The Mass Effect 3 Thread

[techtard]

You get the reward after the event is done. If the overall goal is achieved too, you get free Victory and Commendation packs.
Sometimes it takes a few days after the event is over. I had one that took until the following Thursday after one of the ME3 events.

There is a new multiplayer DLC coming out on the 29th, it is free if you have an online pass for this game.
Play a lot this weekend, and save your money until the DLC comes out to buy Spectre and Premium Spectre packs from the shop. Then you might be able to snag the new classes or weapons.

[crazyeyesreaper]

nobody really cares at this point sadly ME3 is dead for most TPUers now lol everyone gave up caring awhile back.

[pr0n Inspector]

EC is ok, not great, but okay. But the best part is that it shuts those overanalyzing NGE-fanboyish IT nut jobs up.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by pr0n Inspector

..the best part is that it shuts those overanalyzing NGE-fanboyish IT nut jobs up.

So true, I was getting so sick of the intellectual wanna be comments about indoctrination theory. So many were certain Shepard was indoctrinated and just imagining everything leading up to and including the ending.

One in particular is this young player that was hired as mod on one forum I used to hang out on. He acts like he knows everything about the game, yet is oblivious to the fact that there's no clear indication that you have to do certain missions in a specific order to avoid getting locked out of some. He kept insisting I just didn't know how to play the game, yet admitted he lacked the skill to play most shooters on anything but the default difficulty.

Why is it hybrid RPG/Shooter games always bring out the lunatic fanboys that invariably always make up excuses for every major flaw in the games they obsess over?

[FordGT90Concept]

Indoctrination Theory got a lot of support because it made sense. The official ending, Extended Cut included, really doesn't. It's a cop-out, a nuke-the-story, disenfranchise everyone but worshipers of Bioware ending.

For me, Mass Effect effectively ended when Shephered killed Soverign. Everything that came after that was trash.

[techtard]

The EC ending was far better than the original, but the ending to the game was still pretty lame. The fact that the lead writer was shifted over to SW:TOR really showed.

If you look into the ending though, there could be some subtle context with the the Reapers and Catalyst. But it's not really worth examining. EA has turned Mass Effect into just another cash grab with their endless DLC and rushed development cycles.

[BumbleBee]

Originally Posted by techtard

The EC ending was far better than the original, but the ending to the game was still pretty lame. The fact that the lead writer was shifted over to SW:TOR really showed.

If you look into the ending though, there could be some subtle context with the the Reapers and Catalyst. But it's not really worth examining. EA has turned Mass Effect into just another cash grab with their endless DLC and rushed development cycles.

Mass Effect was penned to be a trilogy from the very beginning. Drew Karpyshyn joined Star Wars: The Old Republic because he penned Star Wars: Knights of the old Republic and was probably no longer needed. the franchise has sold 10.2 million copies including PC which isn't a lot. I think it's the money EA spends on marketing and people who are emotionally attached to the series that make it bigger than it really is.

[FordGT90Concept]

"10.2 million isn't a lot?" It was more than enough for EA to make spin-offs, sequels, and bring it to PlayStation 3. Only ME3 was heavily marketed.

[BumbleBee]

EA isn't Activision. Mass Effect is made out to be this larger than life IP like a Gears of War, Halo, The Elder Scrolls, Battlefield, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, etc but it doesn't sell anywhere close to those properties.

[FordGT90Concept]

Mass Effect sold about 3 million copies for each title. That's pretty close to TES (better than some like Oblivion and worse than others like Skyrim). Nothing to scoff at, regardless. That's actually exceptional for being a young IP.

[BumbleBee]

Oblivion sold over 6 million copies on X360/PS3 worldwide. not even counting PC.

[FordGT90Concept]

The link I was looking at must have been for one platform. Morrowind sold over 4 million copies so that's a closer comparison. Mass Effect 2 sold over 4 million copies too.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ame_franchises
It sold more than Rock Band, Hitman, The Lord of the Rings, Bomberman, Colin McRae Rally, EA Sports NASCAR series, RollerCoaster Tycoon, BioShock, Ninja Gaiden, Doom, etc.

[BumbleBee]

would you agree that Assassin's Creed feels like a smaller IP compared to Mass Effect?

