Speaker cable length / degradation?

[twicksisted]

I have just bought some Wharfdale Xarus 5000 floorstanding speakers for my lounge.
I have an onkyo TX-SR308 in my projector room opposite the lounge running a tannoy 5.1 system.

This onkyo has a secondary speaker output zone that can drive another stereo pair of speakers, so I want to get some speaker wire to attach the lounge speakers to it.

The distance between the two rooms would mean that I would need a maximum of 25metres (per speaker) of speaker cable to connect them up. I was thinking of buying this cable as its cheap enough but wanted to make sure that this was a good idea before I bought it and that I wasnt putting the amp at risk running such long lengths of cheap cable: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294

[tigger]

Have a look at this- http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=48417

[AsRock]

Should be ok.. See if Maplin has some 14-16G wire, how ever i believe your on about zone 2 which i believe disables the sound in the other room when zone 2 is active.

[m1dg3t]

Not sure what gauge that wire is but pretty much any oxygen free cable is gonna be fine, i would go for 10g/12g though as you're doing a lengthy run 25m = 75ft

I use Canare 4s11 in my main system (currently 5.2) and 12g Rocketfish for my analogue system, yes i play's record's

You can check out avs.com or audiokarma.com both great audio forum's

[twicksisted]

another question... the onkyo amp only has push spring tabs for the zone two speakers... would 10-12guage wire fit in this type of connection?

Originally Posted by AsRock

Should be ok.. See if Maplin has some 14-16G wire, how ever i believe your on about zone 2 which i believe disables the sound in the other room when zone 2 is active.

Yeah thats not a problem, I will only be in one room at a time, dont need music playing in both rooms simultaneously. I only really use the 5.1 system when im watching movies on the projector.
At some point ill upgrade the onkyo to something bigger in their range but at this point its just after xmas and ive upgraded both my rigs recently to sandybridge, not much funds left for toys

[AsRock]

Originally Posted by twicksisted

another question... the onkyo amp only has push spring tabs for the zone two speakers... would 10-12guage wire fit in this type of connection?

http://hifibest.com/wp-content/uploa...eiver-Rear.jpg




Yeah thats not a problem, I will only be in one room at a time, dont need music playing in both rooms simultaneously. I only really use the 5.1 system when im watching movies on the projector.
At some point ill upgrade the onkyo to something bigger in their range but at this point its just after xmas and ive upgraded both my rigs recently to sandybridge, not much funds left for toys

Ooh, i did not mean you needed to upgrade .. Well just thought i say is all just in case that's what you were planing..

And yes be careful of how think the wire it as you said it might not fit.. You checked the manual if that says how thick it can or even if you know the what G your current wire is how much thinker it can be.

At a guess 14G be pushing it.

[BumbleBee]

Originally Posted by twicksisted

another question... the onkyo amp only has push spring tabs for the zone two speakers... would 10-12guage wire fit in this type of connection?

http://hifibest.com/wp-content/uploa...eiver-Rear.jpg




Yeah thats not a problem, I will only be in one room at a time, dont need music playing in both rooms simultaneously. I only really use the 5.1 system when im watching movies on the projector.
At some point ill upgrade the onkyo to something bigger in their range but at this point its just after xmas and ive upgraded both my rigs recently to sandybridge, not much funds left for toys

go with 16 gauge.

[twicksisted]

I been looking in the classifieds today and im very tempted with this offer:

NAD C320 BEE amplifier
NAD C521 BEE cd player

The amp pushes continuous power of 50watt per channel at 8 ohms so should be plenty of juice for my 6 ohm Warfdale Xarus 5000 floorstanders for reasonable listening levels and I wouldnt have to run tonnes of cable around the house. (110W/160W/210W IHF dynamic power into 8/4/2 ohms )

Does anyone have any experience with this amp? what sort of price would you pay second hand for them both?

[Frederik S]

It depends on the speakers, but normal quality speaker cable will be just fine for 25 meters.

