AMD Readies Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

What are you talking about? They dropped the price and had it hiked before NVIDIA dropped the 680. Now AMD is a far better deal. Next we will go into "NVIDIA makes way more profit" BS.

What are you talking about? The HD 7970 never dropped its price, and the GTX 680 was introduced here at the exact same price.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by entropy13

What are you talking about? The HD 7970 never dropped its price, and the GTX 680 was introduced here at the exact same price.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...ght=7970+price

Plus.....you can FIND a 7970. 680's are like catching leprechauns in the US.

[symmetrical]

Originally Posted by entropy13

What are you talking about? The HD 7970 never dropped its price, and the GTX 680 was introduced here at the exact same price.

People are referring to U.S. pricing.

An AMD 7970 was $549 at launch, but is now at $479 after the GTX 680 launched at $499.

Despite the fanboy bickering, the 680 vs 7970 had the 680 with 5-10% better and the 7970 5-10% better at other games, essentially going back and forth but with the 680 still doing it with lower power consumption. Fact is at the time, the 680 seem like a real value due to being $50 cheaper.

Today it is much different considering that people can hardly find a 680 for $499, even at $529 and up. Retailers are price gouging everywhere for a 680 up to $600 which isn't worth it.

I built a computer for a friend and was lucky to snag an HIS 7970 for $449. I myself was lucky to snag a Zotac GTX 680 for $400 off craigslist.

Either way, the consumers are getting the shaft in this whole ordeal.

AMD releasing a "GHz" edition is a bit pointless since pretty much every single 7970 can clock to 1ghz easy.

[Crap Daddy]

Useless. Partners already have higher clocked 7970. 1GHz will not surpass the 680 while consuming more W than the reference 7970. All the reviews declared the 680 a winner, the game is over at the top so this will not change anything from a marketing and reputation point of view.
I'm not trying to say that the 680 is (much) better than the 7970 but that is the verdict.

What might be with this GHz edition is that they know the 670 will compete directly with the 925 Mhz 7970 and they have to break clear. This is just a supposition because I really don't see a point of a higher clocked 7970 by AMD.

GK104 in any shape and form is better than Tahiti and Pitcairn but AMD has the 7850 and if they price it competitively the 7870 in a space were NV has nothing. Of course availability for NV products is a big question right now.

[Am*]

Originally Posted by BarbaricSoul

Mind giving some source for the information your giving about a later release date, because all I can find point to Q3 2012, which equals August this year, or there about.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1234921/z...-2-information

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/02/07/g...s-out-at-last/

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-kepler-gk...ected-q3-2012/

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-flagship-...u-slated-2012/

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2224710

http://videocardz.com/31650/geforce-...-512bit-memory

I'm seeing plenty of information about GK110 being released in Q3 2012

Most of the sources you quoted mention the same source, and none of them are credible. I made my own prediction (and I'm NOT calling it credible, my prediction is my personal opinion), which you can call me out on later, but I use logical reasons:

1. At the moment, their "mid-range" GTX 680 is way cheaper to produce than the proposed GK110, and no doubt has much better yields.
2. They have yet to launch the rest of the lineup. Drivers are also yet to mature.
3. Why EOL your own products with a more expensive one when you can keep making the same one and gain much bigger profit margins?
4. There is very little demand for the current top of the line cards for REAL world usage. There is next to no demand for anything faster, since we have yet to find a game to push the capability of the current cards, let alone future GPUs.

Originally Posted by sanadanosa

Most review site talk about bad 7970 crossfire performance on several game due to AMD bad driver and I`m sure they are not fanboys

That's called microstuttering, and it happens as much on Nvidia cards as it does on AMD GPUs.

And what do you want to say to the people with SINGLE GTX 680s crashing/having poor performance in games? Both companies have crap drivers to begin with, and early adopters will always get shafted with driver problems, no matter what camp you're siding with, so your point is invalid.

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...ght=7970+price

Plus.....you can FIND a 7970. 680's are like catching leprechauns in the US.

There are price cuts indeed...in the US.

Over here you can find 680s just as easily as 7970s. It's like they know that Asia is now the better market than the US.

[theoneandonlymrk]

competition is largely irellivant in the market since hardly anyone is going to buy a 5xx nvidia card , no one can find a 6xx nvidia card and no real supply exists therof, so Amd has the right card at all pricepoints in that what choice do you have if your a system builder.

