The Heatsink with NO FAN...The Sandia Cooler

[TheMailMan78]

The only way dust will not collect on these fins is if there is negative air pressure. The shape of these fins is wrong for that. They would need to be more a traditional "tear drop" air foil design and even then there would be some dust gathering.

What they are doing here seems cool but if they are truly using "dead air" then this will suck as a cooler as the heat will not dissipate until the molecules gain enough movement to expand out past the positive pressure. Basically this thing will get SUPER HOT before passive air cools it......slightly in the dead space within the cooler.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by phanbuey

I don't know... I'm skeptical, i gotta see it to believe it. But having seen 2K rpm fans collect plenty of dust on the blades, my initial gut reaction is to consider this BS.

Also, the fact that they will have a shroud or a grate of any kind to safeguard the user almost guarantees dust.

If they said it was "dust-resistant" or "optimized to collect much less dust" then great! But "dust-less"? No way. Someone in marketing got a bit too excited.

Perhaps. But all I can think of is those VGAs that spin the fans in reverse to blow dust out...MSI, i think?

Lie yeah, much of this is, for me "Cool, but..uh...I can't buy, can't see working sample" so I'm not very sure of it either. I just am willing to listen, and then judge a final product, than to denounce something unproven. I'm more than willnig to give them a chance to prove themselves and this technology.

[phanbuey]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Perhaps. But all I can think of is those VGAs that spin the fans in reverse to blow dust out...MSI, i think?

Lie yeah, much of this is, for me "Cool, but..uh...I can't buy, can't see working sample" so I'm not very sure of it either. I just am willing to listen, and then judge a final product, than to denounce something unproven. I'm more than willnig to give them a chance to prove themselves and this technology.

Just because I think that their dustless claim is BS doesn't mean im not willing to give them a chance to prove the tech. - I'm assuming everyone here knows that my prior posts are my opinion, and should be taken with a few cartons of salt.

It's fun to speculate - you have faith that their modeling software and their theory is correct, and dust will not stick to the blades of the cooler - which is valid. I on the other hand, predict that because it spins and has airflow around it, in reality it is destined for dust, and their claims are exaggerated.

It's food for thought, and gives us stuff to talk about while they're bringing it to market.

[Aquinus]

There honestly, there is no substitute for keeping your rig clean. Unless you live in a sterile environment, which most people don't.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

"speed of air will force dust ou"

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

so thats what happens when the high speed air goes through heatsink fins.

theoretically its ok. but practically we have to deal with not only dust but lint too. and animal fur etc.

Yes only the fins on this are not stationary so there other forces in action.

[pabloottawa]

static electricity is what makes most fans and heat sinks collect dust. Anyways, this horse is dead guys... Agree to disagree

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by theeldest

Regarding the "dustless" claim:

The explanation for this is in the video but seems lots of peeps here missed it. It's due to the centripetal force. <insert whole spinning bucket on a string analogy>

What this means is that any dust particle experiences a force about 100,000x to 150,000x the force of gravity outward from the center. This is why most fans don't collect dust but the heat sinks do.

I think it's pretty realistic for this to be considered dustless, especially when compared to conventional non-passive coolers.

i came up with the conter: hair. once hair or debris sticks, the dust will stick to that. if they can prevent that problem, this will be great.


edit: and static electricity has nothing to do with fans gathering dust. no idea where you got that idea.

[1Kurgan1]

I'm sure it's already been said, but I don't plan on sifting through 3 pages

But I wouldn't call this a Heatsink with no Fan. I would call this a Heatsink as a Fan. Unless I'm looking at this wrong. I'm just curious how this actually dissipates that heat as it can only be connected by the drive motor in the center basically. How does the heat get transferred up to the spinning heatsink. Though like I said I could be looking at this completely wrong.

Either way I'm a bit skeptical of the idea itself. With the fins/blades so close together and with that kind of RPM, I don't see how new air can be introduced. I understand they want to expel the stagnant air and that rpm helps that. But with such narrow gaps in there I almost see this thing creating a barrier around itself that pushes fresh air around the outside, rather than into and out of the cooler.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

I'm sure it's already been said, but I don't plan on sifting through 3 pages

But I wouldn't call this a Heatsink with no Fan. I would call this a Heatsink as a Fan. Unless I'm looking at this wrong. I'm just curious how this actually dissipates that heat as it can only be connected by the drive motor in the center basically. How does the heat get transferred up to the spinning heatsink. Though like I said I could be looking at this completely wrong.

Either way I'm a bit skeptical of the idea itself. With the fins/blades so close together and with that kind of RPM, I don't see how new air can be introduced. I understand they want to expel the stagnant air and that rpm helps that. But with such narrow gaps in there I almost see this thing creating a barrier around itself that pushes fresh air around the outside, rather than into and out of the cooler.

The heat is transferred through the air bearing it's self, the air moves in such a way that it essentially works as both a constant flow of fluid ( working like a block and water running through it) and a nigh on frictionless bearing.

Regarding air flow, once it starts spinning the air in this thing is forced out, that creates negative air pressure allowing it to draw in fresh air again.

It basically works like a centrifugal pump.

Like others have said this is all technology we already knew works well, they've just put it all into one package.

[de.das.dude]

Originally Posted by Mussels

i came up with the conter: hair. once hair or debris sticks, the dust will stick to that. if they can prevent that problem, this will be great.


edit: and static electricity has nothing to do with fans gathering dust. no idea where you got that idea.

it does. surfaces with charge attract paper pieces and also dust in the same way,

but since the whole thing will be made of metal static electricity doesnt even exist.


@themailman impellers dont have a teardrop or airfoil design. airfoils create lift and a pressure difference. impellers scoop up and fling the air.
this is very similar to a centrifugal pump.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

it does. surfaces with charge attract paper pieces and also dust in the same way,

but since the whole thing will be made of metal static electricity doesnt even exist.