[AsRock]

Originally Posted by twicksisted

I been looking in the classifieds today and im very tempted with this offer:

NAD C320 BEE amplifier
NAD C521 BEE cd player

The amp pushes continuous power of 50watt per channel at 8 ohms so should be plenty of juice for my 6 ohm Warfdale Xarus 5000 floorstanders for reasonable listening levels and I wouldnt have to run tonnes of cable around the house. (110W/160W/210W IHF dynamic power into 8/4/2 ohms )

Does anyone have any experience with this amp? what sort of price would you pay second hand for them both?

I have had loads of amps and speakers over the years and for the most part they sounded different.. Although with A/V's i have noticed less differences.

Anyway if the NAD amps are any thing like how they used to be it probably has a forward in your face bass which tends to be fair tight and nice with faster music. So less rumble and more punch.

I like their amps although i like so many different types of music. Only other i known with the same kinda in ya face sound was TEAC although other companys did some like Technics but they did so many different sounding amps..

But anyways yes NAD are good reliable company\brand and been around for many years.. And by that review of it they sound like the same deal.


Noticed this pic of it's insides lol.. And as far as i can tell it's 8ohm = 110w
http://www.videohifi.com/nad_c320_eng.htm

[BlackOmega]

Originally Posted by m1dg3t

Not sure what gauge that wire is but pretty much any oxygen free cable is gonna be fine, i would go for 10g/12g though as you're doing a lengthy run 25m = 75ft

It's actually 82ft. However I totally agree with you on the gauge of wiring. Any lengthy run like that needs to have as little resistance in the wire as possible. A good quality brand cable that 12awg would be more than sufficient.

Originally Posted by twicksisted

another question... the onkyo amp only has push spring tabs for the zone two speakers... would 10-12guage wire fit in this type of connection?

From the Onkyo's that I've had and used, 10 and 12 awg should fit with nary in issue.

Please note, that the more strands a cable has the better. More paths for the signal to travel.

When I used to build custom car audio systems (professionally), we'd almost always use 10 awg cable for the speakers. The cable had so many strands that it literally felt like human hair when you removed the insulation. We'd also use shielded cable to help protect signal integrity since cars have LOTS of interference potential all over the place.

[micropage7]

Originally Posted by Frederik S

It depends on the speakers, but normal quality speaker cable will be just fine for 25 meters.

yep, but keep in mind that shorter cable is better. every cable has its own resistance so the longer cable the bigger resistance you have so it would affect to power that arrive to speaker

[jsfitz54]

These are good for terminating ends, Monster Cable:

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=4583

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=4582

You should use 12ga CL2 rated cable such as:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-FT-12-AW...item46007d70e7

You will need to search UK for supplier.

OFC copper is best and look at how many strands per conductor...the more the better.

[m1dg3t]

# of strand's is not always an indication of better cabling, there are MANY, MANY more factor's involved. Hell you could spend $5k+ on a set of cable's if you so desired lol

O/P your Onkyo should easily handle a 12g if not 10g. Speaker wire's and ALL audio equipment for that matter is subjective as every single person has a different experience but generally for run's of that length you want a 12g minimum. Never had personal experience with NAD but they are a well respected name in the audio realm, check out www.avsforum.com, www.audiokarma.org and www.audiogon.com for plenty of info regarding all thing's audio.

Discussion on speaker cable's has led to MANY a flame war Just KISS and run some OFC 12g you'll be glad you did and if you have solid jumper's on the back of your speak's ditch those in favour of some speaker cable

PS Thinner gauge cable's (especially "budget" cable's) have higher resitance than thicker gauge for any given length and the longer the cable run the higher the resistance which lead's to a loss of sound. Which i think you would notice given your Wharfdale's and source. If not terminating your end's i'd highly reccomend soldering them to prevent oxidation and maintain cable integrity.

[Frederik S]

Please keep in mind that 99% of cable companies out there sell you stuff you do not need. Quality termination and a correct gauge is enough for any normal speaker setup. Microphones, high-power speakers and that type of applications require more careful selection of wires. Normal high-end home speakers do not.