Off topic i just put a A8 3870K +HD6670 system together and despite manys claims , stock it plays anything reasonably on med to low settings and still looked good, a 7970 at any speed(stck or 1Ghz) will spank any game at 1080p the average gamers res and even a 7850 will do a good job and i CAN buy one now ,i know who i thinks winning this gpu round.

the gk110 imho will be Nv's compute card, no great gfx leap but cuda fixed and i doubt well see it this year and it wont be a 6xx but the next alleged gen 7xx, Amd have got to have their 8xxx cooked or cooking by now

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by entropy13

There are price cuts indeed...in the US.

Over here you can find 680s just as easily as 7970s. It's like they know that Asia is now the better market than the US.

Not if you are paying more money for the same product it aint.

[the54thvoid]

Originally Posted by BarbaricSoul

I'm seeing plenty of information about GK110 being released in Q3 2012

wow - that's not 6 sources mate.

3 of your sources are quoting another of your sources and OBR is also one of the sources (and using same source from first reference). Semi Accurate gave the tape out info first and anand and wccf use it. Wccf is quite poor at info (i know I've often visited in the three months before kepler and all the stuff was way off base.)
OBR is a ludicrous site for info.

The fact is - there is no release date for a GK110 part. As far as NV PR are concerned it doesn't yet exist. What is apparent from the tech side is that GK104 is a gaming card with GPGPU very much depleted.
GK110 is an HPC (High Performance Computing) part. It should have been GK100 but as CD alludes to, it wouldn't work - it was a power draw monster. This is why GK 104 is so popular - it's efficient - but it's also generally shit at gpgpu.

The GTX 680 is an excellent card for gaming. The 7970 is an excellent card for gaming and gpgpu (if that floats your boat).

I also did calculations in another thread that clearly show the GTX 680's 37% faster clocks (compared to GTX 580) result in a 29% fps improvement. The 7970's 5.11% faster clocks (compared to 6970) result in a 41.56% fps improvement. One of these cards is an excellent architectural design improvement and one of these cards is clocked ridiculously higher than last gen (and gpgpu crippled).
http://img.techpowerup.org/120426/Untitled.png

A GHz 7970 might be good for PR but they'll need some fanfare to detract from the strange attraction the 680 has gathered. Yes the 680 is good but it's not THAT good.

And on the driver front - legendary crossfire problems but single card - pretty much none. Do we want to drag up Nvidias fan stopping card frying driver fuck up from a year or so back?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

wow - that's not 6 sources mate.

3 of your sources are quoting another of your sources and OBR is also one of the sources (and using same source from first reference). Semi Accurate gave the tape out info first and anand and wccf use it. Wccf is quite poor at info (i know I've often visited in the three months before kepler and all the stuff was way off base.)
OBR is a ludicrous site for info.

The fact is - there is no release date for a GK110 part. As far as NV PR are concerned it doesn't yet exist. What is apparent from the tech side is that GK104 is a gaming card with GPGPU very much depleted.
GK110 is an HPC (High Performance Computing) part. It should have been GK100 but as CD alludes to, it wouldn't work - it was a power draw monster. This is why GK 104 is so popular - it's efficient - but it's also generally shit at gpgpu.

The GTX 680 is an excellent card for gaming. The 7970 is an excellent card for gaming and gpgpu (if that floats your boat).

I also did calculations in another thread that clearly show the GTX 680's 37% faster clocks (compared to GTX 580) result in a 29% fps improvement. The 7970's 5.11% faster clocks (compared to 6970) result in a 41.56% fps improvement. One of these cards is an excellent architectural design improvement and one of these cards is clocked ridiculously higher than last gen (and gpgpu crippled).
http://img.techpowerup.org/120426/Untitled.png

A GHz 7970 might be good for PR but they'll need some fanfare to detract from the strange attraction the 680 has gathered. Yes the 680 is good but it's not THAT good.

And on the driver front - legendary crossfire problems but single card - pretty much none. Do we want to drag up Nvidias fan stopping card frying driver fuck up from a year or so back?

AMD has crappy support for OpenGL standards on consumer cards. I know this first hand and so does Crazyeyes.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

This is why GK 104 is so popular - it's efficient - but it's also generally shit at gpgpu.

I see lots of people say this, but noone quantifies WHY it's not good at GPGPU. Any ideas?

[theoneandonlymrk]

I read somewhere its double precision performance in compute is a third that of a 7970 and even lower then what it replaced the 580

even its single precision performance is not much compared to the 7970

it folds bad

[phanbuey]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

What are you talking about? They dropped the price and had it hiked before NVIDIA dropped the 680. Now AMD is a far better deal. Next we will go into "NVIDIA makes way more profit" BS.

