CPU runs hot at stock speeds on stock cooler?

[Black Panther]

So I was given this pc to repair because it was shutting down.
It resulted the CPU was over-heating (90+ centigrade).

I replaced the TIM with AS 5, now the CPU is idling at 53 degrees and loads at 68 degrees. Which I think is too hot for stock clocks and speeds, even though it's on the stock cooler.

I replaced TIM again, but I'm sure I did a good job because it's not my first time...

I checked the bios to make sure everything is really at stock, and even put the voltage on "power saving" for good measure.

This CPU has always run warm. It was bought used, and presumably the previous owner overclocked it heavily...

It's a 5000 Black Edition.

Could the over-clocking and over-volting by the previous owner have damaged this CPU so that it runs hot permanently now?

[FreedomEclipse]

what heatsink are you using?

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

So I was given this pc to repair because it was shutting down.
It resulted the CPU was over-heating (90+ centigrade).

I replaced the TIM with AS 5, now the CPU is idling at 53 degrees and loads at 68 degrees. Which I think is too hot for stock clocks and speeds, even though it's on the stock cooler.

I replaced TIM again, but I'm sure I did a good job because it's not my first time...

I checked the bios to make sure everything is really at stock, and even put the voltage on "power saving" for good measure.

This CPU has always run warm. It was bought used, and presumably the previous owner overclocked it heavily...

It's a 5000 Black Edition.

Could the over-clocking and over-volting by the previous owner have damaged this CPU so that it runs hot permanently now?

That's my one right? I didn't didn't over clock it all to much.

Is there a possibility the motherboard is slightly warped so correct pressure is'nt being applied.

Do you have another heatsink you can try.

[Jstn7477]

I think Brisbane core AM2 processors were the last to use TIM paste between the die and IHS, before manufacurers moved to solder and nobody could de-lid the CPUs anymore. I have a feeling that this is the case, as my old 939 X2 Toledo CPUs would run in the 60-70c range with a relatively great cooler, suggesting the TIM in the IHS is dried out.

This is also why I'm not buying an Intel Core 3xxx CPU to replace my 2600K, as I have a feeling the same will happen to those in a couple years.

[TC-man]

Hi,

Perhaps the AMD stock cooler is not making proper contact with the CPU. Maybe try with another CPU-cooler, preferably with heatpipes, e.g. the Cooler Master TX3.

[Black Panther]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

That's my one right? I didn't didn't over clock it all to much.

Is there a possibility the motherboard is slightly warped so correct pressure is'nt being applied.

Do you have another heatsink you can try.

Umm, yes... I wasn't going to mention you though

The CPU always ran warm. We were thinking it was the case, so I installed another exhaust fan. Afterwards, I also removed the side panel and put mesh instead so practically the case is now like without a side. It made very little difference.
Unfortunately I don't have another cooler to replace it with.

This time I put AS 5 instead of some old generic TIM. I was really hoping that idle temperatures would fall to the low 40's at least. My own rig with the processor overclocked @ 4Ghz idles at 42 degrees. But this one refuses to go below 53!

[de.das.dude]

i think its the IHS BP! its warped out! Google if you can find if that IHS uses TIM between the CPU and itself.
then the only way to revive would be to take away the IHS.

Wondering how the TIM dries out?, dont the IHS make an airtight seal?

[brandonwh64]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

Umm, yes... I wasn't going to mention you though

The CPU always ran warm. We were thinking it was the case, so I installed another exhaust fan. Afterwards, I also removed the side panel and put mesh instead so practically the case is now like without a side. It made very little difference.
Unfortunately I don't have another cooler to replace it with.

This time I put AS 5 instead of some old generic TIM. I was really hoping that idle temperatures would fall to the low 40's at least. My own rig with the processor overclocked @ 4Ghz idles at 42 degrees. But this one refuses to go below 53!

http://img.techpowerup.org/120606/P1...]_03-04-12.jpg

That cooler looks to be a aluminum cooler as well, see if someone local has a denab/thuban heatpipe version

[Jstn7477]

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

i think its the IHS BP! its warped out! Google if you can find if that IHS uses TIM between the CPU and itself.
then the only way to revive would be to take away the IHS.

