Windows 8 Discussion.

[AthlonX2]

Originally Posted by Ravenas

OSx is an extremely accessible OS that any user can pick up.

I would hazzard to say that this isnt true. especially when i had to hack my own Mac Mini to get OS X 10.7 to run on it.

[illli]

imagine the horror of trying to help your parents or grandparents with this abominable os. yeah. think about that one for a while lol

[Ravenas]

Originally Posted by illli

imagine the horror of trying to help your parents or grandparents with this abominable os. yeah. think about that one for a while lol

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by 20mmrain

Oh I am aware.....As of right now..... But your statement is not necessarily true either. MS is as close to a monopoly as you can get. If you want to continue using programs (Most of which are only compatible for MS windows) you are forced to deal with it.
The government did not do a good enough job splitting it up awhile back. This situation is slowly getting better....But it is still not satisfactory for most people.

Examples:
Move to apple you can't upgrade Hardware
Move to LinX Half of your shit works (Most games won't)
Move to Chrome (It's getting there and one day I think Google Chrome "Or variant" will be MS's biggest competitor but they are still very young in this market)

If you want to be a gamer/ Benchmarking enthusiast Windows right now is your only main option. Or even if you are a power user MS windows is you only real option.

But if you are a teen girl or want easy usability or if you want to code everything yourself or some buisness.....then sure..... there are several other options out there.

why are you singling out teen girls? I know a lot of them that use Windows and won't use a Mac.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Because otherwise people will complain that the new OS didn't change enough from the previous version and it's not worth upgrading because it's almost exactly the same?

Oh, and btw, I'm pretty sure I don't remember there being a lot of hate on Windows 7 when it was released.

there was still a lot of hate. you can find it on TPU if you search for XP and 7

[Yo_Wattup]

Originally Posted by Ravenas

Vista is generally the same as Windows 7 with the exception of being extremely bloated at launch. OSx is an extremely accessible OS that any user can pick up. The same can not be said for Windows 8.

I heavily disagree, I was forced to use OSX the other day and installing a program was an absolute nightmare. It took me ages to find the program files in the useless 'finder' (equivalent to windows explorer) and half of them weren't there... I shudder at the thought of using OSX with multiple HDDs....

[naoan]

Originally Posted by Mussels

why am i doomed to hear these same arguments EVERY TIME A NEW OS IS RELEASED?

I don't remember hearing this many complaints on numerous sites and review with 7, hell, even Vista beta was more lukewarmly bashed.

Originally Posted by Yo_Wattup

I heavily disagree, I was forced to use OSX the other day and installing a program was an absolute nightmare. It took me ages to find the program files in the useless 'finder' (equivalent to windows explorer) and half of them weren't there... I shudder at the thought of using OSX with multiple HDDs....

It took me months to find out how to shift+delete files on their explorer (forgot the name), still haven't found out today. Finally opted to ran terminal and rm.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Yo_Wattup

I heavily disagree, I was forced to use OSX the other day and installing a program was an absolute nightmare. It took me ages to find the program files in the useless 'finder' (equivalent to windows explorer) and half of them weren't there... I shudder at the thought of using OSX with multiple HDDs....

Since OS X doesn't have a folder labeled "Applications" as well as an Application packaging setup so application files are all put together. Every Installer I've used on Mac as well has been simple to use. I don't know what version of OS X you were using but you're not describing 10.4 through 10.7 to my knowledge. Last but not least, at least I can move applications in OS X, Windows throws a hissy fit because of its archaic registry. Have you ever tried to unbrick MS Office that was on a disk where the drive letter changed? It's the biggest pain in the world and OS X doesn't have this problem.

Just because you can't figure out how to use it doesn't mean it's a bad OS. Plenty of people have issues figuring out Windows as well.

Originally Posted by AthlonX2

I would hazzard to say that this isnt true. especially when i had to hack my own Mac Mini to get OS X 10.7 to run on it.

Runs fine on every C2D Mac I've dumped my work's image on to, granted they're all laptops but I'm sure 3 of the old 15" MBPs are just as old and work just as well.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by theJesus

I still need to try it out.

I tried it out when it was available June 1, and its crap. Windows 7/Windows Vista, look like next gen OS. Windows 8 looks like a service pack with UI upgrade for Windows 95

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

Last but not least, at least I can move applications in OS X, Windows throws a hissy fit because of its archaic registry.

"Archaic registry?" The system registry is a godsend to programmers. Applications that are properly installed make a key in the registry that, at bare minimum, tell where it is installed. Any application looking to interface with said installed application can check the registry. If the key is not there, there's a good chance it isn't installed. If the key is there, you can often read the location to find it and verify it by checking the executable.

Not to mention, Windows stores a lot of its settings in the registry as well. There are thousands of tweaks that can be made in there if you know what to look for.

The registry is a simple database available to all applications on all versions of Windows. It is one of the features that puts Windows in a league of its own.

If you want to "move" an application on Windows, do it the proper way: uninstall it from the old location and install it in the new.

[v12dock]

I would buy kernel changes and dx11.1

[DannibusX]

I think a lot of people are missing the big picture. Microsoft is kind of genius when it comes to changing the interface in Windows 8 to Metro and essentially forcing everyone to use it.

