Workers Riot at Foxconn Chengdu iPhone/iPad Plant

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

You don't want me to put China exports list, hahaha. I think 10 pages of this forum wont be enough.... LOL

Is that why the US' GDP is 15 trillion USD and China's is 5.93 trillion? You make it sound like material exports determine a countries' economic status.

[Prima.Vera]

No, this is why US debt is ~16 trillion. Greece was bankrupted for A LOT less....

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

Is that why the US' GDP is 15 trillion USD and China's is 5.93 trillion? You make it sound like material exports determine a countries' economic status.

Why do you fight it. I already posted an article earlier from a reputable source saying that manufacturing in China is increasing and almost near USA. I posted the link and everything. Are you saying the article is wrong?

GDP isn't good measurement in this situation. If you use GDP you are actually showing that USA is worse off.

The way GDP measurements are based around the cost of material, supplies and services used to produce final goods or services.

Naturally products in USA will cost more overal due to higher labour costs, higher material costs, thus the end product will cost more in retailers/shops so profit can be made. Therefore because American produced product sell for more in retail outlets the GDP is higher.

So really 15 trillion USD vs 5.93 trillion is just showing that products made in USA cost more to produce and sell for more and that products made in China are made cheap and are sold cheaply. It really has nothing to do with whether manufacturing is growing, stabilising or increasing (unless you compare trending metrics over long durations)

An example of GDP could be:

I can build 1,000 budget computers costing £500 per unit, grossing per year £500,000 (China)

Where whereas you can build 6,000 high end computers costing £1500 per unit, grossing per year 9000,000 (USA)

Even though I manufactured more PCs than you and sold for cheaper, you still grossed more than me (GDP). It doesn't mean you manufacture more it means you gross more due to higher prices and labour.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Dent1

Why do you fight it. I already posted an article earlier from a reputable source saying that manufacturing in China is increasing and almost near USA. I posted the link and everything. Are you saying the article is wrong?

GDP isn't good measurement in this situation. If you use GDP you are actually showing that USA is worse off.

The way GDP measurements are based around the cost of material, supplies and services used to produce final goods or services.

Naturally products in USA will cost more overal due to higher labour costs, higher material costs, thus the end product will cost more in retailers/shops so profit can be made. Therefore because American produced product sell for more in retail outlets the GDP is higher.

So really 15 trillion USD vs 5.93 trillion is just showing that products made in USA cost more to produce and sell for more and that products made in China are made cheap and are sold cheaply. It really has nothing to do with whether manufacturing is growing, stabilising or increasing (unless you compare trending metrics over long durations)

An example of GDP could be:

I can build 1,000 budget computers costing £500 per unit, grossing per year £500,000 (China)

Where whereas you can build 6,000 high end computers costing £1500 per unit, grossing per year 9000,000 (USA)

Even though I manufactured more PCs than you and sold for cheaper, you still grossed more than me (GDP). It doesn't mean you manufacture more it means you gross more due to higher prices and labour.

That assumes that 100% of the US' GDP reflects only exports, which isn't true. There is a lot of products produced in the US that are used internally which reduces how much we need to import. You can't deny that the US is an economic power house weather physical products are created here and exported or not. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the US is perfect, but the only reason things cost less in China is because they treat their citizens like crap. The quality of life in the US for most average Americans is pretty good and the cost to maintain that style of living requires higher wages.

[acerace]

Gosh, stop it. We live in a same small world. We need each other, don't fight anymore, it's not healthy.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by acerace

Gosh, stop it. We live in a same small world. We need each other, don't fight anymore, it's not healthy.

It's surprising how many people don't realize that.

[Prima.Vera]

Originally Posted by acerace

Gosh, stop it. We live in a same small world. We need each other, don't fight anymore, it's not healthy.

Tell that to my brother who almost died in Afganistan fighting other nations (read US) wars...
Question is, for what, why, what is the purpose??

Originally Posted by Aquinus

but the only reason things cost less in China is because they treat their citizens like crap. The quality of life in the US for most average Americans is pretty good and the cost to maintain that style of living requires higher wages.

In China unemployment rate is ZERO(0%), they offer free apartments to all graduates, free schools, some areas have free local transportation, etc. Lower wedge? Yeah....they don't pay rent, mortgage, 1 million taxes, etc...Let's not judge before knowing all the facts

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

In China unemployment rate is ZERO(0%), they offer free apartments to all graduates, free schools, some areas have free local transportation, etc. Lower wedge? Yeah....they don't pay rent, mortgage, 1 million taxes, etc...Let's not judge before knowing all the facts

Just because everything is free, doesn't mean that it is good. I would like to be able to actually own my house, thank you.

If it is so good, why don't you move to China?

[random]

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

In China unemployment rate is ZERO(0%), they offer free apartments to all graduates, free schools, some areas have free local transportation, etc. Lower wedge? Yeah....they don't pay rent, mortgage, 1 million taxes, etc...Let's not judge before knowing all the facts

I heard medical bills are also free, if someone hits you with their car, they're liable for all expenses. Don't be surprised if your daughter gets run over by a poor man's car who will most likely choose to kill her then run, rather than injure her and pay her medical bills the rest of his life.