@themailman impellers dont have a teardrop or airfoil design. airfoils create lift and a pressure difference. impellers scoop up and fling the air.
this is very similar to a centrifugal pump.

Yeah me and Dave talked about this in TS yesterday. I was confusing this with a cyclone design where the air is pulled from the bottom. This is more like a vacuum concept.

Also what I said is these would have to be more of an airfoil design IMO to not gather dust. However how they are doing this with negative pressure and blade speed in theory would in fact stay dust free or at the bare minimum dust resistant. The concept is very cool. I was just confused about air flow. I still think the escaping air will pull some of the air "pillow" out from the bottom of the cooler but Dave disagreed with that. I would love to see a thermal image of this thing at work.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Yeah me and Dave talked about this in TS yesterday. I was confusing this with a cyclone design where the air is pulled from the bottom. This is more like a vacuum concept.

Also what I said is these would have to be more of an airfoil design IMO to not gather dust. However how they are doing this with negative pressure and blade speed in theory would in fact stay dust free or at the bare minimum dust resistant. The concept is very cool. I was just confused about air flow. I still think the escaping air will pull some of the air "pillow" out from the bottom of the cooler but Dave disagreed with that. I would love to see a thermal image of this thing at work.

There's a PDF floating about somewhere in the thread that has all the technical information you'd need as well as some thermal images to look at.

As well a design for a condenser for an AC ( instead of weaving pipes through a radiator they just made a spiral out of the pipes and stuck two of these things either side of the coil )

[de.das.dude]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Yeah me and Dave talked about this in TS yesterday. I was confusing this with a cyclone design where the air is pulled from the bottom. This is more like a vacuum concept.

Also what I said is these would have to be more of an airfoil design IMO to not gather dust. However how they are doing this with negative pressure and blade speed in theory would in fact stay dust free or at the bare minimum dust resistant. The concept is very cool. I was just confused about air flow. I still think the escaping air will pull some of the air "pillow" out from the bottom of the cooler but Dave disagreed with that. I would love to see a thermal image of this thing at work.

there is one in the pdf.
also... who Dave?

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

there is one in the pdf.
also... who Dave?

<------------------

[de.das.dude]

lol yeah. i had forgoten. tired and sleepy.

[StanMen]

WOW Fantastic !! dammm i want that cooling sis ! i'm prity sure that this going be the future of CPU cooling ! amazing thanks for sharing this info with us bro ! Cadaveca! thanks !

[de.das.dude]

sorry to destroy your hopes and dreams... but this is not the future of cooling.

[FordGT90Concept]

Do. Want. As long as it has a long life span and doesn't become a projectile should it fail.

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

sorry to destroy your hopes and dreams... but this is not the future of cooling.

Then what is? It's about time someone uses CAD to reinvent the fan. XD

[de.das.dude]

this is just a cooler with use only in places were space is limited. think servers and HTPCs

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

this is just a cooler with use only in places were space is limited. think servers and HTPCs

Dude, this thing can replace the condenser in a Air Conditioning unit.




That's a condenser! ( albeit a fairly big one)

[qubit]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

Dude, this thing can replace the condenser in a Air Conditioning unit.

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produc...9171356326.jpg


That's a condenser! ( albeit a fairly big one)

That's a car radiator! You rascal!

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by qubit

That's a car radiator! You rascal!

Not according to it's URL!

URLS don't lie man

[micropage7]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

Dude, this thing can replace the condenser in a Air Conditioning unit.

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produc...9171356326.jpg


That's a condenser! ( albeit a fairly big one)

yeah, thats good
i ever imagine how if i pair water cooling with 3 ply radiator, it must be good
although its kinda little bit ghetto too

[lilhasselhoffer]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

Dude, this thing can replace the condenser in a Air Conditioning unit.

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produc...9171356326.jpg


That's a condenser! ( albeit a fairly big one)

?

I understand, what I hope to be, the sarcasm. The issues are:
1) Water cooling in a car is done by simple heat transfer. There is no condenser, as no phase change occurs.

2) The energy required to spin this thing will prohibit it from being used in larger applications. Maintaining that kind of velocity with a higher moment of inertia would require substantial motor power, which would make the cooling system less efficient.

3) Radiators provide a surface so that heat can be ejected into the surrounding environment, rather than circulate within the fluid loop. Condensers shift the phase of a material (usually gas to liquid in cooling), so that the cooling loop can use the subsequent phase change back to remove energy from the system.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by lilhasselhoffer

?

I understand, what I hope to be, the sarcasm. The issues are:
1) Water cooling in a car is done by simple heat transfer. There is no condenser, as no phase change occurs.

2) The energy required to spin this thing will prohibit it from being used in larger applications. Maintaining that kind of velocity with a higher moment of inertia would require substantial motor power, which would make the cooling system less efficient.

3) Radiators provide a surface so that heat can be ejected into the surrounding environment, rather than circulate within the fluid loop. Condensers shift the phase of a material (usually gas to liquid in cooling), so that the cooling loop can use the subsequent phase change back to remove energy from the system.

Waaaaahhhh?

1. Why are you talking about radiators on a post about condensers.
2.This thing doesn't require all that much power, after all once it get's going it supports it's own weight so will be spinning like a regular fan surely. ( and thus use the same amount of energy as a fan spinning at the same speed, did you see how long this thing can coast for? so long as once upscaled they still support their own weight they would likely use the same amount of energy. Considering some air conditioning fans use silly amounts of amps already this shouldn't really be a problem,)
3. Yes I know this, I'm so confused man lol.


I'm not sure what any of that has to do with what I said.

Sandia have a condenser type design within their PDF ( it's basically two Sandia coolers and copper piping)