Durango Implements Always-On DRM, Multi-GPU

btarunr · Apr 2, 2012, 05:04 PM

Microsoft's next-generation Xbox console, codenamed "Durango", will implement an "always-on" DRM, according to a VG 24/7 report. Always-on is a stringent anti-piracy measure that's already in use with some PC game titles published by Ubisoft, which requires the players to be connected to the Internet when playing. Even as its proponents (read: game publishers only), claim increased sales, it faces strong opposition from the gaming community. The Christmas 2013 (tentative) launch of Durango rides on the assumption that fast, always-on broadband Internet will have proliferated to every living room.

Next up, there's talk of Durango featuring a unique multi-GPU hardware design that doesn't resemble symmetric PC multi-GPU technologies such as NVIDIA SLI or AMD CrossFire, but instead, the two GPUs will be tasked with rendering the same object redundantly. Perhaps Durango features native flicker-free stereoscopic 3D capability, and the two GPUs are merely rendering the two planes? Once again, there's talk that these GPUs will be designed by AMD. The CPU of Durango will feature "four or six" cores. Lastly, Blu-ray disc is back as the storage medium, in these latest rumors.

Source: VG247, VR-Zone

Jstn7477 · Apr 2, 2012, 05:12 PM

Gamers will probably miss the days where you could just plug the console into your TV and play/share games. I remember playing PS2 in the car years ago when I went on some road trips.

What happens when XBOX "3" no longer has support from Microsoft? Will that kill the ability to even have a working XBOX "3" 20 years from now when people could still have fully functioning NES/SNES/N64 systems that are free of restrictions?

I'm fine with Steam, but I'll hate the day that the Steam network ceases to exist (if the software now is still even compatible with computers then).

AlienIsGOD · Apr 2, 2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jstn7477

What happens when XBOX "3" no longer has support from Microsoft? Will that kill the ability to even have a working XBOX "3" 20 years from now when people could still have fully functioning NES/SNES/N64 systems that are free of restrictions?

I have a NES in my closet, just needs its spring fixed and its g2g

FordGT90Concept · Apr 2, 2012, 05:23 PM

I said this was coming and there it is.

hardcore_gamer · Apr 2, 2012, 05:26 PM

Son of a

Saidrex · Apr 2, 2012, 05:27 PM

Greed knows no bounds. Fighting piracy this way hurts honest customers more than pirates.

Suhidu · Apr 2, 2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jstn7477

What happens when XBOX "3" no longer has support from Microsoft? Will that kill the ability to even have a working XBOX "3" 20 years from now when people could still have fully functioning NES/SNES/N64 systems that are free of restrictions?

It wouldn't surprise me, considering the precedent set when Microsoft shut down the Original XBOX Live servers back in 2010.

The problem then was that XBOX Live was designed for no dedicated servers, Microsoft could shut down the last one. The problem now is that they're designing no "dedicated" way of allowing you to play games on your own next XBOX, Microsoft can allow you your last session.

phanbuey · Apr 2, 2012, 05:46 PM

There are two problems with always on DRM IMO:

1 - It is still crackable, so piracy will still be a problem for titles.

2 - It is a huge pain in the butt, wildly unpopular - and will actually hurt sales to some extent.

Some game devs will take advantage of the always on DRM, until they realize that it does not stop piracy to any extent, as there will be some exploit which will get around it.

Kreij · Apr 2, 2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24/7

Xbox 720′s graphics units will be able to work independently, drawing separate items simultaneously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP

but instead, the two GPUs will be tasked with rendering the same object redundantly

The quote from the linked article sounds like the GPUs will be drawing different items for display simultaneously, not the same items redundantly.

Papahyooie · Apr 2, 2012, 06:00 PM

And I try so hard to be good and not pirate... what they dont realize is, alot of times they force people who are generally honest into piracy to avoid stupid crap like this.

I suppose you could actually buy the game and then "pirate" (download a cracked version even though you own it), but that just feels all sort of wrong. Why should I "support the developers" if they aren't going to support me? As it turns out, the guys supporting me are the ones doing the cracking, while the developers are trying to screw me.