[Mussels]

from what i see on news sites reporting on chinas living conditions, those 'free' accomodation that students get, is worse than the homeless in other countries. food vendors using sewage as cooking oil, 'fresh' produce soaked in contaminated river water to make it weigh more before sale...

everywhere has its own problems, and chinas are certainly worrying. its no wonder people there have problems with the conditions.

[hardcore_gamer]

If all big countries are in debt, then who has all the money ?

[random]

Originally Posted by hardcore_gamer

If all big countries are in debt, then who has all the money ?

banks

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by random

I heard medical bills are also free, if someone hits you with their car, they're liable for all expenses. Don't be surprised if your daughter gets run over by a poor man's car who will most likely choose to kill her then run, rather than injure her and pay her medical bills the rest of his life.

A Chinese truck driver already ran over a young boy twice to save himself from medical costs.

A young girl was ran over by at least 4 different vehicles but eventually died after a few days.

Originally Posted by Mussels

from what i see on news sites reporting on chinas living conditions, those 'free' accomodation that students get, is worse than the homeless in other countries. food vendors using sewage as cooking oil, 'fresh' produce soaked in contaminated river water to make it weigh more before sale...

everywhere has its own problems, and chinas are certainly worrying. its no wonder people there have problems with the conditions.

Sewage for cooking oil, fermented human hair for soy sauce, exploding watermelons, exploding sewers, sidewalks suddenly collapsing, crashing bullet trains, no safety measures in place to prevent bullet trains from crashing with another, a lot of fake products, walnuts made of cement, exploding coins, red/yellow/orange (literal) rivers, slimy and green beaches, high-rise apartments with shoddy foundations, randomly exploding apartments, exploding monitors, pillows filled with rubbish, punching bag filled with garbage, Chinese pet shops injecting puppies with heroin, exploding toilets, seaweed that is actually plastic, bridge partially made of rubbish, hairbands made from condoms, etc.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by entropy13

A Chinese truck driver already ran over a young boy twice to save himself from medical costs.

A young girl was ran over by at least 4 different vehicles but eventually died after a few days.



Sewage for cooking oil, fermented human hair for soy sauce, exploding watermelons, exploding sewers, sidewalks suddenly collapsing, crashing bullet trains, no safety measures in place to prevent bullet trains from crashing with another, a lot of fake products, walnuts made of cement, exploding coins, red/yellow/orange (literal) rivers, slimy and green beaches, high-rise apartments with shoddy foundations, randomly exploding apartments, exploding monitors, pillows filled with rubbish, punching bag filled with garbage, Chinese pet shops injecting puppies with heroin, exploding toilets, seaweed that is actually plastic, bridge partially made of rubbish, hairbands made from condoms, etc.

I suddenly became a lot happier to be an American citizen.

[Aquinus]

Good Morning America on ABC here in America just showed a sink hole in the middle of a street in China that swallowed a full size SUV.

[Prima.Vera]

Wow!!! So many hypocrites in one place! People that never lived 1 minute in other country thinks they know everything only by watching YouTube and 6o'clock news!! Great! You guys are very "enlightened". In deed!
Personally I'm work traveling a lot into Asia to know how things REALLY are. And that Filipino guy should be the last person saying bad things about China. We both know why ...

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

And that Filipino guy should be the last person saying bad things about China. We both know why ...

They have ships in our territory and I'm supposed to be the last person saying bad things about them?

[HossHuge]

I guess the rioters figured that nothing has changed since the people were killing themselves so they are rioting instead. No sense killing yourselves when nothing is going to happen.

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

Wow!!! So many hypocrites in one place! People that never lived 1 minute in other country thinks they know everything only by watching YouTube and 6o'clock news!! Great! You guys are very "enlightened". In deed!
Personally I'm work traveling a lot into Asia to know how things REALLY are. And that Filipino guy should be the last person saying bad things about China. We both know why ...

I've never really understood why everyone has a hate-on for China. Every country is fucked up somehow.

Remember, they have 1/4 of the world's population to deal with. What other organization has to manage that many people?

Originally Posted by entropy13

They have ships in our territory and I'm supposed to be the last person saying bad things about them?

The Philippines extradited 10 Taiwanese to China last year and not back to Taiwan. So should I be saying bad stuff about The Philippines?

[St.Alia-Of-The-Knife]

Originally Posted by entropy13

Sewage for cooking oil, fermented human hair for soy sauce, exploding watermelons, exploding sewers, sidewalks suddenly collapsing, crashing bullet trains, no safety measures in place to prevent bullet trains from crashing with another, a lot of fake products, walnuts made of cement, exploding coins, red/yellow/orange (literal) rivers, slimy and green beaches, high-rise apartments with shoddy foundations, randomly exploding apartments, exploding monitors, pillows filled with rubbish, punching bag filled with garbage, Chinese pet shops injecting puppies with heroin, exploding toilets, seaweed that is actually plastic, bridge partially made of rubbish, hairbands made from condoms, etc.

