Problem with my power inverter

[jimporsche86]

I hope I put this in the right place,I'm new to the site..
My question is I bought a power bright 1100 watt inverter last week and I'm having an issue with buzzing through my box fans,something with the modified sine wave I guess.. I have the inverter running my tv in my living room and wanted to run my PS2 the tv and two fans but the buzzing has me puzzled how to fix my problem if it can be fixed.. The inverter is the Power Bright 1100 watt modified sine wave.. I have went to all my local electronic stores here in my town and everyone looks at me like they are in the stone age and have no idea what I'm even talking about.. I have searched online for answers but have really came up with no real solution.. Some say you can use a 1:1 transformer or a capacitor to help clean up the modified sine wave making it smoothed out I guess you could say.. Anyone that has had this issue or knows what to do to fix the buzzing would be awesome,I don't want to burn up my tv,ps2 or my fans....Thanks

[Swamp Monster]

Yes, you could use transformer for the fans, that might help to get rid of buzzing in fans or make it more silent at least. But that is inefficient. Filtering won't help much as it will not transform modified sine to pure sine wave. Other devices (TV, PS2) should be fine, because they have voltage converters built in, which changes that modified sine wave in to impulses first and only then to DC voltage.

[Sasqui]

Is this your model: http://www.powerbright.com/pdf/PW1100_spec_sheet.pdf


I suspect the buzzing is from a transformer in the unit... if you are concerned with the output, a power conditioner may help.


From Wiki
Modified sine waveThe output of a modified square wave, quasi square, or modified sine wave inverter is similar to a square wave output except that the output goes to zero volts for a time before switching positive or negative. It is simple and low cost (~$0.10USD/Watt) and is compatible with most electronic devices, except for sensitive or specialized equipment, for example certain laser printers, fluorescent lighting, audio equipment.

Most AC motors will run off this power source albeit at a reduction in efficiency of approximately 20%[2]

[jimporsche86]

Yep that is the model I have.. If the unit has a transformer in it that would make my box fans buzz? The inverter itself is not what is buzzing just some things on the 110/120 ac side.. Where can I get a power conditioner and do they make different ones,I'm not sure what one I would need.. I'm pretty new to this sort of stuff so it will have to be dummied down so I understand... Thank you for the info!!

Originally Posted by Sasqui

Is this your model: http://www.powerbright.com/pdf/PW1100_spec_sheet.pdf


I suspect the buzzing is from a transformer in the unit... if you are concerned with the output, a power conditioner may help.


From Wiki
Modified sine waveThe output of a modified square wave, quasi square, or modified sine wave inverter is similar to a square wave output except that the output goes to zero volts for a time before switching positive or negative. It is simple and low cost (~$0.10USD/Watt) and is compatible with most electronic devices, except for sensitive or specialized equipment, for example certain laser printers, fluorescent lighting, audio equipment.

Most AC motors will run off this power source albeit at a reduction in efficiency of approximately 20%[2]

[Jstn7477]

From my experience with several power inverters, I've had everything from incandescent light bulbs to laptop power bricks to TVs pick up or create noise from modified sine wave power inverters. It's pretty much the nature of them to do that as they must use semiconductor components to generate a fake oscillation and convert DC to AC. All I could possibly suggest (I do not have much background in electrical conversion) is trying a line conditioner or something to try and smooth out the power and make it mre representative of a natural sine wave.

Other than that, your electronics probably won't die from it. That's why I recommend using a DC to DC converter whenever possible for devices that can accept a low voltage DC input like laptops, etc.

[jimporsche86]

That is pretty much what I was reading on other sites,I can smooth out the buzzing but it still won't be true sine wave.. Is there any one transformer I should be looking for? Are there things I can get a donor transformer out of? Or should I just call Power Bright and see if I can exchange my MSW for a TSW inverter? Sorry for all the questions I'm new at all this,thank you for the help!!