Wondering how the TIM dries out?, dont the IHS make an airtight seal?

Not fully. If the IHS were sealed, I believe it could possibly pressurize when the CPU gets hot and pop off.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/regorcomp.jpg/

[yogurt_21]

older amd cpus are pretty resilient but all pretty much suffer from a bit of a heat increase, more so if it's been clocked. On a good cooler, you'd hardly notice. On an ancient stock cooler from who knows what? (as blacks didn't come with coolers) yeah that isn't going to work.

I'd toss another cooler on there, the old 1283 xigmatics should be pretty cheap used (10-15$) and would work much better.

[Black Panther]

Originally Posted by yogurt_21

older amd cpus are pretty resilient but all pretty much suffer from a bit of a heat increase, more so if it's been clocked. On a good cooler, you'd hardly notice. On an ancient stock cooler from who knows what? (as blacks didn't come with coolers) yeah that isn't going to work.

I'd toss another cooler on there, the old 1283 xigmatics should be pretty cheap used (10-15$) and would work much better.

Guess I'll take your advice. I had bought that cooler cheap from a shop - they said it was supposed to be slightly better than normal stock coolers.
I was just under the impression that with the cpu not overclocked it'd run at ~35 idle as all 'normal' cpu's do when not oc'd...

[Jstn7477]

Honestly the StarTech.com cooler doesn't look too bad. Remember that the X2 5000+ BE is only a 65w TDP processor on a 65nm process with only 1MB L2 cache total, so I'm going to stick with my explanation about the TIM under the IHS. I don't really know how effective a new cooler will be if the heat is having a problem escaping the IHS in the first place.

[ChristTheGreat]

What is your room temp? If you remove the cooler you will see if there is a good contact between each.

My brother 90nm Opteron 165 2.8ghz idles core at 35 and full load at 53

and what reads your temp? Bios , core temp?

[Black Panther]

Originally Posted by Jstn7477

Honestly the StarTech.com cooler doesn't look too bad. Remember that the X2 5000+ BE is only a 65w TDP processor on a 65nm process with only 1MB L2 cache total, so I'm going to stick with my explanation about the TIM under the IHS. I don't really know how effective a new cooler will be if the heat is having a problem escaping the IHS in the first place.

That'd be a problem. I have no idea how to remove the IHS...
(And what on earth could have caused the TIM between processor and IHS to go kaput? Perhaps once it overheated really bad or something?)

Originally Posted by ChristTheGreat

If you remove the heatsink, do you will see if there isa good contact CPU to heatsink..

By the way, room temp??

Yes when I removed it the first time today the TIM was very evenly spread and showed that it had been filling up small spaces which needed to be filled. Even when I removed the AS 5 the second time, it was the same. I only made a drop the size of a grain of rice and it spread nearly to all the ends of the IHS.

Room temperature is 76F / 25C.
But still, in the same room there's both pc's - the one with the 5000BE at 54 degrees and my E8400 (@ 4Ghz) at 42 degrees.

Originally Posted by ChristTheGreat

and what reads your temp? Bios , core temp?

I am using Hwinfo and Speccy for both pc's. Both programs give the same temps.

[ChristTheGreat]

To compare 2 different computer, it is hard to say my 2500k @ stock with CNPS10x extreme modded, core temp goes under 30C, on a 23C room temp, while Speedstep.

Is the heatsink hot wen you touch it?

[Jstn7477]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

That'd be a problem. I have no idea how to remove the IHS...
(And what on earth could have caused the TIM between processor and IHS to go kaput? Perhaps once it overheated really bad or something?)

Quite simply, it's pretty much the same stuff you use between the IHS and your CPU cooler, and it does go bad after a few years. You've disclosed the importance of changing your thermal paste regularly in your thread recently, so it's pretty much the same deal here, only you can't replace it without permanently mutilating the CPU. Even then, the Athlon's thermal diodes are probably much different from your E8400's, so that could contribute to an even bigger deviation between the CPUs. Also, Wolfdale sensors get stuck at around 40c, so your E8400 could be idling even cooler. My Wolfdale-based Pentium E6600 doesn't go below ~42c either if I recall.