As far as i know, at least some of them are rumors

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

Wow!!! So many hypocrites in one place! People that never lived 1 minute in other country thinks they know everything only by watching YouTube and 6o'clock news!! Great! You guys are very "enlightened". In deed!
Personally I'm work traveling a lot into Asia to know how things REALLY are. And that Filipino guy should be the last person saying bad things about China. We both know why ...

Ive been to Asia more the a "few" times and let me tell you there isn't American hiding in shipping containers for a chance to live in China.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by St.Alia-Of-The-Knife

As far as i know, at least some of them are rumors

Even a hand full of these are pretty bad, some might be rumors but what about the rest that aren't. Some of these are really bad.

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

That assumes that 100% of the US' GDP reflects only exports which isn't true. There is a lot of products produced in the US that are used internally which reduces how much we need to import.

You are getting confused. There are three equations for calculating GDP.

You are talking about the government expenditure formula which factors in import and export.

The formula I'm talking about is aimed at production in a given country. All my examples are based on production not government expenditure or citizen income level which has a different formula and has a different set of statistics.

Originally Posted by Aquinus

You can't deny that the US is an economic power house weather physical products are created here and exported or not. Now don't get me wrong.

Of course US is an economic power house.

Originally Posted by Aquinus

the only reason things cost less in China is because they treat their citizens like crap.

That's not totally true. Yes the government can do more, but another reason things are cheaper in China is because western societies like America and Europe have set up companies abroad in China and have manipulated unskilled workers, underage workers into working long and unsociable hours for a low wage. Plus China has access to natural materials like coal, iron ore, magnetite, petroleum, aluminium so their value is very cheap due to it's availability thus making the end product cheaper to produce, whereas in USA those materials are rare thus the end product cost more.

Originally Posted by Aquinus

The quality of life in the US for most average Americans is pretty good and the cost to maintain that style of living requires higher wages.

So if a poor Chinese person lives with 3 uncles, an 2 aunties, and have 8 babies between them in a bedroom flat with no heating, internet or electricity because its all hey can afford, it's OK for them to be exploited because their standard of living doesn't require a high wage?

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Ive been to Asia more the a "few" times and let me tell you there isn't American hiding in shipping containers for a chance to live in China.

I've met plenty of western people whom have decided to live in China and South East Asia full time. They wanted a better quality of life (you can live like a millionaire on a average western salary)

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Dent1

So if a poor Chinese person lives in with 3 uncles, an 2 aunties, and have 8 babies between them in a bedroom flat with no heating, internet or electricity because its all hey can afford, it's OK for them to be exploited because their standard of living doesn't require a high wage?

I never said I condone what is happening to the Chinese people and I truly feel for them. Something has to change but it won't be the rest of the world to bring upon that change. I'm also sure that they didn't choose that standard of living. Just because some very wealthy Americans can afford 10 cars and a private jet doesn't mean all Americans can and quite frankly I don't condone the actions of the super rich either. I believe that all people have a right to a reasonable quality of life and I do mean everyone, Chinese, American, Taiwanese, you name it. We're all human beings and none of us are any better than the next man or women.

[xkm1948]

Originally Posted by Prima.Vera

Tell that to my brother who almost died in Afganistan fighting other nations (read US) wars...
Question is, for what, why, what is the purpose??




In China unemployment rate is ZERO(0%), they offer free apartments to all graduates, free schools, some areas have free local transportation, etc. Lower wedge? Yeah....they don't pay rent, mortgage, 1 million taxes, etc...Let's not judge before knowing all the facts

Completely BS. I have lived in China for more than 5 yrs and what you described was the red China in 1960s under Mao's rule.

[xkm1948]

Originally Posted by Dent1

You are getting confused. There are three equations for calculating GDP.

You are talking about the government expenditure formula which factors in import and export.

The formula I'm talking about is aimed at production in a given country. All my examples are based on production not government expenditure or citizen income level which has a different formula and has a different set of statistics.



Of course US is an economic power house.



That's not totally true. Yes the government can do more, but another reason things are cheaper in China is because western societies like America and Europe have set up companies abroad in China and have manipulated unskilled workers, underage workers into working long and unsociable hours for a low wage. Plus China has access to natural materials like coal, iron ore, magnetite, petroleum, aluminium so their value is very cheap due to it's availability thus making the end product cheaper to produce, whereas in USA those materials are rare thus the end product cost more.




So if a poor Chinese person lives with 3 uncles, an 2 aunties, and have 8 babies between them in a bedroom flat with no heating, internet or electricity because its all hey can afford, it's OK for them to be exploited because their standard of living doesn't require a high wage?




I've met plenty of western people whom have decided to live in China and South East Asia full time. They wanted a better quality of life (you can live like a millionaire on a average western salary)

Experienced it first hand. Mostly because Chinese/Asian people have this strange admiration of US.