Gaming Mice with vertical thumb buttons

[inferKNOX]

Hey there guys
So, it's been quite a while since I bought my Microsoft SideWinder X8 mouse and have been wondering if there is any comparable high quality gaming mice that also have vertical thumb buttons. I can't figure out why on earth this hasn't caught on, it's so much better. There are many great mice out there, but you either gotta bend your thumb right back to use the 'back' button for stretch it to reach the 'forward button, which is much, much less comfortable.
There gotta be more mouse manufacturers out there that jumped on the simple but great idea of having those vertically oriented, right?

[Fourstaff]

If you are willing to use Razer Naga and Logitech G600 then they techincally have "vertical buttons". I like the vertical arrangement on my X5, so I would like to see more of this too

[inferKNOX]

Hmph, so putting the MMO mice aside, I guess that basically means it's no surprise I'm turning up nothing then.
It's quite a mystery why this orientation hasn't taken over the conventional one, never mind having been completely omitted as it seems to have. I wouldn't say this is the best mouse, but those buttons are definitely excellent. It'd be nice to have some alternatives to choose from.

[Mussels]

logitech G700, has four thumb buttons in a square-ish pattern.

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by Mussels

logitech G900, has four thumb buttons in a square-ish pattern.

I think you mean G700?

[inferKNOX]

I'm talking about something along the lines of (ignore the long macro button):

the logitech G700 isn't quite there:

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by inferKNOX

I can't figure out why on earth this hasn't caught on, it's so much better.

Simple, with a button orientation like that there is no place to rest your thumb that isn't on a button. Which means buttons often get pressed when the user didn't want to press a button. This design is certainly not better for most people, and it isn't hard to press the buttons on something like the G700, you don't have to stretch or bend your thumb back to do it.

[TheMailMan78]

Check the RAT 7.

[inferKNOX]

@newtekie1:
Not true at all. I rest my thumbs between the buttons and they actually form an ergonomic shape around my thumb. I have never ever pressed one of the buttons by mistake because they're firm (yet not stiff) and they're connected (as in the 2 buttons are a single piece with a hinge between the 2 buttons), which prevents pressing both at the same time & it not possible to press them when having your thumb between them.

@TheMailMan78: My one friend has a RAT7 & another a RAT9 (basically wireless RAT7), both of which I find to have horrific horizontal thumb button positioning that requires an uncomfortably sharp bend of the thumb to press, so that's way out, but I suppose your comment is more of sarcasm against n00bs.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by inferKNOX

@newtekie1:
Not true at all. I rest my thumbs between the buttons and they actually form an ergonomic shape around my thumb. I have never ever pressed one of the buttons by mistake because they're firm (yet not stiff) and they're connected (as in the 2 buttons are a single piece with a hinge between the 2 buttons), which prevents pressing both at the same time & it not possible to press them when having your thumb between them.

@TheMailMan78: My one friend has a RAT7 & another a RAT9 (basically wireless RAT7), both of which I find to have horrific horizontal thumb button positioning that requires an uncomfortably sharp bend of the thumb to press, so that's way out, but I suppose your comment is more of sarcasm against n00bs.

Honestly no. If you set it up with a higher palm rest and swing it back it fits nice. If you leave it "default" then your statement is 100% true. Its all in the configuration of your mouse.

The way mine is setup I dont even have to move my thumb and I can touch all 3 side buttons.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

The way mine is setup I dont even have to move my thumb and I can touch all 3 side buttons.

Yes, but your mitts are the size of Christmas hams. He asked for vertical, anyway, and those buttons are horizontal.

[manofthem]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Honestly no. If you set it up with a higher palm rest and swing it back it fits nice. If you leave it "default" then your statement is 100% true. Its all in the configuration of your mouse.

The way mine is setup I dont even have to move my thumb and I can touch all 3 side buttons.

Default wasnt too comfortable. Even with adjusting, I still haven't gotten it quite right. Right now, the back button is right around my thumb knuckle.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Yes, but your mitts are the size of Christmas hams. He asked for vertical, anyway, and those buttons are horizontal.

Well then I'm confused on what hes asking.

[manofthem]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Well then I'm confused on what hes asking.

The thumb buttons on RAT7 are horizontal and OP is talking about mice with vertical buttons, or stacked on top of each other. My old mouse was like that and I prefer it, too bad it died.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by manofthem

The thumb buttons on RAT7 are horizontal and OP is talking about mice with vertical buttons, or stacked on top of each other. My old mouse was like that and I prefer it, too bad it died.

Ah ok. Now I get it! Thanks!

[Frag Maniac]

The only real difference of what MS does is they put your thumb in a position of constantly being bent back a bit when it's resting in the holding position, then you extend it forward to click either of the side thumb buttons. Most use a contoured resting spot just below horizontally placed buttons.

I don't see how moving your thumb forward a bit is any better than raising it up a bit. At least with the commonly used design your thumb stays extended roughly the same length, creating potentially less time required to feel for the buttons. I doubt MS peripherals will ever be considered more game worthy than that of Razer, Logitech, etc.