Mega-Japan · Apr 2, 2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papahyooie

And I try so hard to be good and not pirate... what they dont realize is, alot of times they force people who are generally honest into piracy to avoid stupid crap like this.

I suppose you could actually buy the game and then "pirate" (download a cracked version even though you own it), but that just feels all sort of wrong. Why should I "support the developers" if they aren't going to support me? As it turns out, the guys supporting me are the ones doing the cracking, while the developers are trying to screw me.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I find this sort of thing to be simply unnecessary. Hell, other than MMO's (for obvious reasons), I find anything that MUST have you online to use, completely dumb. I travel a lot because of my job, and a lot of times I find myself without internet.

That's why I got sooo mad when I bought a retail box of Skyrim and couldn't play because the thing required Steam, and was forced to get a no-steam crack through other means. The crack did more than just taking care of the steam requirement though, and after being annoyed by the situation, and disappointed by the game on top of it, sold the unused serial key on eBay for $40, lol.

nonkX3 · Apr 2, 2012, 06:31 PM

i just can't believe that geeks can be greedy too...

Batou1986 · Apr 2, 2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreij

The quote from the linked article sounds like the GPUs will be drawing different items for display simultaneously, not the same items redundantly.

So no more MS dashboard lag?.... then again it lags on pc titles too.

ZoneDymo · Apr 2, 2012, 06:46 PM

VG24/7 also referred to durango still as Xbox 720.
I think we can take whatever they claim with a grain of salt.

WhiteLotus · Apr 2, 2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreij

The quote from the linked article sounds like the GPUs will be drawing different items for display simultaneously, not the same items redundantly.

Isn't that just like Crossfire/SLI?

W1zzard · Apr 2, 2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteLotus

Isn't that just like Crossfire/SLI?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Frame_Rendering

ensabrenoir · Apr 2, 2012, 07:25 PM

D U M B

TheMailMan78 · Apr 2, 2012, 07:34 PM

I think this is a great idea.......lol

Jizzler · Apr 2, 2012, 07:46 PM

Pffffttt... second GPU. Used to increase performance when they could simply use a slightly more powerful GPU? ReallY!?! Of course not. The second GPU and always-on DRM aren't two seperate items, the second GPU implements the always-on DRM! It'll be able to capture, compress and upload the display steam to the MS mothership. Doesn't stop there either, they'll record your movements and scan the inside of your room via Kinect. Why else would they spend so much money brainwashing us into believing that "active" gaming is fun when it's not?

Shortly after, they'll release the "perfect game". With the information gathered, it'll adapt to the user, creating a scenerio where the add-ons, upgrades, and DLC will be nearly irresitable to buy.

Can't crack it, they're always watching...

FordGT90Concept · Apr 2, 2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

I think this is a great idea.......lol

Of course you would. Funny how you support corporations policing media but oppose government doing the same. DRM is not consistent with liberitarian ideals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jizzler

Pffffttt... second GPU. Used to increase performance when they could simply use a slightly more powerful GPU? ReallY!?! Of course not. The second GPU and always-on DRM aren't two seperate items, the second GPU implements the always-on DRM! It'll be able to capture, compress and upload the display steam to the MS mothership. Doesn't stop there either, they'll record your movements and scan the inside of your room via Kinect. Why else would they spend so much money brainwashing us into believing that "active" gaming is fun when it's not?

I think the logic behind this is that programers will program one GPU for one viewpoint and the second GPU always renders the second from a slightly different viewpoint for 3D. It makes all games 3D compatible without requiring any effort from the developers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the secondary GPU could be repurposed for, for example, physics calculations. Games tend to either be graphically heavy and physics light or graphically simple and physics heavy. Two discreet GPUs allows the hardware to cater to that.

Octavean · Apr 2, 2012, 08:08 PM

I might buy one but I likely wont play any games on it. I may use it only as a Media Center extender if that is still a feature. The dig there is if the console is sold at a loss, they will never recuperate that loss from me.

