Why I'm now an Apple fan...

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

There are definitely other companies out there that value their customers... but I'm curious as to where Dell monitors are taken for replacement, how long the downtime is, and who pays for the shipping (if they're not taken to a local store)?



How long was the downtime in between cards? Did you get a used or a refurbished card back or a brand new, sealed retail card? Every time I RMA something it's refurbished. The one time I had to contact Asus (first time building a system), I was charged for phone support. Of course I paid since I wanted to get the X58 system running, but paying for support for a product I just bought is never fun.

Well, I have never once had to pay for shipping to return anything. YOu just use your words and ask nicely to have a pre-paid shipping label and 90% of the time they will honor it. I know that Cadaveca's turn around for when he had a broken monitor from shipment was pretty quick. I think about a week. I usually would get refurbished depending on the part. Motherboard and GPUs are ussually always refurbs while memory and hard drives/SSs are brand new.

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

There are definitely other companies out there that value their customers... but I'm curious as to where Dell monitors are taken for replacement, how long the downtime is, and who pays for the shipping (if they're not taken to a local store)?



How long was the downtime in between cards? Did you get a used or a refurbished card back or a brand new, sealed retail card? Every time I RMA something it's refurbished. The one time I had to contact Asus (first time building a system), I was charged for phone support. Of course I paid since I wanted to get the X58 system running, but paying for support for a product I just bought is never fun.

As for the fanaticism... guilty as charged. Any company, regardless of whether it's Apple, Dell, Asus, etc will earn my loyalty if they treat me like Apple did. It just so happens that many are fans of Apple because Apple is one of the few companies that do things right (by my book).

People need to raise their standards, cause its low standards that make it easy for companies to get away with the walking all over us that they are... well... already getting away with. If you are fine with the time and money (gas surely?) you spent replacing the product and would gladly waste more time and money getting more product replaced then continue on with your "satisfaction".

I can't recall the downtime as it was a while back, maybe a week? And I don't know if the card came back brand new or refurbished but it came back sealed that is for sure. I paid no shipping, no phone charges and I shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes...

[entropy13]

Amen, Kantastic! It is with much trepidation to see that you have achieved through enlightenment through the excellent products of the Holy Apple!

Glory be the Sacred Company!

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Immaturity is not an excuse for quality assurance. Also, there's been screens out there with higher pixel denisty than the iPad 2 for a long time (used in radiology) so it isn't exactly immature in the first place--just new to Apple.




But where do you but Windows and Android products at? Electronics stores like Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Target, etc. You don't go to brick and morter Microsoft store to buy Windows products, do you? You don't go to a brick and morter Google store to buy an Android product, do you? You don't go to a Dell brick and morter store to buy a Dell computer, do you? Where there's competition, there are many parts and peices involved.

We're not talking about the products here, we're talking about where you buy and return a defective product to.

If HTC could profit $412.49 on every phone they sell for $600 like Apple did on the 16 GB iPhone 4, HTC could afford to put 5 stores in Manhattan too.

What about the expenses of having stores in scattered about the US? What about the higher-than-standard wages Apple pays its employees which, mind you, are in a country where the unemployment rate is abnormally high for our GDP? Where do you think they find the resources to maintain their operations within the country? I don't know what point you're trying to make, you're reinforcing my argument that Apple has more accessible and professional service. Point taken!

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

Well, I have never once had to pay for shipping to return anything. YOu just use your words and ask nicely to have a pre-paid shipping label and 90% of the time they will honor it. I know that Cadaveca's turn around for when he had a broken monitor from shipment was pretty quick. I think about a week. I usually would get refurbished depending on the part. Motherboard and GPUs are ussually always refurbs while memory and hard drives/SSs are brand new.

A week (which you say is quick, so I don't want to imagine slow) versus a 2 hour round trip from home or a 45 minute trip during my breaks between classes...

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

People need to raise their standards, cause its low standards that make it easy for companies to get away with the walking all over us that they are... well... already getting away with. If you are fine with the time and money (gas surely?) you spent replacing the products and would gladly waste more time and money getting replaced more and more then continue on with your "satisfaction".

I can't recall the downtime as it was a while back maybe a week? And I don't know if the card came back brand new or refurbished but it came back sealed that is for sure. I paid no shipping, no phone charges and I shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes...

I get a new product directly off the shelf every single time. As for travel expenses, I go to college about 15 minutes away by foot from the Apple store so it's a non-issue. I can't speak for others though, which is why this thread is about my revelation based on my personal experiences.

[entropy13]

Ignore the wailing of the non-believers like Ford, Kantastic, they are beneath the level of those who are truly enlightened.

[D4S4]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

I'm not putting Apple store employees on a pedestal or giving them credit they don't deserve, it's just a reference.

you're not. apple is.

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

I get a new product directly off the shelf every single time. As for travel expenses, I go to college about 15 minutes away from the Apple store by foot so it's a non-issue.

So then your satisfaction should be in the convince of the apple store's location which could be distributed evenly between your schools location, the apple stores location and your choice of school and store. And with the response you gave me you should be able to realize why your reason for apple being great cannot apply to everyone simply because an apple store can't be conviently located near everyone.

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by entropy13

Ignore the wailing of the non-believers like Ford, Kantastic, they are beneath the level of those who are truly enlightened.

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...YEeF_bfsmA&t=1

The words of the truly enlightened are beyond your comprehension, of course you will never be sure.

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by entropy13

The words of the truly enlightened are beyond your comprehension, of course you will never be sure.

Im not sure how a piece of plastic can truely enlighten anyone?

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

Im not sure how a piece of plastic can truely enlighten anyone?

