flat steel plate or a box girder?