TheMailMan78 · Apr 2, 2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Of course you would. Funny how you support corporations policing media but oppose government doing the same. DRM is not consistent with liberitarian ideals.

I support people protecting their property. Thats very consistent with libertarian ideals. However forcing people to give hard work away for free for the "good of man" tends to be a communist attitude. Honestly Ford I didn't peg you as a commie.

FordGT90Concept · Apr 2, 2012, 08:18 PM

Implying guilt is not liberitarian. It's like forcing everyone to buy health insurance because they could be guilty of using health services without paying for it. So, everyone must buy DRM just because you could be a pirate. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

"Property" is implied as something tangible like a house, a computer, a car, or the clothes on their back. Not something intangible that can be copied a billion times a second without the original "owner" losing anything.

...but, I digress. No need to turn this thread into another one of those so I'll stop there.

TheMailMan78 · Apr 2, 2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Implying guilt is not liberitarian. It's like forcing everyone to buy health insurance because they could be guilty of using health services without paying for it. So, everyone must buy DRM just because you could be a pirate. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

"Property" is implied as something tangible like a house, a car, or the clothes on their back. Not something intangible that can be copied a billion times a second without the original "owner" losing anything.

...but, I digress. No need to turn this thread into another one of those so I'll stop there.

Its called intellectual property. However you have to have real intellect to understand that. But I agree we should stop there.

Mistral · Apr 2, 2012, 08:30 PM

Always-On, eh?

Late April's Fool or just a lame rumour on the first paragraph? You decide~!

Apr 2, 2012, 05:04 PM	#1
btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 14,982 (7.30/day) Thanks: 788 Thanked 12,899 Times in 5,650 Posts System Specs	Durango Implements Always-On DRM, Multi-GPU Microsoft's next-generation Xbox console, codenamed "Durango", will implement an "always-on" DRM, according to a VG 24/7 report. Always-on is a stringent anti-piracy measure that's already in use with some PC game titles published by Ubisoft, which requires the players to be connected to the Internet when playing. Even as its proponents (read: game publishers only), claim increased sales, it faces strong opposition from the gaming community. The Christmas 2013 (tentative) launch of Durango rides on the assumption that fast, always-on broadband Internet will have proliferated to every living room. Next up, there's talk of Durango featuring a unique multi-GPU hardware design that doesn't resemble symmetric PC multi-GPU technologies such as NVIDIA SLI or AMD CrossFire, but instead, the two GPUs will be tasked with rendering the same object redundantly. Perhaps Durango features native flicker-free stereoscopic 3D capability, and the two GPUs are merely rendering the two planes? Once again, there's talk that these GPUs will be designed by AMD. The CPU of Durango will feature "four or six" cores. Lastly, Blu-ray disc is back as the storage medium, in these latest rumors. Source: VG247, VR-Zone Last edited by btarunr; Apr 2, 2012 at 06:21 PM.

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Apr 2, 2012, 05:12 PM	#2
Jstn7477 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA Posts: 3,128 (2.30/day) Thanks: 386 Thanked 1,186 Times in 801 Posts System Specs	Gamers will probably miss the days where you could just plug the console into your TV and play/share games. I remember playing PS2 in the car years ago when I went on some road trips. What happens when XBOX "3" no longer has support from Microsoft? Will that kill the ability to even have a working XBOX "3" 20 years from now when people could still have fully functioning NES/SNES/N64 systems that are free of restrictions? I'm fine with Steam, but I'll hate the day that the Steam network ceases to exist (if the software now is still even compatible with computers then). __________________ Intel Crunchers (30 threads): 2x 3770K 4.3G (12t), 2600K 4G (6t), X3210 (3t), P-M 735A, P4 HT 3G AMD Crunchers (13 cores):1100T 3.6G (3t), 1045T 3.4G (2t), X3 8550 2.5G, X2 4400+ & 4200+, T64 ML-37 AMD Folders (6272 GCN cores): 2x 7950 1125/1475, 7970 1150/1650, 7770 NV Folders (2336 GF10x + 1344 GK104 cores):GTX 470 & 465 720/1715, 4x 460 768MB 825/2000, GTS 450, 660Ti 1228/6000 HEATWARE

