AMD: It's not K8L, it's K10

[zekrahminator]

For a long time, we've been nicknaming AMD's next major chip release K8L. In truth, AMD never really called their next generation CPU "K8L". The only time they ever nicknamed this new chip K8L was in imaginary roadmaps that were used a long, long time ago. The "L" in K8L actually stands for "low power", which has been used in the Turion 64 series for a year or two now. AMD has officially stated that their next generation of CPU's has the codename of K10. AMD also assures us that the K10 micro-architecture will be a very large step from what AMD currently offers in the K9 micro-architecture.

Source: The Inquirer

[wazzledoozle]

So I'm assuming K9 were the AM2 processors, K8 with a DDR2 controller tacked on?

[zekrahminator]

Yeah, pretty much, TheINQ's article explains AMD's titling scheme a bit better than I can .

[PVTCaboose1337]

k10. Wow that sounds weird.

[Zubasa]

Originally Posted by PVTCaboose1337

k10. Wow that sounds weird.

Better than K9 (Canine aka Dog)

[C.Ash]

Hopefully by K15 they will have something to combat Intel.

[AshenSugar]

C.Ash, read up on the new "k10" that will be out soon, quoted to be up to 40% faster then c2d/c2q , thats gonna be a nice boost, and intel wont be jumping in with something truely new for some time to come, just refreshes of conroe, Then when they do it will requier yet another version of socket 775 to run it, k8l/k10 will work on am2 boards with a simple bios update!!!

[mumak]

actually it's referred as "Family 10h" in all stuff

[tigger]

oh well all the amdaphiles were wrong shouting about K8L then,suprise suprise.

and if k10 is quicker than C2D,i will switch back to amd,coz i aint no fanboy.

[AshenSugar]

acctualy intels the ones who been calling it k8l, and even amd reps have called it that a few times, just because thats the common term used for the chip, kinda like if people started calling intels next chip the nubium 3000 eventuly it would catchon and endup as the geek name of the chip.

[BXtreme]

Originally Posted by tigger69

oh well all the amdaphiles were wrong shouting about K8L then,suprise suprise.

and if k10 is quicker than C2D,i will switch back to amd,coz i aint no fanboy.

are there any current detailed info on these ?

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by tigger69

oh well all the amdaphiles were wrong shouting about K8L then,suprise suprise.

and if k10 is quicker than C2D,i will switch back to amd,coz i aint no fanboy.

My thoughts too! I am sticking with my old S939, am just about to get an Opty 185 x2 which will hold me out until K10 then I am going to jump on the bandwagon and go AM2.....K10....DDR2.....unless of course Intel have a better/faster product around at the time!!

[C.Ash]

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

C.Ash, read up on the new "k10" that will be out soon, quoted to be up to 40% faster then c2d/c2q , thats gonna be a nice boost, and intel wont be jumping in with something truely new for some time to come, just refreshes of conroe, Then when they do it will requier yet another version of socket 775 to run it, k8l/k10 will work on am2 boards with a simple bios update!!!

And what do u think K10 is going to be? Just a refresh of the Athlon 64 X2 series.

K8L.. uh, K10 will be using a 65nm process (while Intel will have 45nm Conroe in July) and there will be a Single Core version, wich says something about it.

But hey, if 40% is true then this should be interesting.. too bad its going to take more than 7 months to get here in wich case ppl will already be buying 45nm Conroe. And in 2008, when K10 will get to 45nm, Intel will probably have something even better. Thats how AMD is always behind.

[AshenSugar]

45 isnt a move for higher clocks its a move to make more cores per wafer.

no k10 isnt a refresh, its a redesign, no singel core version is listed, there are 3 versions listed
aegna:quadcore k10, the desktop version of barcelona
Kuma: dual core version of aegna(k10)
Rana: dual core semperon (looks very sweet by spec)

AMD's native quad-core design picks up more steam

In a series of memos forwarded to DailyTech, industry insiders discussed the upcoming launch frequencies regarding AMD's next-generation architecture, previously dubbed K8L by AMD Executive Vice President Henri Richard. Since then, AMD has generally referred to the next-generation chips as the Barcelona family, although Barcelona specifically denotes the high-performance quad-core server processor codename.

Some details of next-generation AMD desktop processors, the Stars family, were revealed late last year.