[inferKNOX]

@Frag Maniac: That is completely untrue, because I don't constantly bend my thumb at all. I simply have it always resting the over the buttons, with them right in the centre of the thumb. I never have to pull it back or extend it forward and, in fact, I'm looking to see if there are other mice for exactly this reason.
Moving my thumb up & down is a very natural thumb motion & doesn't cause RSI damage in the tendons above the first thumb joint. I always had a sore thumb before when using the horizontal thumb buttons and have never suffered any discomfort with the vertical ones.
In games requiring rapid button presses, people I play with/against were shocked how much faster one can execute the action with the buttons orientated vertically, so I think your speculation there is also quite a bit off.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by inferKNOX

@Frag Maniac: That is completely untrue, because I don't constantly bend my thumb at all. I simply have it always resting the over the buttons, with them right in the centre of the thumb. I never have to pull it back or extend it forward and, in fact, I'm looking to see if there are other mice for exactly this reason.
Moving my thumb up & down is a very natural thumb motion & doesn't cause RSI damage in the tendons above the first thumb joint. I always had a sore thumb before when using the horizontal thumb buttons and have never suffered any discomfort with the vertical ones.
In games requiring rapid button presses, people I play with/against were shocked how much faster one can execute the action with the buttons orientated vertically, so I think your speculation there is also quite a bit off.

It's only untrue for you, I was speaking more of their probable intended use than yours, which seems atypical to me. Like the poster above implied, it's not common that people would want to grip a mouse with their thumbs ON the buttons, causing possible inadvertent clicks, and if it requires more pressure to click than mouse gripping would activate, then clearly just clicking them repeatedly could cause discomfort.

I also find it odd you suggest gamers would prefer it MS' way when the vast majority of gaming mice sold are by other brands. Don't you think if they really preferred vertical thumb buttons more players would be buying the SideWinder?

Again, this is one person's opinion with the claims of a few friends agreeing against a market filled mostly with players whom buy the other mice. Now you can call that "speculation" all you want, but your argument sounds rather baseless in doing so.

I call these "crusade" threads. Someone falls in love with something that's atypical, then tries desperately to convince everyone the others are doing it wrong. The reason it comes off as a "crusade" is when others offer reasonable, rational rebuttals, the thread author goes off on a self righteous defense stance, often tossing around passive aggressive insults, as if we have to bow to his claimed wisdom or deal with his attitude.

Get used to the fact that many aren't going to agree with you on this.

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Don't you think if they really preferred vertical thumb buttons more players would be buying the SideWinder?

He is not the only one, I like my up and down Sidewinder too. Its just too bad that the Sidewinder is not a popular mouse (marketing maybe?), if you see Logitech or Razer or some other popular equipment makers pushing one out I think the adoption rate will be higher.

[Hilux SSRG]

How about getting the Sidewinder X5?

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-ARB-...inder+X5+Mouse

I know its not the same like a X8 [I dread the day my X8 will die on me ]

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

He is not the only one, I like my up and down Sidewinder too. Its just too bad that the Sidewinder is not a popular mouse (marketing maybe?), if you see Logitech or Razer or some other popular equipment makers pushing one out I think the adoption rate will be higher.

I didn't say he was the only one. I'm sure that mouse has it's own form of a cult following, but minimal at best compared to other designs. I also don't think it's a mere matter of brand loyalty. Gamers, esp ones that pay a fair bit for a high DPI mouse, are pretty picky about the features on their equipment too.

[inferKNOX]

@Frag Maniac: it is neither easy to mistakenly click, nor difficult to purposely click. It is difficult to explain without you feeling it for yourself, really.
As Fourstaff said, it's probably poor marketing at play more than other factors. Even I was skeptical about the MS brand 'til I felt a friend's X5 myself. One can hardly argue that something that relatively doesn't exist on the market, has a poor adoption rate.
I'm speaking from my personal opinion, not friends, and unless I'm mistaken, that's the point of these things called forums. I called out your "speculation" regarding the feel and behavior of the buttons, since I have felt both horizontal & vertical, and your comment was written as that of a person estimating the experience without having tried it; not that your arguing which is more common is speculation. Nothing passive aggressive or otherwise about that.
As for your claim that I'm on a crusade, notice that I started this thread asking if people know of any other such mice, not to declare they're the best. When none were found, I responded that I don't understand why that is so, because of it seemingly being a great alternative. From the looks of it, the only one that seems to want to be in opposition here is you, then proclaiming others to have attitude.
I don't know why you gotta come into the thread to try dominate the discussion by diverting it at a tangent like that. Please, if you're not interested in discussing what I'm asking about, move on, rather than tryna make a psych eval of me.

@Hilux SSRG: You and me both fear that day. I was more asking if other manufacturers are making such mice. The X8 is the pinnacle among the MS mice, but I think other manufacturers could come up with even better. Just wonder why they haven't...

At the risk of being a "crusader", I'm thinking of emailing and hearing from a few manufacturers on whether they've considered such orientation. Never know, maybe they haven't and would.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by INSTG8R

I think you mean G700?

Originally Posted by inferKNOX

I'm talking about something along the lines of (ignore the long macro button):
http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01...pg?ref=prid-20
the logitech G700 isn't quite there:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/...804d91ab_o.jpg

yeah i meant 700, that was a typo.


and maybe not there.... its better


TWO pairs of vertical buttons! (they're angled so you can never mistake them, or press the wrong ones)

[inferKNOX]

LOL, fair enough. Would love to see a G750, let's call it, with those buttons turned 90 degrees clockwise about the front top button though.

[Frederik S]

The reason why gaming mice look like they do is because, believe it or not, the market is extremely conservative. Microsoft does their thing and it feels quite alright if it fits your hands and stile of gaming. People with violent jerky motions might not like the fact that you have your thumbs over the side buttons, because the grip is slightly worse than if you had your thumb on a piece of rubber or coated plastic.

The other big factor in mice design is marketing, why do you think we have 8200 DPI mice now when most people really need under 1000 DPI for reaching absolute controle at their sensitivity level. Most of the niche market gaming mice (Naga, WoW mouse and so on) are made solely to promote the brand, the profit from those must be marginal at best.