[FordGT90Concept]

Of course not but it also has 5 cores games (4 already out) and 7 spin-offs of the franchise. Mass Effect only has 3 games and 3 spin-offs. Assassin's Creed was also heavily advertised from the beginning. e.g. (this one got a lot of air time)

[BumbleBee]

I feel Assassin's Creed is a smaller IP despite the first game selling more copies than Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3. Mass Effect is the most ambitious game I have ever played. lots of games have shitty endings. all the hate is because people are emotionally attached to it. if EA announced a sequel tomorrow the internet would go crazy but Assassin's Creed.. not so much

Assassin's Creed (X360) - 5.11m
Assassin's Creed (PS3) - 4.39m
Assassin's Creed II (X360) - 4.79m
Assassin's Creed II (PS3) - 4.97m
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood (X360) - 4.18m
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood (PS3) - 4.04m
Assassin's Creed: Revelations (X360) - 3.56m
Assassin's Creed: Revelations (PS3) - 3.48m

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Indoctrination Theory got a lot of support because it made sense. The official ending, Extended Cut included, really doesn't. It's a cop-out, a nuke-the-story, disenfranchise everyone but worshipers of Bioware ending.

I wasn't arguing whether it made sense so much as whether there was any credibility to the mass assumption of it being what the devs were conveying. There was simply no evidence to support it.

That said, I also feel those buying into that "theory", which is really a misnomer itself, were misrepresenting what indoctrination really is as portrayed in the actual parts of the game that do mention it. It's more like mind/body control, akin to what the Combine were doing on the Citadel in HL2, not a hypnotic VR dream state where what you imagine seems real.

Basically the intellectual wanna be fanboys created there own version of indoctrination, and I'm willing to bet that if the devs were to reveal some of their biggest reasons for the EC, that would be one of the main ones given for them deciding to explain things further. The only difference is they wouldn't dare call some of their most avid fans intellectual wanna be fanboys, even if it's the truth.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by BumbleBee

I feel Assassin's Creed is a smaller IP despite the first game selling more copies than Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3. Mass Effect is the most ambitious game I have ever played. lots of games have shitty endings. all the hate is because people are emotionally attached to it. if EA announced a sequel tomorrow the internet would go crazy but Assassin's Creed.. not so much

I agree. I would rather play Mass Effect (original) than Assassin's Creed (orginal).

I disagree about the emotional attachment. There are a lot of people as emotionally attached to Assassin's Creed as they are to Mass Effect. The difference is, Ubisoft hasn't done anything major to alienate that attachment where Bioware did.

That extends to the mention of the sequel. The dismal experience of Mass Effect 3 will make them leary and vocal about Mass Effect 4 (or whatever). A trust was betrayed.


Also keep in mind that Mass Effect got a lot of bad publicity that Assassin's Creed largely dodged.

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

I wasn't arguing whether it made sense so much as whether there was any credibility to the mass assumption of it being what the devs were conveying. There was simply no evidence to support it.

There wasn't "mass assumption of it being what the devs were conveying." There was hope that it is what the devs were conveying. It wasn't long after the indoctrination theory got attention that the devs said they weren't going that way. Hopeful fans simply got another dose of disappointment.

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

That said, I also feel those buying into that "theory", which is really a misnomer itself, were misrepresenting what indoctrination really is as portrayed in the actual parts of the game that do mention it. It's more like mind/body control, akin to what the Combine were doing on the Citadel in HL2, not a hypnotic VR dream state where what you imagine seems real.

At no point in any of the games do they describe how, specifically, indoctrination works. All we know is that it happens when exposed to Reaper tech for long periods of time (scientist logs during the Reaper IFF mission, discussion with Saren), that people realize they are losing control of their mental faculties (Saren, T'soni's mother), people can fight back temporarily (Saren, T'soni's mother), and eventually, the Reapers make all the decisions (Arrival).

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Basically the intellectual wanna be fanboys created there own version of indoctrination, and I'm willing to bet that if the devs were to reveal some of their biggest reasons for the EC, that would be one of the main ones given for them deciding to explain things further. The only difference is they wouldn't dare call some of their most avid fans intellectual wanna be fanboys, even if it's the truth.

Fans filled in the holes the devs didn't want to. They didn't change what indoctrination meant.

The fact of the matter is that even if Bioware deemed indoctrination theory true, it gained so much attention that there could have easily been a legal battle as a result of it. So, EA made the business decision to add more cutscenes (relatively inexpensive; no chance of legal battle) and wash their hands clean of it.

[crazyeyesreaper]

yea the BBB essentially said EA / Bioware could be sued they essentially said X X X was in the game blah blah they made those promises with their marketing, essentially something most companies are smart enough to avoid. By releasing the Extended Cut they get to wash their hands clean turn a rabid angry fan base into just a dissapointed one and avoid a potential lawsuit that according to the BBB they would pretty much lose. so there you go.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

There wasn't "mass assumption of it being what the devs were conveying." There was hope that it is what the devs were conveying. It wasn't long after the indoctrination theory got attention that the devs said they weren't going that way. Hopeful fans simply got another dose of disappointment.