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Apr 2, 2012, 05:23 PM	#4
FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!" Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: IA, USA Posts: 10,574 (6.29/day) Thanks: 1,752 Thanked 2,596 Times in 1,960 Posts System Specs	I said this was coming and there it is. __________________ Golden Rule of Programming: Never assume. try { SteamDownload(); } catch (Steamception ex) { RageQuit(); }

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Apr 2, 2012, 05:26 PM	#5
hardcore_gamer Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fabry Perot cavity,AlGaAs-GaAs Heterojunction Posts: 279 (0.33/day) Thanks: 96 Thanked 119 Times in 58 Posts System Specs	Son of a

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Apr 2, 2012, 05:27 PM	#6
Saidrex Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Latvia Posts: 110 (0.12/day) Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts System Specs	Greed knows no bounds. Fighting piracy this way hurts honest customers more than pirates.

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Apr 2, 2012, 05:46 PM	#8
phanbuey Eligible for custom title Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 5,010 (2.48/day) Thanks: 1,484 Thanked 959 Times in 812 Posts System Specs	There are two problems with always on DRM IMO: 1 - It is still crackable, so piracy will still be a problem for titles. 2 - It is a huge pain in the butt, wildly unpopular - and will actually hurt sales to some extent. Some game devs will take advantage of the always on DRM, until they realize that it does not stop piracy to any extent, as there will be some exploit which will get around it.

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Apr 2, 2012, 06:00 PM	#10
Papahyooie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Conway AR Posts: 525 (0.34/day) Thanks: 98 Thanked 88 Times in 67 Posts System Specs	And I try so hard to be good and not pirate... what they dont realize is, alot of times they force people who are generally honest into piracy to avoid stupid crap like this. I suppose you could actually buy the game and then "pirate" (download a cracked version even though you own it), but that just feels all sort of wrong. Why should I "support the developers" if they aren't going to support me? As it turns out, the guys supporting me are the ones doing the cracking, while the developers are trying to screw me. __________________ “i pwned my mom” -MomentoMoir Lappy: Asus G50VT-x1 2.13ghz / 4gb / 9800M GS Yes, I am a pirate, two hundred years too late... Feels like I've drowned... Feels like I've drowned... 50 61 70 61 68 79 6f 6f 69 65

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Apr 2, 2012, 06:31 PM	#12
nonkX3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Somewhere in Central Java Posts: 17 (0.04/day) Thanks: 14 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post System Specs	i just can't believe that geeks can be greedy too...

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Apr 2, 2012, 06:46 PM	#14
ZoneDymo Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 303 (0.19/day) Thanks: 1 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	VG24/7 also referred to durango still as Xbox 720. I think we can take whatever they claim with a grain of salt.

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Apr 2, 2012, 07:25 PM	#17
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Benchmarks:	Heaven: 983 with EVERYTHING maxed out 1920 x 1080 res

Apr 2, 2012, 07:34 PM	#18
TheMailMan78 Banstick Dummy Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Crystal River, FL Posts: 15,109 (6.93/day) Thanks: 1,337 Thanked 6,829 Times in 3,739 Posts System Specs	I think this is a great idea.......lol

System Name:	The Mailbox 3.5
Processor:	Intel i7 2600k @ 3.8GHz
Motherboard:	ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z
Cooling:	Stock
Memory:	G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB DDR3 1866: 9-9-9-24
Video Card:	EVGA GTX670 "FTW" Edition @ 1006MHz
Hard Disk:	256gb M4 SSD, 500Gb WD (7200)
Optical Drive:	LG - 24x Double-Layer DVD±RW/CD-RW Drive
CRT/LCD Model:	24" ASUS 1920 x 1080
Case:	Cooler Master 922 HAF
Sound Card:	SupremeFX X-Fi 2 with Bose Companion 2 speakers.
PSU:	SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
Software:	Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center 64bit
Benchmarks:	Benching is for bitches.