The desktop equivalent of Barcelona, codenamed Agena, is the 65nm flagship of AMD's next-generation desktop processors. Launch frequencies were quoted at "2.4 - 2.6GHz." Previous roadmaps had indicated Agena would debut at 2.7 to 2.9 GHz. Agena will have a 2MB L2 and 2MB L3 cache per CPU. AMD's internal guidance denotes this as a 125W TDP processor. As the flagship, Agena will be the first next-generation desktop launch and is scheduled for Q3'07.

Kuma, the dual-core mainstream next-generation desktop processor was quoted as having launch frequencies of "2.0 - 2.9GHz." Unlike the quad-core Agena processors, Kuma will feature 1MB of L2 and 2MB of shared L3 cache. Kuma will launch with both 89W and 65W TDP variants, but Energy Efficient models scheduled for 35W TDP will follow shortly after.

Rana, the next-generation Sempron successor codename, will launch with frequencies in the 2.1 to 2.3 GHz range. The dual-core CPUs will feature 1MB of total L2 cache, but no L3 cache. Rana's TDP is rated at 65W. Rana will not launch with the Agena flagship; AMD roadmaps have the processor launching at the same time as the Energy Efficient Kuma processors, or approximately Q4'07 if the launch schedule holds together.

As previously reported on DailyTech, Stars processors will use AM2+ motherboards. These processors can plug into existing AM2 motherboards today given the proper BIOS updates, but without the AM2+ sockets Stars processors will drop down to the HyperTransport 1.0 bus speeds.

AMD's Agena FX codename also appears to still exist on the roadmap. The only difference at this point between Agena and Agena FX is that Agena FX will use the Socket 1207+ interface.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5874

and 45nm wont help intel much, its the move to the new way of making circuts that will help ibm/amd and intel all have come up with new ways, from reports the ibm/amd way seems better but intels will be used sooner(in 45nm chips)

we already are seeing 3.5gz on windsor cores on air, thats 90nm, once 65nm amd is mature(2nd run of chips) i would guess 3.5 will be a common easy overclock given proper ram and board.

remmber the lessons of the past, first gen chips of a new prosess are never as good as 2nd gen/rev chips
compare a tbred-a and tbred-b, A=first gen 130nm very poor clockers and run hot , b=2nd gen VERY VERY good overclockers and run COOL.

the nm wars are winding down, they are about at the limmit of die shrinks from what i have read, the next advances have to be on how they make those pretty pictures on the silicon(or whatever they change to in the future)

[tigger]

considering the e4300 will do 4.8ghz,i hope the k10 is good.i wonder what a 45nm intel will do?

first gen c2d's clock like fook,so the second gen should be even better.

[pt]

K9's aren't the officially nomenclature, it's AM2

[C.Ash]

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

45 isnt a move for higher clocks its a move to make more cores per wafer.

no k10 isnt a refresh, its a redesign, no singel core version is listed, there are 3 versions listed
aegna:quadcore k10, the desktop version of barcelona
Kuma: dual core version of aegna(k10)
Rana: dual core semperon (looks very sweet by spec)



http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5874

and 45nm wont help intel much, its the move to the new way of making circuts that will help ibm/amd and intel all have come up with new ways, from reports the ibm/amd way seems better but intels will be used sooner(in 45nm chips)

we already are seeing 3.5gz on windsor cores on air, thats 90nm, once 65nm amd is mature(2nd run of chips) i would guess 3.5 will be a common easy overclock given proper ram and board.

remmber the lessons of the past, first gen chips of a new prosess are never as good as 2nd gen/rev chips
compare a tbred-a and tbred-b, A=first gen 130nm very poor clockers and run hot , b=2nd gen VERY VERY good overclockers and run COOL.

the nm wars are winding down, they are about at the limmit of die shrinks from what i have read, the next advances have to be on how they make those pretty pictures on the silicon(or whatever they change to in the future)

There isnt proof that this will be better than C2D, and we dont know it's performance readings. So the claim that it is infact even as good as C2D will have to be seen.

But there is another K10 - "Spica", a single-core version.

In recent reports, K8L also comes in single core (codenamed Spica)

-Wikipedia

[ChaoticBlankness]

I wouldn't say that Wikipedia is the best source of info on products not yet available, but I'd imagine if true the single core version may have a disabled core or cores. (1/4, or 1/2 config)

After all, AMD is now talking about dual core Semprons.

