Samsung Samples Industry's First 16 GB DDR4 Server Modules

[blibba]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

maybe you're right or maybe not.
for enthusiasts/high end pc which is built based on their own need, i think they wont use just with a single ddr3 ram, because of its relatively cheap in price and they can boost them with an overclocking unless they dont know how to overclock then buying an expensive one with factory overclocked, but it's possible if they bought a branded/built in pc like dell optiplex which is only use a single 2 gbs ddr3 or they built for bussiness use like internet cafe, gaming center

I don't think you understood the point of my post. I don't really understand the point of yours - yes hardly anyone who knows what they're doing uses single channel, but a) what has this got to do with overclocking, and b) what has this got to do with my post? Also, I hate to be the anal one, but you really ought to clean up posts like that before you hit "post". The grammar and punctuation is bad to the point that it's very difficult to understand for those of us that didn't write it.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Isenstaedt

As far as I know, the ATi Radeon HD 3870 was the only graphics card to use (G)DDR4.

I have a Radeon HD 2600 XT with GDDR4 laying around.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by blibba

I don't think you understood the point of my post. I don't really understand the point of yours - yes hardly anyone who knows what they're doing uses single channel, but a) what has this got to do with overclocking, and b) what has this got to do with my post? Also, I hate to be the anal one, but you really ought to clean up posts like that before you hit "post". The grammar and punctuation is bad to the point that it's very difficult to understand for those of us that didn't write it.

sorry, english is not my primary language. but my point is with abundant and cheap ddr3 memory in retail market, is there anyone here still using single mode rather than dual mode? what's the point using single channel? what will you do with ddr4 on single channel? i think dual channel mode is enough to do multitasking computation, except you're working with super heavy computation such as 3d objects rendering etc. that's why ddr4 is used for enterprise server systems

[largon]

DDR4 will surely first land on HPC systems, but I think the type of computers that benefit the most from DDR4 versus DDR3 are future low/mid-end gaming systems with bandwidth-hungry integrated graphics.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

sorry, english is not my primary language. but my point is with abundant and cheap ddr3 memory in retail market, is there anyone here still using single mode rather than dual mode? what's the point using single channel? what will you do with ddr4 on single channel? i think dual channel mode is enough to do multitasking computation, except you're working with super heavy computation such as 3d objects rendering etc. that's why ddr4 is used for enterprise server systems

Yeah, you've missed my point entirely. I'm not saying that anyone does or should use single-channel memory. I'm saying that the fact that there is little or no performance penalty for doing so demonstrates that we won't benefit from the increase in bandwidth that will come with DDR4. Except, as you said and as I said, in servers and the like.

Also, you seem to imply that single-channel means a single stick of RAM. This is not the case. If you use a Celeron G530 with two identical sticks of RAM, for example, it'll be single channel.

[Aquinus]

Well, you can stop thinking about channels because DDR4 doesn't work that way. DDR4 uses point-to-point links a lot like how PCI-E works. So each DIMM has its own set of memory links so each chip by itself is capable of independent memory operations. That is what I gathered from reading the spec, so memory controllers will have to change a good amount to accommodate it.

Originally Posted by blibba

Also, you seem to imply that single-channel means a single stick of RAM. This is not the case. If you use a Celeron G530 with two identical sticks of RAM, for example, it'll be single channel.

The G530 has two memory channels, so your example is incorrect. Not to say that isn't how it works, but even modern systems with two channels will run dual-channel even if the memory sizes are different so you'll find it really hard to run single channel if the motherboard gives you the option. I bet you it won't though because channels typically aren't switched, they're hard wired.
http://ark.intel.com/products/53414/...Cache-2_40-GHz)

Originally Posted by Intel

Memory Specifications
Max Memory Size (dependent on memory type) 32 GB
Memory Types DDR3-1066
# of Memory Channels 2
Max Memory Bandwidth 17 GB/s

[blibba]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

Well, you can stop thinking about channels because DDR4 doesn't work that way. DDR4 uses point-to-point links a lot like how PCI-E works. So each DIMM has its own set of memory links so each chip by itself is capable of independent memory operations. That is what I gathered from reading the spec, so memory controllers will have to change a good amount to accommodate it.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Aquinus

The G530 has two memory channels, so your example is incorrect. Not to say that isn't how it works, but even modern systems with two channels will run dual-channel even if the memory sizes are different so you'll find it really hard to run single channel if the motherboard gives you the option. I bet you it won't though because channels typically aren't switched, they're hard wired.
http://ark.intel.com/products/53414/...Cache-2_40-GHz)

My mistake. I must have been thinking of Atoms, not Celerons.

All I'm trying to say here is that DDR4 will not yield performance improvements for home users or gamers with discrete graphics cards.

[largon]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

Well, you can stop thinking about channels because DDR4 doesn't work that way.

Channels themselves are same as with previous generations. The difference is, each DIMM has it's own dedicated tracing between slot and memory controller. Current DDR motherboards usually have 2 slots per channel with the secondary slot "piggybacked" by extending the traces from primary slot's pins to the 2nd. With DDR4 you will not see this.

And dedicated tracing means, if you see 1/2/4/n DIMM slots on a DDR4 motherboard that automatically means the board is single/dual/quad/n channel. That is, 64bit/128bit/256bit/n64bit...

DDR4 uses point-to-point links a lot like how PCI-E works.

P2P with DDR4 only means a channel is never shared.

So each DIMM has its own set of memory links

Correct.

so each chip by itself is capable of independent memory operations.

Every DDR-SDRAM chip so far can do that.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by largon

Every DDR-SDRAM chip so far can do that.

Not at the same time. As you said, channels are interleaved.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by blibba

The only relevance of DDR4 to the consumer market is the potential development of GDDR6.

Current high-end consumer systems don't even benefit from the bandwidth of DDR3. Set your Z77, Z68, X58 or X79 rig to single channel. The performance will barely be altered by a colossal bandwidth reduction. Severs do benefit though, or so I'm told.

Rendering programs would take a hit surely?

I mean I can effect out put just by changing ram speed.

[largon]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

Not at the same time. As you said, channels are interleaved.

Not sure what you mean. If you got and n-channeled memory controller and as manu single rank DDR3 DIMMs onboard, the mem ctrl can R/W all the chips at the same time. If there's more than n ranks though, then it's a nono as the interface is just n64bit*. I removed the line about DDR4 lacking rank interleaving from my earlier post 'cause it makes no sense and I don't know why I wrote it. DDR4 can do rank interleaving just fine.

*three and 3×64bit for tri channel Nehalem.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by largon

Not sure what you mean. If you got and n-channeled memory controller and as manu single rank DDR3 DIMMs onboard, the mem ctrl can R/W all the chips at the same time. If there's more than n ranks though, then it's a nono as the interface is just n64bit*. I removed the line about DDR4 lacking rank interleaving from my earlier post 'cause it makes no sense and I don't know why I wrote it. DDR4 can do rank interleaving just fine.

*three and 3×64bit for tri channel Nehalem.

I think you confused what I was trying to say. I meant you couldn't do separate memory operations on all DIMMs assuming you have two or more DIMMs per channel. It has been suggested that DDR4 in server configurations will be switched a lot like how PLX did with their PCI-E bridge chip.

[largon]

That's the thing, unlike previous interations DDR4 does not allow more than a single DIMM on a single channel.

Originally Posted by Aquinus

DDR4 in server configurations will be switched a lot like how PLX did with their PCI-E bridge chip.

That's just full buffering rising it's head once again:
[Mem ctrl] <-serial signaling-> [AMB chip] <-parallel signaling-> [DRAM chippery]

Nothing inherent with DDR4.