That is exactly what im talking about... they had it hiked before the 680. So what did people not do? they didn't buy a ton of price hiked 7970's. Instead they waited for nvidia to get their sh*t together.

Point is people who own a 7970 are not in the market for a 680. That is where AMD f'ed it up - they sold fewer 7970's initially, and they let nvidia have a huge chunk of sales by keeping the 7970 so expensive, and not selling as many units as they could have (think back to the 5 series, where the market actually pushed the price UP from MSRP).

I am coming from the view of the consumer... just what I see. Never have i speculated about who makes more profit than who, nor do I care.

[BarbaricSoul]

Why does everyone think I want a GK110 for gaming purposes? Do you not see my WCG tag? For gaming, my 5870 crossfire set is real close to being equal to a single GTX680/7970/6990 system. I don't need anymore graphical power than what I have for gaming. But what I do have is a grandfather that died of Azlphimers, a father that has had a round with colon cancer, and a mother that has diabetus. Now you tell me why I want GK110.

[the54thvoid]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I see lots of people say this, but noone quantifies WHY it's not good at GPGPU. Any ideas?

Yeah, Anand did a good review.

Open CL and compute is bad for the 680 but in shader performance it does well.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by BarbaricSoul

Why does everyone think I want a GK110 for gaming purposes? Do you not see my WCG tag? For gaming, my 5870 crossfire set is real close to being equal to a single GTX680/7970/6990 system. I don't need anymore graphical power than what I have for gaming. But what I do have is a grandfather that died of Azlphimers, a father that has had a round with colon cancer, and a mother that has diabetus. Now you tell me why I want GK110.

You need a priest not a GPU.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

You need a priest not a GPU.

yeah but a gfx card chats less shit and Does play crisis

[BarbaricSoul]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

You need a priest not a GPU.

that's just mean dude, uncool

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Not if you are paying more money for the same product it aint.

Product A and B are both $300 in Country A. Product A and B are $250 in Country B.

There is a $20 tax in Country A that isn't present in Country B. So to "equalize" the prices, it's $280 for Country A and $250 for Country B.

And Country B is a better market for Country A, looking from the supplier side???

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

Yeah, Anand did a good review.

Open CL and compute is bad for the 680 but in shader performance it does well.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5699/45163.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5699/45164.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5699/45166.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5699/45193.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5699/45165.png

Where's the explanation...I don't care about results..I know it's slower. I want to know WHY it's slower, yet faster in games.

I mean, after all, wouldn't that kind of be a selling feature for HD7970? IT does what GTX 680 cannot?

Personally, i think it's a lack or internal caches that are the issue ,and are also why it runs comparitively cool. Buty I do not hear suc hthings, I jsut hear peopel claiming it's slower.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by BarbaricSoul

that's just mean dude, uncool

I didn't mean it that way. Its just with that amount of bad luck you seemed cursed.

[Crap Daddy]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I see lots of people say this, but noone quantifies WHY it's not good at GPGPU. Any ideas?

Usually people who bought the 7970 or use AMD found 2 problems with the 680. One is overclockability and the second is GPGPU. Oh, and I forgot about the VRAM 3GB vs. 2GB.

[lucas4]

Am I the only person who thinks AMD's decision to change the naming structure on the 6K series and up was a bad idea?

Instead of confusing people with multiple variations of a GPU (standard edition and GHz edition) with the same name (HD 7970), with their old naming scheme they could have just bumped the speed and released the card with the 90 suffix as a 7x90 instead. Now they have to mess about because the dual GPU card will be the 7990.

Perhaps I'm being picky , but it seems they caused more hassle in the past and present with the changed naming scheme than they did good.

[BarbaricSoul]

Eh, I don't look at it as bad luck, I just look at it as life. Bad luck would be if my parent had died also. Grandpa did live to 92 years old and was driving until he was 91. We could all only hope to be as lucky as he was in life.


BTW, I'm not a 20 year old kid with mid-40ties parents. I'll be 41 this summer. My parents are well into thier 60ties.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Where's the explanation...I don't care about results..I know it's slower. I want to know WHY it's slower, yet faster in games.

IMHO the 680 is so much better in games due to the doubling and more of its polymorph engines and the high amount of tessalators etc ,they have more(lower efficiency) fixed function units especially made for gameing , its that simple

I think AMd's shader at these speeds is more effiecient and their polymorph and tesselation engines are ahead of nvidias ,they use less of them though