[WarEagleAU]

I just cant wait for these and see some benchies on em.

[magibeg]

Well hopefully its pretty good.. the 45nm intel die shrink comming isn't your average shrink.... its using a HUGE fundamental step forward by using halfnium which GREATLY reduces leakage. With that in mind i hope AMD has an ace up its sleeve to beat intel by a little and combat not the current C2D but the 45nm version penryn.

[mullered07]

Originally Posted by C.Ash

There isnt proof that this will be better than C2D, and we dont know it's performance readings. So the claim that it is infact even as good as C2D will have to be seen.

But there is another K10 - "Spica", a single-core version.


-Wikipedia

there isnt proof it wont be either so how can u be so sure of yourself aswell

um do you work for amd ? intel ? no omg!! u must be one of those pyshcic people

truth is no one knows what amd have under there belt and we probably wont for a couple of months at least, and to me it looks like intel is sweating a bit what with rushing there quad core out and anouncing 45nm so soon after 65nm, if anything this is good for all of us tech heads (except fanboys ) cause i will get the best that i can with my money and before my current rig it was a X2 3800+ what beat the shit outta intels pentium d series, swings and roundabouts kiddies thats all it is but it keeps it all good and keeps nice new hardware cheap for us

peace.

[XooM]

I'm praying that AMD is gonna release something kickass, and release it on AM2; i hedged my bets a few months ago that they would and upgraded to AM2 and am thoroughly enjoying flogging my 3800x2 for the hell of it

Eagerly anticipating AMD's moves now. Also, AMD's next gen will be using SiGe, on which all signs point to being faster than your average tranny. I wonder if they'll also be doing SGOI? (SOI w/ SiGe trannies)

[AshenSugar]

even singel core dosnt mean shit, some people and companys still have use for singel core chips, as stated many will probbly be quad/dual core chips that have defective cores, i know a few people who would buy singel core over dual or quadcore simply because they seen no added value in running more then 1 core to game or suft the web.

think about the avrage low end user, they dont game, they dont heavly multitask, they suft a bit, mabydownload some prOn or music and email, thats about it, they dont use their pc like us geeks, so low ram/singel core/pos video is plenty for anything they do.

and take note my main system still isnt dual core, because for gaming currentlyits not worth while, k8l/k10 almost hear(5-6months away, maby 7 b4 prices are reasonable on aegna and kuma)
and we didnt acctualy see real perf info on core2/conroe other then intel benches but back the everybody was allover "you gotta go conroe" i find how now the mantality is "wait and see" and even if amd did something unlike themselves and put out benches of their current ES silicon and it BLEW core2 out of the water, people would be "wait and see"

i never jump on the first gen of anything, the chip im using now is f2, 2nd run/gen of am2, it was CHEAP yet im getting 3gz out of it on PIB aircooling, i know it dosnt super PI liike a core2, but guess what it games just as well as any core2 you put it against in current games.

i may endup with a rana, because if they are cheap and powerfull why not? im sure they will clock VERY VERY well

[Alec§taar]

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

even singel core dosnt mean shit, some people and companys still have use for singel core chips, as stated many will probbly be quad/dual core chips that have defective cores, i know a few people who would buy singel core over dual or quadcore simply because they seen no added value in running more then 1 core to game or suft the web.think about the avrage low end user, they dont game, they dont heavly multitask, they suft a bit, mabydownload some prOn or music and email, thats about it, they dont use their pc like us geeks, so low ram/singel core/pos video is plenty for anything they do.

That's true for the most part... but, some 'normal folks' end up being "transformed into geeks", once they get into it. Not all do, but... remember when YOU were "normal"?

(LOL - on a 'funny side-note': I had to say that... sounds funny, doesn't it? Think about it though, because @ SOME POINT, you too, were 'normal'... lol!)

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

and take note my main system still isnt dual core, because for gaming currentlyits not worth while, k8l/k10 almost hear(5-6months away, maby 7 b4 prices are reasonable on aegna and kuma)

Depends on that game though!

E.G.-> Dual-or-more CPU core bearing CPU's, imo, ARE worth it for Quake 4 SMP!