Originally Posted by Swamp Monster

Yes, you could use transformer for the fans, that might help to get rid of buzzing in fans or make it more silent at least. But that is inefficient. Filtering won't help much as it will not transform modified sine to pure sine wave. Other devices (TV, PS2) should be fine, because they have voltage converters built in, which changes that modified sine wave in to impulses first and only then to DC voltage.

[jimporsche86]

Is the line conditioner the same thing as a power conditioner? Is that something that plugs into my 110/120 side of the inverter then the fan or whatever plugs into that? Thanks for the help!!

Originally Posted by Jstn7477

From my experience with several power inverters, I've had everything from incandescent light bulbs to laptop power bricks to TVs pick up or create noise from modified sine wave power inverters. It's pretty much the nature of them to do that as they must use semiconductor components to generate a fake oscillation and convert DC to AC. All I could possibly suggest (I do not have much background in electrical conversion) is trying a line conditioner or something to try and smooth out the power and make it mre representative of a natural sine wave.

Other than that, your electronics probably won't die from it. That's why I recommend using a DC to DC converter whenever possible for devices that can accept a low voltage DC input like laptops, etc.

[Sasqui]

Originally Posted by jimporsche86

The inverter itself is not what is buzzing just some things on the 110/120 ac side.. Where can I get a power conditioner and do they make different ones,I'm not sure what one I would need.. I'm pretty new to this sort of stuff so it will have to be dummied down so I understand... Thank you for the info!!

I read too damn fast! That is cause for alarm. I never even knew what a modified sine wave type inverter was till I looked it up.

From Wiki (again):
The terms "power conditioning" and "power conditioner" can be misleading, as the word "power" here refers to the electricity generally rather than the more technical electric power. Conditioners specifically work to smooth the sinusoidal A.C. wave form and maintain a constant voltage over varying loads.

Problem is, it'd likely be more expensive than buying a better inverter with a "true" sine wave.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=prid-20&...di%2Caps%2C194

[jimporsche86]

I'm not really sure why they make MSW inverters,I guess they have a place to fit in somewhere.. I didn't know the difference between the two until I learned the hard way I guess.. From what I just have been searching most power conditioners are $100 and way up from there.. The same size Pure wave inverter of the same wattage is $300 from the same place,the one I have was $103 so really would end up about the same price so 12 in one and a dozen in the other?

Originally Posted by Sasqui

I read too damn fast! That is cause for alarm. I never even knew what a modified sine wave type inverter was till I looked it up.

From Wiki (again):
The terms "power conditioning" and "power conditioner" can be misleading, as the word "power" here refers to the electricity generally rather than the more technical electric power. Conditioners specifically work to smooth the sinusoidal A.C. wave form and maintain a constant voltage over varying loads.

Problem is, it'd likely be more expensive than buying a better inverter with a "true" sine wave.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=prid-20&...di%2Caps%2C194

[Swamp Monster]

They makes MSW inverters because they are cheaper and pretty much all electronic devices with impulse mode power supply can work well with it.

I don't know for sure, but something like this should have a 1:1 transformer already built in as well as line filter: http://www.apc.com/products/family/?id=67

As you already know, True sine wave inverters are more expensive and there are no need to buy one, unless you are going to use medical equipment or other very sensitive electronics for critical tasks. Buzzing in fans/motors is annoying side-effect, but that's all.

[jimporsche86]

Yeah I guess I shouldn't say the MSW are no good it just wasn't what I expected it to be but it does work fine for the tv,not sure the picture sharpness and color are as it was on normal 110/120 true wave.. Thanks for the link,will look more into that tomorrow for sure..

Originally Posted by Swamp Monster

They makes MSW inverters because they are cheaper and pretty much all electronic devices with impulse mode power supply can work well with it.

I don't know for sure, but something like this should have a 1:1 transformer already built in as well as line filter: http://www.apc.com/products/family/?id=67

As you already know, True sine wave inverters are more expensive and there are no need to buy one, unless you are going to use medical equipment or other very sensitive electronics for critical tasks. Buzzing in fans/motors is annoying side-effect, but that's all.