Desktop computing for the mainstream is going away. Within the next 10 years the majority of computing devices will be tablet or mobile and like touchscreen, or who knows what.

Designing Windows 8 to be a to be primarily a touch/tile based OS means that the shift to mobile devices will require much less "training" when the market actually shifts very far away from the desktop environment. As a matter of fact, the shift should be damn near seamless for the average end user when moving from a desktop to a mobile device.

Tablets are only going to get more powerful and cheaper as time goes on. Microsoft is making sure they can capitalize on whatever direction the market heads. Their entire suite of software will work across all of their platforms eventually and they'll be poised to keep a large share of the market.

Apple is ahead of them in the mobile/tablet game. Google isn't too far behind Apple and Microsoft is at risk of irrelevancy in the mobile market.

[lilhasselhoffer]

I don't get it.

Windows Xp had issues, because it didn't have drivers and was basterdized off of the NT structure. People didn't like XP for various reasons, but it stuck around.

Vista rolled around, and had a bad decision for every good one. Streamlining security brought UAC up constantly. Massive system requirements meant moving the definition of a "low end" computer up. Promises that the OS would work were broken. Obfuscation of features, which people had gotten used to finding in one place, raised consumer ire. All of this was combined with poor driver support for quite some time, and people moaned.

7 was Vista reworked. People moaned that the underlying issues remained, despite numerous tweaks and improvements that made 7 more palateable (read: 7 was Vista with more thought).


My problem is that Metro is a very good interface, if you have a touchscreen. Assuming you've got a regular PC, the UI changes are either ambivalent or down-right foolish . I can see tablets benefiting from this, but a desktop with this seems like a fool's errand. I'm not getting 8 anyways. 9 should be a better thought-out version, that I actually might find reasonably useable.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by DannibusX

Desktop computing for the mainstream is going away. Within the next 10 years the majority of computing devices will be tablet or mobile and like touchscreen, or who knows what.

People have been predicting the death of desktops for a decade now. Desktops are still king and even if laptops do manage to eek past, they will remain extremely competitive for two reasons: initial costs and cost of ownership (read: repairs).

You can buy a $600 desktop or a $600 tablet, in a year, you drop the tablet and it breaks, you spend $600 on a new one. In the same period, you may have had a power supply costing $50 to fix. In another year, your tablet gets stolen, another $600. Meanwhile, you install more RAM in your desktop for another $50. In another year, your tablet got a little too wet by being left outside during a shower, another $600. Major malfunction on your desktop with your motherboard getting fired and the monitor's LCD burning out, $200 to fix both. What's our total now? $2400 over 4 years versus $300? Probably after the second year, the money concious would return to a desktop.


Other than that, I agree. Microsoft is merging the OS for desktop, laptop, ultrabook, netbook, and phone into one package. It may hurt some because it's an expert at nothing but a novice in everything but...only time will tell if the gamble pays off.

[Completely Bonkers]

I'm still on XP/2K3. Sounds like I don't need to upgrade

[Mathragh]

Imho, for power users, Win8 doesnt actually get alot worse, you hardly ever have to use the metro interface, and when you do, you can just use it in the exact same way as you would in windows 7(ie, press windows button, type the program you want to use, and press enter).

To be honest, everyone raging about windows 8 being so crap and all just needs to grow up. because
1: If you dont want to learn a few new tricks to be able to use win8 to its fullest(and probably even improve the productivity compared to win7), you're actually not a poweruser, but a "I DONT WANNA CHAAANGE" user. This obviously isnt really professional or beneficial in any way.

2: The interface just works better for the 80% of the people they are going to sell it to (who dont how to use any windows anyway).

and 3: Under the hood, win 8 actually has alot of things that just make it superior to compared to win 7 (think of improved taskmanager, improved networking, improved disk management, improved kernel, and, although debatable improved desktop UI(with the ribbon interface in the explorer)).

Just my 2 cents

[BazookaJoe]

It's the "shit - HOT" Flip flop...

Win95(SHIT) - Win98(HOT) - WinME(SHIT) - WinXP(HOT) - Vista(SHIT) - Win7(HOT) - Win8(SHIT) - Win9(HOT)

So don't worry - like so many UTTER F#@K up OS's before it, Microsoft will soon smell the fail and release a proper OS again...

[iKhan]

Originally Posted by Ravenas

Vista was a good OS imo.

[naoan]

Originally Posted by Mathragh

Imho, for power users, Win8 doesnt actually get alot worse, you hardly ever have to use the metro interface, and when you do, you can just use it in the exact same way as you would in windows 7(ie, press windows button, type the program you want to use, and press enter).

To be honest, everyone raging about windows 8 being so crap and all just needs to grow up. because
1: If you dont want to learn a few new tricks to be able to use win8 to its fullest(and probably even improve the productivity compared to win7), you're actually not a poweruser, but a "I DONT WANNA CHAAANGE" user. This obviously isnt really professional or beneficial in any way.