[Black Panther]

I saw a couple of youtube videos on how to remove the IHS. Probably I won't be doing it unless his computer starts turning off again while he's gaming..

I need to know what 'shims' are and if they are necessary to use after IHS removal (English's not my first language).
I have a pc, it's still in working condition but rarely used, with a Pentium IV Willamette 1.6Ghz (one of the very first) and that CPU is without a heatsink. I once removed the cooler, dabbed a very tiny bit of paste in the middle and put the cooler back again, simple as that, and no problems occurred.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

I need to know what 'shims' are and if they are necessary to use after IHS removal (English's not my first language).

A shim is a thin metal plate ,put between an unlidded cpu and the Hsf to allow good contact between the cooler and cpu, its one way of resolving the slight gaping issue caused by removeing the Ihs of the cpu, another is messing with the mounting brackets and or the socket

but either way its to stop their being a slight gap between cpu and HSF

[Jstn7477]

Shims are small sheets of flat metal that are made in a variety of thicknesses to suit whatever mechanical tolerances are needed. Basically, you would use a shim to fill in the area the IHS once occupied between the die and cooler.

And yeah, don't rip apart the CPU unless it's unbearably hot and can't function properly (although at that point just buy a new CPU). My processors with IHSs that range between 6 and 10 years old (P4 Northwoods through s939 Athlons) really run fine, just hotter than newer CPUs. Nothing unbearable, though.

[trickson]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

That's my one right? I didn't didn't over clock it all to much.

Famous last words, That thing was cranked to the MAX And you know it!

BTW. That HSF is stock and CRAP! You need to get a better cooler on that thing fast! You know way better than that come one now!

[Black Panther]

Originally Posted by trickson

Famous last words, That thing was cranked to the MAX And you know it!

BTW. That HSF is stock and CRAP! You need to get a better cooler on that thing fast! You know way better than that come one now!

I would if I was overclocking it. But I didn't think I needed to just to run it at stock...

Trickson, if I remember correctly that cpu was yours and you sold it to Pantherx12 wasn't it?

It used to belong to another TPU member before...

[de.das.dude]

i seriously think this is the TIM. Someone here in my country had something like that. He put a CM V8 and it still didnt suffice.

[trickson]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

I would if I was overclocking it. But I didn't think I needed to just to run it at stock...

Trickson, if I remember correctly that cpu was yours and you sold it to Pantherx12 wasn't it?

It used to belong to another TPU member before...

LOL. No Never had a black edition AMD.
But I can tell you that it is one of 2 things.
One, The HSF is crap ( This I happen to think is this case).
Two, The thermal sensors in the CPU are toast. (This would be a CPU issue).

TIM is not going to make this huge a difference at all.

[Black Panther]

Originally Posted by trickson

LOL. No Never had a black edition AMD.

My apologies.

Originally Posted by trickson

One, The HSF is crap ( This I happen to think is this case).

I guess so too. The HS isn't smooth at all. It looks like a brushed metal finish - with horizontal lines throughout.. I thought the TIM would make up for that...
And there was me thinking it'd be better than some random stock AMD HSF....

Originally Posted by trickson

Two, The thermal sensors in the CPU are toast. (This would be a CPU issue).

I don't think so. Before I opened up the case I tried to play Dirt 2 to check what was happening. The pc shut down just before I reached the end of the race (which was a pity since I was 1st )
It didn't reboot but just shut down as if somebody pulled out the power socket.

Everything got better once I applied new TIM. Orthos temps stopped at 68 degrees (as opposed to 90!) and I did 4 or 5 consecutive Dirt races and the pc didn't shut down.

[yogurt_21]

I have erockers old 5000 BE in my wifes desktop (which she completely stopped using when i gto her a laptop despite telling me otherwise I might add) and on the stock cooler for an FX-62 it never hits more than 40C at stock in a 30C room. But the FX-62 was a 125w cpu and the 5000 BE is a 65w cpu so the cooler is more than enough. IMO it's the cooler not the chip.