The very fact that they claimed it a theory, which like a hypothesis involves an educated guess, indicates they were in fact trying to postulate as to what the devs were conveying. The reason I call it a misnomer is there's nothing to go on to lead one to believe the ending was imagined, or that such a scenario is indoctrination at all.

At no point in any of the games do they describe how, specifically, indoctrination works.

Technically they do. They don't really need to tell you, because they SHOW you. We can clearly see how the Harbinger controls the Collectors for instance as far as how indoctrination works. They are like puppets under the mental and physical control of their hosts. To assume that one could on there own completely fantasize an extraneous existence via a dream state is an unsupported leap of the imagination. Unlike a theory, it is more of conjecture than fact based on what we've actually SEEN in game.

Fans filled in the holes the devs didn't want to. They didn't change what indoctrination meant.

More conjecture and opinion. The fans, as always, see what they WANT to see when there's something about a story they don't like, esp one that goes on through 3 installments. Again, there's nothing whatsoever to support that indoctrination can involve a detached dream state, and the devs have in fact shown in the EC that those believing in a so called indoctrination "theory" were in fact wrong. Though I do see many flaws in the story, I can also understand the frustration of a writer being told his version of something is wrong. You either accept it as written and amended, or you don't. There's no sense in being a writer wanna be and trying to change the story though.

The fact of the matter is that even if Bioware deemed indoctrination theory true, it gained so much attention that there could have easily been a legal battle as a result of it. So, EA made the business decision to add more cutscenes (relatively inexpensive; no chance of legal battle) and wash their hands clean of it.

I don't buy that at all. That's about as silly as the talk about what the BBB had to say about the game, which, let's face it, is a business like any other that will say what people want to hear to get subscribers.

The outcomes may have been cookie cutter and very subtle, esp in the stock ending, but they only promised differences without giving away specif details. They didn't offer the EC to avoid a mass lawsuit, they did it to please what in many cases appear to be insatiable fans. Any attempted lawsuit would have been a waste of time, though still could have tarnished their rep further even coming out on the winning end. The EC was more of a PR thing than a legal thing.

[pr0n Inspector]

Actually, ME 2 and 3 never happened, Shepard was indoctrinated when he boarded Citadel to fight Sovereign. It's all in his head.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Technically they do. They don't really need to tell you, because they SHOW you. We can clearly see how the Harbinger controls the Collectors for instance as far as how indoctrination works. They are like puppets under the mental and physical control of their hosts. To assume that one could on there own completely fantasize an extraneous existence via a dream state is an unsupported leap of the imagination. Unlike a theory, it is more of conjecture than fact based on what we've actually SEEN in game.

Collectors is what the Reapers turned the Prothean race into after thousands of years of servitude. Indoctrination doesn't really apply to them anymore as they said in Mass Effect 2. The Collectors are a servant species just like the 4-legged green creatures on Citadel. Indoctrination, in the context of the games, only applies to species that can resist (Krogan, Asari, Salarian, Human, etc.).

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

The outcomes may have been cookie cutter and very subtle, esp in the stock ending, but they only promised differences without giving away specif details. They didn't offer the EC to avoid a mass lawsuit, they did it to please what in many cases appear to be insatiable fans. Any attempted lawsuit would have been a waste of time, though still could have tarnished their rep further even coming out on the winning end. The EC was more of a PR thing than a legal thing.

EA only responds to money. EA saw a massive class-action lawsuit over false advertising coming if they didn't do something.

EC didn't "please" anyone but the mere promise of it coming calmed the drumbeats calling for a lawsuit.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by pr0n Inspector

Actually, ME 2 and 3 never happened, Shepard was indoctrinated when he boarded Citadel to fight Sovereign. It's all in his head.

That was merely a so called "theory" that the devs verbally refuted. There was never anything in any of the ME games to suggest that indoctrination was anything more than the Reapers mentally and physical controlling various species for use as ground troops while being directly overseen by them.

The whole idea of using indoctrination for elaborate brainwash was quite a leap of the imagination, and one that doesn't even make sense. Why would they go to all that trouble only to have Shepard choosing for himself whether to control, destroy or join with the Reapers? If they wanted to brainwash him, don't you think they'd convince him that all organics needed to be controlled by the Reapers?