[jimporsche86]

Ok I have done some searching on the (line conditioner,power conditioner and the APC-Line-R)...
I'm sure they will all work to (help) clean up the MSW but will never be TSW but,that is fine I'm just not sure which one would be my Best option.. I have narrowed it down to the line conditioner as my best option.. Any tips,,pros and cons to all three would be awesome.. Any thoughts to any or all three would maybe help also.. My inverter is 1100 watts should my (filter)which ever one I choose be the same wattage or does that really matter? Thanks.....

[bencrutz]

Originally Posted by jimporsche86

Ok I have done some searching on the (line conditioner,power conditioner and the APC-Line-R)...
I'm sure they will all work to (help) clean up the MSW but will never be TSW but,that is fine I'm just not sure which one would be my Best option.. I have narrowed it down to the line conditioner as my best option.. Any tips,,pros and cons to all three would be awesome.. Any thoughts to any or all three would maybe help also.. My inverter is 1100 watts should my (filter)which ever one I choose be the same wattage or does that really matter? Thanks.....

you'd be better of with slightly higher wattage

[fullinfusion]

Just a silly question but you did ground the ENTIRE UNIT RIGHT? and not just use the black negative cable as the ground?

[jimporsche86]

Cool thank you for the info....

Originally Posted by bencrutz

you'd be better of with slightly higher wattage

[jimporsche86]

Yep I grounded the ground terminal on the case to the battery with a 8 AWG and used bigger cables for my positive and negative as supplied with the inverter..

Originally Posted by fullinfusion

Just a silly question but you did ground the ENTIRE UNIT RIGHT? and not just use the black negative cable as the ground?

[jacknarvy]

If you are having any problem with your power inverter then i would suggest you not to open it without instructions of any expert. Take a special care of it and awsare from any kinds of wire faults.

[jimporsche86]

I just unhooked it all together.. My wanting to have it was to run my tv in the living room so to save electricity but the charger I had to charge my battery ended up using More electricity then just having the tv running off of the wall outlet.. I am sick of electric companies taking my money and was looking to try to save Even $20-$30 a month but my charger made it go up $10 so I'm not messing with it now.. If I can find a more efficient way of charging I might try it again

[Steevo]

Originally Posted by jimporsche86

I just unhooked it all together.. My wanting to have it was to run my tv in the living room so to save electricity but the charger I had to charge my battery ended up using More electricity then just having the tv running off of the wall outlet.. I am sick of electric companies taking my money and was looking to try to save Even $20-$30 a month but my charger made it go up $10 so I'm not messing with it now.. If I can find a more efficient way of charging I might try it again

You never realized the inefficiency of charging a battery then using that charge to power something?


The only way you are going to get something like this to work is to spend more on solar or wind power and store that power.

[jimporsche86]

I didn't realize the inefficiency at the time but I do now,learn as you go the hard way I guess... I live in an apartment so I can't do a setup with wind,the only way solar would work is to just put a panel in front of a window and not sure that would even work as none get direct sunlight... I'm probably just going to skip the entire thing for now...

[jetpr]

you can use running capacitor in the output of the inverter to clean the noise

[jimporsche86]

Thanks,what is a running capacitor,is there a difference between that and say one out of a microwave or something like that??

Originally Posted by jetpr

you can use running capacitor in the output of the inverter to clean the noise

[jetpr]

Running Capacitor is the one capacitor the continue running after the inverter output and this maintein the current stable and clean

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Run-Capacito...item1c2a455559

[jimporsche86]

Ok thanks,I'll check into that.. I'll have to find a diagram on how to hook that up,I'm probably not the smartest when it comes to anything electric.. Does the 370-440V matter being it will be on 110V??

Originally Posted by jetpr

Running Capacitor is the one capacitor the continue running after the inverter output and this maintein the current stable and clean

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Run-Capacito...item1c2a455559

[jetpr]

yes that work perfect

to use the running capacitor connect one leg to ground and the other to 110v