2: The interface just works better for the 80% of the people they are going to sell it to (who dont how to use any windows anyway).

and 3: Under the hood, win 8 actually has alot of things that just make it superior to compared to win 7 (think of improved taskmanager, improved networking, improved disk management, improved kernel, and, although debatable improved desktop UI(with the ribbon interface in the explorer)).

Just my 2 cents

1: Change for the sake of change eh?
2: Who told you that? Your crystal ball?
3: Process explorer, download/uploading at fullspeed with 7 and that's what matter most to most people anyway, never had disk failure because of 7 and citation needed, barely have any BSOD on 7 (if there's any it's cause of OC or bad HW), absolutely debatable.

[thunderising]

On windows 7 and happy to be there

[repman244]

Originally Posted by BazookaJoe

It's the "shit - HOT" Flip flop...

Win95(SHIT) - Win98(HOT) - WinME(SHIT) - WinXP(HOT) - Vista(SHIT) - Win7(HOT) - Win8(SHIT) - Win9(HOT)

So don't worry - like so many UTTER F#@K up OS's before it, Microsoft will soon smell the fail and release a proper OS again...

You forgot Windows 2000 which was good

[arnoo1]

I used the RT version for a week, and i unistalled it asap, windows 7 ftw

[NdMk2o1o]

Originally Posted by 20mmrain

Oh I am aware.....As of right now..... But your statement is not necessarily true either. MS is as close to a monopoly as you can get. If you want to continue using programs (Most of which are only compatible for MS windows) you are forced to deal with it.
The government did not do a good enough job splitting it up awhile back. This situation is slowly getting better....But it is still not satisfactory for most people.

Examples:
Move to apple you can't upgrade Hardware
Move to LinX Half of your shit works (Most games won't)
Move to Chrome (It's getting there and one day I think Google Chrome "Or variant" will be MS's biggest competitor but they are still very young in this market)

If you want to be a gamer/ Benchmarking enthusiast Windows right now is your only main option. Or even if you are a power user MS windows is you only real option.

But if you are a teen girl or want easy usability or if you want to code everything yourself or some buisness.....then sure..... there are several other options out there.

So had they not been such a monopoly we could still be using those good old 16bit apps, damn you MS

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by lilhasselhoffer

Windows Xp had issues, because it didn't have drivers and was basterdized off of the NT structure. People didn't like XP for various reasons, but it stuck around.

Windows NT all the way to Windows 8 uses the NT kernel, not just Windows XP.

Originally Posted by Completely Bonkers

I'm still on XP/2K3. Sounds like I don't need to upgrade

Except that MS doesn't release patches for XP anymore and IIRC if they haven't already stopped security updates are slated to end very soon for XP/2k3.

Originally Posted by Mathragh

: The interface just works better for the 80% of the people they are going to sell it to (who dont how to use any windows anyway).

You mean how Metro doesn't let you exit an application unless you kill it in the task manager? It just "suspends" it and keeps it in memory until there is no memory left and only then will it move the "suspended" process to the page file. I don't like Windows 8 because Metro is a serious usibility issue for desktop and laptop users. That is only because everyone uses Tablets, right?

Originally Posted by naoan

1: Change for the sake of change eh?
2: Who told you that? Your crystal ball?
3: Process explorer, download/uploading at fullspeed with 7 and that's what matter most to most people anyway, never had disk failure because of 7 and citation needed, barely have any BSOD on 7 (if there's any it's cause of OC or bad HW), absolutely debatable.

Have you never seen this?

Let me take a quote from it:

The EC claimed on Thursday that Microsoft wants to charge too much for interoperability protocol licences that enable third-party software vendors to develop software compatible with Windows servers. In a damning statemement, the EC claimed that the protocols "lack significant innovation", even though Microsoft has been awarded patents on much of the technology in question.

"Microsoft has agreed that the main basis for pricing should be whether its protocols are innovative," said EU competition commissioner Neelie Kroes. "The Commission's current view is that there is no significant innovation in these protocols. I am therefore again obliged to take formal measures to ensure that Microsoft complies with its obligations."

This dispute dates back to the landmark EC antitrust ruling against Microsoft in 2004. Under this, Microsoft was ordered to hand over server interoperability specifications for work group server operating systems so that rival software makers could ensure full compatibility with Windows.

Microsoft submitted the specifications in a 1,500 page document in July 2006. After six months of examination the EC has concluded that they lack innovation, and that as such Microsoft's proposed pricing is excessive.

The real point is that ligitigation has also been passed to ensure that Windows sports significant change and innovation between versions, so it's no unfathomable that MS is just thinking of something new because they're required by law.

[repman244]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

The real point is that ligitigation has also been passed to ensure that Windows sports significant change and innovation between versions, so it's no unfathomable that MS is just thinking of something new because they're required by law.

It's a bit hard to define what is a significant change or innovation here. If there is a change in Windows (For example an improved scheduler or some other similar stuff) it may be significant for someone and worthless for others.
For me it's significant if the OS is more stable than the previous version, I don't need some crappy and shinny apps just so they can say they are innovating.
EC should GTFO and concentrate on the problems with EU companies which are creating a monopoly (I could go into details here about which company and the way they do it but that would be seriously off topic).

That's just my point of view on this