@FordGT,
I'm not sure you're grasping what indoctrinate even means. It means to instruct and/or imbue with a partisan or biased belief or point of view. That has to be done before a state of control is achieved. The instructing part can still be done AFTER control is achieved. To imply indoctrination doesn't apply to the Collectors is rather missing the point, because they would have to be susceptible to indoctrination to even BE controlled in the first place, and part of indoctrination can be instruction too. Also, Husks are former Humans, so to suggest Humans are resistant to indoctrination is not true either.

I'm not recalling exactly what part of ME2 you're implying says indoctrination no longer applies to the Protheans, but I'm sure you probably misinterpreted what was said. Like I said, you don't get to a state of control without first using indoctrination, so to imply a controlled race is not indoctrinated is like saying a cultist hasn't been brainwashed. Harbinger clearly continues to instruct the Collectors too. And Husks do tend to disprove your Humans aren't susceptible claim.

Honestly, I don't know why some are STILL clinging to this so called "theory" which hasn't enough facts behind it to even qualify as one, ESP after the devs themselves have already refuted it.

[FordGT90Concept]

Indoctrination only happened when directly exposed to Reaper tech. Specifically, it was talked about inside of Soverign, inside the derelict Reaper, and the Arrival DLC with the pulsing Reaper beacon.

Husks are not indoctrinated. They are effectively minature, expendable Reapers (attack everything that isn't a Reaper).

I think you really need to play through Mass Effect again, specifically the main plot (where Saren keeps talking about indoctrination) and Noveria (where Liara's mother talks about being indoctrinated).

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Honestly, I don't know why some are STILL clinging to this so called "theory" which hasn't enough facts behind it to even qualify as one, ESP after the devs themselves have already refuted it.

You do realize you're arguing about a work of fiction, right? There are no facts--only previous fiction.

[Frag Maniac]

What you're not getting is there's a difference between initial and ongoing indoctrination. If all the Reapers needed to do to turn a given species into their minions was the initial lab based indoctrination, why would Harbinger need to at any given time swoop down and posses a Collector to take direct control of one? Again, check the definition of indoctrinate. It's not just about imbuing, it's about instructing too, and clearly Harbinger is instructing out in the field vs just in a lab.

The Geth got the tech from the Reapers to reanimate Humans into Husks, so it's not entirely true that Humans would be resistant to indoctrination, which again is just an ME way of saying Reaper control.

I find it odd those that were wrong about their whole indoctrination "theory", which was more of a concocted idea of theirs, would continue to try and lecture others on what indoctrination itself is, when obviously they got some major story points about it wrong.

The ME universe and story is what it is. It's not necessarily what some WANT it to be, but I don't see anyone claiming they've got better ideas putting out enough good ones of their own to string an entire story together that has any more sense to it than what Bioware have done.

My bigger complaint is the need to coddle the series gameplay wise. If you want the best ending outcomes, skills, squad effectiveness and mission access, you have to be extremely careful what choices you make and import from an already fairly buffed profile to play on Insanity. I just tried the mission to rescue the Primearc in ME3 from an ME 2 import and even though I had a fair amount of squad upgrade points to work with I had to reduce the difficulty due to such craptastic weapon access.

Then there's the need to do certain missions in the right order to avoid missing some. I quit my session last night just being fed up with the game. I can't even import the Shepard look I want into ME3. ME 2 has some great profile looks, but you can't import them to ME3. There's just so many little things about this game that add up to one big disappointment.

[FordGT90Concept]

Harbringer was not in the Milky Way Galaxy for the entire duration of Mass Effect 2. He was in the dark space between galaxies heading towards Milky Way, leading the Reaper swarm.

All Collectors are basically advanced husks. Because they are all Reapers, it's possible for Harbringer to remotely possess them and put them through the same metamorphasis we saw Saren (whom got Reaper tech installed in him) undergo at the conclusion of Mass Effect when Soverign "assumed control." Think of Collectors as robots--that's effectively what they are.

Harbringer didn't need to "swoop down and posses a Collector" but he did because he was fascinated by Shepherd. Shepherd also posed a direct threat to the Reaper's goals.


The Geth were never Reapers--they were never indoctrinated like organics are. Soverign introduced a computational error that made them side with the Reapers. This was the case in Mass Effect 1 & 2. In Mass Effect 3, Legion (or the Legion-is-dead stand-in) got Reaper tech/code installed in him to give them more computational power. Legion was acting as a super computer amplifying the intelligence of the geth. At the end of that quest, you decide between destroying that code inside of Legion or sharing that code with all geth.