Monster Cables produce a lot of cables that claim all sorts of improvements, like their HDMI cables. Personally I would never buy anything from that company solely based on their obvious scam-like marketing.

If you are going for a set of high quality cables with good workmanship and quality termination you could check out http://www.bluejeanscable.com

12 gauge seems a bit on the thick size, but will definitely get the job done.

[twicksisted]

Thanks for all of the advice in this thread

I have just ordered 25 metres of 18AWG oxygen free copper cable, a Fisual Rio 30cm gold plated phono cable and am waiting on a NAD C320 BEE amplifier & NAD C521 BEE cd player that should hopefully arrive soon.



Yes, I spent money again and was trying to get away without doing that, but I think its for the best... this NAD amp and CD player should bring out the best in most speakers and should hopefully have enough grunt to push my Wharfdale Xarus 5000 floorstanders. (I have a feeling that the floorstanders will be the next upgrade to get something that will take advantage of the NAD amps quality!).

I think ill stay away from using the seperate zone on this Onkyo for simplicity sake.

[m1dg3t]

Nice component's but way, way to small speaker cable. I hope it was a typo, sound WILL suffer.

[twicksisted]

hmmm... no it wasnt a typo... i assumed that 18 was a larger number and therefore a larger strand count cable... oh well it was cheap enough, I'll buy some other cable then... is everyone agreed on 12 AWG then?


what do you guys make of this cable:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Van-Damme-Pr...7957114&sr=8-8

VAN DAMME 12 AWG ... sounds like a gun lol

or this.. this looks good and easy to use, could be a bit short with the new amp but im not sure:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-14Awg...956940&sr=8-34

[m1dg3t]

Either of those will be MUCH better suited for your use but make sure you get the right length! As a minimum i would get a 14g cable if either of those can't be had in your required length. Speaker/electrical cable is funny the higher the # the thinner the cable, the lower the # the thicker the cable. The VanDamme look's like it may have separate ground's built in to help with "crosstalk"/induced distortion

[twicksisted]

Cool, I have already ordered that thin 18 AWG stuff (25 metres of it lol, perhaps ill use that for my home theatre speakers as they just using flex!).

I'll test out the speakers with it and the lengths I need, then order some good quality van damme stuff later when i have the positioning right

[BumbleBee]

Originally Posted by m1dg3t

Either of those will be MUCH better suited for your use but make sure you get the right length! As a minimum i would get a 14g cable if either of those can't be had in your required length. Speaker/electrical cable is funny the higher the # the thinner the cable, the lower the # the thicker the cable. The VanDamme look's like it may have separate ground's built in to help with "crosstalk"/induced distortion

I think it's filler to help with tension.

[twicksisted]

Just got an email from the guy im buying the NAD stuff from, looks like I will have it in the next 48 hours

Getting excited!

[m1dg3t]

Originally Posted by BumbleBee

I think it's filler to help with tension.

Could be, it's hard to tell from the pic

Originally Posted by twicksisted

Just got an email from the guy im buying the NAD stuff from, looks like I will have it in the next 48 hours

Getting excited!

Sweet!

Originally Posted by twicksisted

Cool, I have already ordered that thin 18 AWG stuff (25 metres of it lol, perhaps ill use that for my home theatre speakers as they just using flex!).

I'll test out the speakers with it and the lengths I need, then order some good quality van damme stuff later when i have the positioning right

See if you can cancel that order 18g is pretty much useless, honestly, unless it is EXTREMELY high quality cable. 16g is what i would suggest as a minimum for nothing more than 25ft run. Good idea on setting everything up first! Plus i forgot you were by-passing the zone2 Onkyo idea as you ended up going with the NAD separate's. If you keep the end's un-terminated i would suggest soldering them to prevent oxidization

[BumbleBee]

looks like cotton with a black pvc jacket.

[m1dg3t]

Originally Posted by BumbleBee

looks like cotton with a black pvc jacket.

You got better eye's than me! That damn glaucoma, where's my med's