Apr 2, 2012, 07:46 PM	#19
Jizzler Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Geneva, FL, USA Posts: 3,010 (1.43/day) Thanks: 567 Thanked 606 Times in 487 Posts System Specs	Pffffttt... second GPU. Used to increase performance when they could simply use a slightly more powerful GPU? ReallY!?! Of course not. The second GPU and always-on DRM aren't two seperate items, the second GPU implements the always-on DRM! It'll be able to capture, compress and upload the display steam to the MS mothership. Doesn't stop there either, they'll record your movements and scan the inside of your room via Kinect. Why else would they spend so much money brainwashing us into believing that "active" gaming is fun when it's not? Shortly after, they'll release the "perfect game". With the information gathered, it'll adapt to the user, creating a scenerio where the add-ons, upgrades, and DLC will be nearly irresitable to buy. Can't crack it, they're always watching...

Processor:	AMD FX-8120
Motherboard:	ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional
Cooling:	Scythe Ninja 3
Memory:	G.Skill DDR3-1866 8GB x 2
Video Card:	Gigabyte GTX 660 2GB
Hard Disk:	Crucial M4 128GB, WD 640GB x 4, 2TB Seagate
Optical Drive:	Asus SATA DVD-RW
CRT/LCD Model:	Asus 24" HD+ (1920x1200)
Case:	Lian Li PC-A17B
Sound Card:	Onboard
PSU:	OCZ GameXtreme 700w
Software:	Windows 7 Ultimate

Apr 2, 2012, 08:08 PM	#21
Octavean Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 452 (0.24/day) Thanks: 3 Thanked 39 Times in 31 Posts System Specs	I might buy one but I likely wont play any games on it. I may use it only as a Media Center extender if that is still a feature. The dig there is if the console is sold at a loss, they will never recuperate that loss from me.

Processor:	Core i7 3930K
Motherboard:	Asus P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling:	Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus
Memory:	32GB DDR3 1600 (8x4GB)
Video Card:	GTX 670
Hard Disk:	Corsair Force Series 3 120GB SSD (2x) Samsung 840 500GB SSD
Optical Drive:	GGW-H20L Blu-Ray Burner
CRT/LCD Model:	Asus VE276Q, VE278Q and VK278Q triple 27” 1920x1080
Case:	Antec P180
Sound Card:	On Board
PSU:	Antec Earthwatts 650W
Software:	Windows 8 Pro 64bit

Apr 2, 2012, 08:18 PM	#23
FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!" Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: IA, USA Posts: 10,574 (6.29/day) Thanks: 1,752 Thanked 2,596 Times in 1,960 Posts System Specs	Implying guilt is not liberitarian. It's like forcing everyone to buy health insurance because they could be guilty of using health services without paying for it. So, everyone must buy DRM just because you could be a pirate. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? "Property" is implied as something tangible like a house, a computer, a car, or the clothes on their back. Not something intangible that can be copied a billion times a second without the original "owner" losing anything. ...but, I digress. No need to turn this thread into another one of those so I'll stop there. __________________ Golden Rule of Programming: Never assume. try { SteamDownload(); } catch (Steamception ex) { RageQuit(); }

Apr 2, 2012, 08:30 PM	#25
Mistral Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Montreal Posts: 356 (0.19/day) Thanks: 37 Thanked 54 Times in 32 Posts System Specs	Always-On, eh? Late April's Fool or just a lame rumour on the first paragraph? You decide~!

System Name:	Sairikiki / Nameless
Processor:	i7 920@3.36 / e8400@3.66
Motherboard:	GB EX58-UDP4 / GB EP45-DS4P
Cooling:	H60 / AC FreezerX
Memory:	OCZ Reaper 1600 / Buffalo 1066
Video Card:	7950 Windforce @ 1kMHz / XFX 6950 unlocked
Hard Disk:	Seagate 500 and WD 640 / Seagate 620x2 and WD 1TB
CRT/LCD Model:	PCBank 2560x1440 / Toshi 525U
Case:	AzzA 1000 / Tempest
Sound Card:	Auzen Forte / board
PSU:	Corsair HX750 / Corsair HX520
Software:	w7 64 / w7 64
Benchmarks:	I don't play benchmarks...