(On many tests I have seen this seems to be the case: & even up thru the HIGHER range of resolution folks can use (does the most thru 640x480 - 1024x768 resolutions though, in terms of most 'pound-for-pound' gains), the gain of using dual-or-more cores IS there still, because that game (one of the "few, the proud") does take advantage of dual-or-more core CPU setups, but over those resolutions, the graphics card does the 'bulk/majority' of the work, but still - the dual-or-more core gain is there nevertheless, it just doesn't 'go away', as I am sure you realize/know, like most folks here - we beat that one to death here debating it...).

Plus, personal computers? They're a LOT MORE than just gaming... far more. If all a person does is game?? Get a CONSOLE!

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

and we didnt acctualy see real perf info on core2/conroe other then intel benches but back the everybody was allover "you gotta go conroe" i find how now the mantality is "wait and see" and even if amd did something unlike themselves and put out benches of their current ES silicon and it BLEW core2 out of the water, people would be "wait and see"

Well, I am going to "beg to differ" a bit on that account/note: WE HERE, DID SEE A DIFFERENCE HERE, FOR FOLKS USING CONROES, & it was FAIRLY LARGE!

(When they overclocked mostly, those CPU's are GREAT for that apparently... out of the box, they are NOT THAT IMPRESSIVE over X² Athlon64 cpu's, but they are when they get o/c'd)

E.G./I.E. -> The ScienceMark 2.0 tests were 'ruled' by Opterons & X² Athlon64 CPU's, for the LONGEST TIME, here on these forums... same in Super-Pi for the most part, & AquaMark 3.0 testings.

(e.g.-> like my system, see signature below for specs, it was in the "TOP 10" group for ages, until the INTEL CONROE series came out... those blew us AMD users, CLEAN AWAY!)

Yes, it (ScienceMark 2.0, Super-Pi, & AquaMark 3.0) ARE "just synthetic benchmarks" but, the point's still there, & they're a decent guideline indicator of what's-what, performance-wise, imo @ least, & DO cover a lot of ground between them all, as far as what a CPU goes thru, as well as graphics cards (AquaMark 3.0 here on the GPU, not in ScienceMark &/or Super-Pi) in combination w/ them.

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

i never jump on the first gen of anything, the chip im using now is f2, 2nd run/gen of am2, it was CHEAP yet im getting 3gz out of it on PIB aircooling, i know it dosnt super PI liike a core2, but guess what it games just as well as any core2 you put it against in current games.

Again - not ALL current games: Some do use the extra cores present effectively (Quake 4 SMP, once more, does & well)... but, on jumping on 'latest/greatest' core revisions for CPU's, I tend to agree w/ you... but, mainly because of the high costs of going for "latest/greatest"... I wait out price drops & usually am 1 generation back.

What I am certain of though, is that a GOOD 90-95% (or more) of what you run bears multiple threads, & usually, if done right/correctly (even 'coarse multithreading' separating datasets being worked on across diff. CPU cores), it makes a difference, because most of what you RUN is multithreaded (excluding MOST games today)...

Originally Posted by AshenSugar

i may endup with a rana, because if they are cheap and powerfull why not? im sure they will clock VERY VERY well

I don't know WHAT one I will go for in the future... tests will help ME determine that though, because if I was to buy NOW?

I would go INTEL "CoreDuo", personally!



* Again, because of their results on ScienceMark 2.0, Super-Pi, & AquaMark 3.0 tests we did here (an impressive array of tests that, synthetic or not, DO show INTEL CORE2DUO SUPERIORITY, across the boards) - that's for "the NOW" though.

APK

P.S.=> I cannot wait to see what AMD pulls out from their 'hat' on this one... "K10" sounds like a good nickname for them too, better imo than K8L... apk

[tigger]

i tried the multi core patch for cod2 when i got my connie.the differance was astounding.after the duel core patch it would easily run 1280 maxxed out.before it,there was no way icould run maxxed out.duel core will start coming into its own in games with the nxt batch of games,crysis,stalker(i hope).once dule core games are here,the differance over a single core will increase,a lot.if a game is written for duel core it will run much faster on the duel than a single core.

and when i had my 3000+ on win xp,in a morning avg used to do a full scan,which used to cripple the single core.with the duel core,i could just let it do its scan and play a game or anything.duel core on win xp pro,made loads of differance.

and considering the c2d's are "only" first gen,they clock very well indeed(well i'd say an easy 100% is very good) imagine what the second gen will bw like,or penryn