See? You can't even fathom the true nature of the Holy Apple's great products and service.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

So then your satisfaction should be in the convince of the apple store's location which could be distributed evenly between your schools location, the apple stores location and your choice of school and store. And with the response you gave me you should be able to realize why your reason for apple being great cannot apply to everyone simply because an apple store can't be conviently located near everyone.

My school happened to be close to an Apple store. People happen to live close to Micro Center. I happen to live far, far away from Micro Center (by public transit). It would be ignorant of me to attribute my new appreciation of Apple's customer service solely to the chance that I happen to attend school in the area. Apple has hundreds of locations spread across 45 states, a much better ratio than a competitor like Gateway's 1 store in 1 state. Is Apple more accessible than every other product manufacturer? Yes. Is it more accessible than Best Buy? Maybe not (though I'm sure it would give them a run for its money), but then there's a reason they're often called Worst Buy. Best Buy required ID from me so that they could scan it into their system the last 2 times I returned something (low cost items). When I asked why, they said that they started the policy because people are known to buy things to use and return. Apple asked me for ID once to verify my name for the initial pickup since I set it up over the phone.

Oh and FWIW, when I bought an iPad as a farewell present for someone last year, Best Buy gave me an iPad 2 instead of a new iPad. That sure was one embarrassing phone call when I asked the recipient if he liked his new new iPad.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

What about the expenses of having stores in scattered about the US? What about the higher-than-standard wages Apple pays its employees which, mind you, are in a country where the unemployment rate is abnormally high for our GDP? Where do you think they find the resources to maintain their operations within the country? I don't know what point you're trying to make, you're reinforcing my argument that Apple has more accessible and professional service. Point taken!

Because of Apple's huge profit margins on their products and services, they can afford to pay high wages and running stores that aren't profitable. From my research, it doesn't look like an Apple Store has ever closed its doors permanently.

Even in this crappy economy, Apple products are still getting record sales. Hook, line, and sinker comes to mind. Also, monopoly.

The first Apple Store opened on May 19, 2001. iPod (first major "cult" product) debuted October 23, 2001. The success of iPod was due to the iTunes Store which debuted April 28, 2003.

I'm reinforcing the point that since 2003, Apple has established an unshakable monopoly. They hook people at their Apple Stores with their iPod device (later iPhone and now iPad), they real in the line with the iTunes Store (which, until recently, required iTunes or Apple product to decode), and their sinker is in the form of lawyers that attack anyone that tries to directly compete.

The solution is simple: iOS and Mac OS X needs to become the product of a separate company (like Google with Android and Microsoft with Windows), Apple Stores need to be made their separate company, and iTunes Store needs to be made a separate company. Apple, itself, can retain its Mac, iPhone, iPad, and iPod products but it will be forced to buy the operating systems from a separate company, sell content via a separate company (they cannot show favoritism what-so-ever towards the former iTunes Store), and they will have to sell their products non-exclusively through many stores, not just Apple Store (which should be forced to rebrand). Google and Microsoft may, at some point, be forced to break off Windows Store and Android Store from their core companies as well.

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

My school happened to be close to an Apple store. People happen to live close to Micro Center. I happen to live far, far away from Micro Center (by public transit). It would be ignorant of me to attribute my new appreciation of Apple's customer service solely because of me happening to attend school in the area. Apple has hundreds of locations spread across 45 states, a much better ratio than a competitor like Gateway's 1 store in 1 state. Is Apple more accessible than every other product manufacturer? Yes. Is it more accessible than Best Buy? Maybe not (though I'm sure it would give them a run for its money), but then there's a reason they're often called Worst Buy. Best Buy required ID from me so that they could scan it into their system the last 2 times I returned something (low cost items). When I asked, they said that they started the policy because people are known to buy things to use and return. Apple asked me for ID once to verify my name for the pickup since I set it up over the phone.

Somethings are by chance but your schools location... someone chose for it to be there as did someone for the apple store. It would be ignorant for you not to attribute your new appreciation of apple for its location. Because if it weren't close and you had to spend more money and more time then I think you (like some others) would be more annoyed with having to do several returns on a product. Of course everyone values their time and money differently. Some have plenty of both or don't care for either and perhaps it is those who value apple more than others.

Your claim on apple being good/great/whatever because they saw through to replace a faulty product is not enough to convince me and nor should it be enough to convince anyone of any company's "greatness". Is it a good thing, sure it is. I'd like to think the expensive product I get works as it should. Does it make any company great? No.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Because of Apple's huge profit margins on their products and services, they can afford to pay high wages and running stores that aren't profitable. From my research, it doesn't look like an Apple Store has ever closed its doors permanently.

Even in this crappy economy, Apple products are still getting record sales. Hook, line, and sinker comes to mind. Also, monopoly.

The first Apple Store opened on May 19, 2001. iPod (first major "cult" product) debuted October 23, 2001. The success of iPod was due to the iTunes Store which debuted April 28, 2003.

I'm reinforcing the point that since 2003, Apple has established an unshakable monopoly. They hook people at their Apple Stores with their iPod device (later iPhone and now iPad), they real in the line with the iTunes Store, and their sinker is in the form of lawyers with that attack anyone that tries to directly compete.

So you're criticizing them for being successful because they operate according to a consumer-oriented business model and have dedicated stores where they allow customers to freely try their products and buy them if they find it to their liking? Because they have employees being paid high wages to help customers gain a more intuitive experience with their products, something no other company in the industry does? And because they sell products that cater to the general mass and not self-proclaimed enthusiasts (I'm guilty) that scavenge the market for a product that offers the best value, therein netting lowest profits for the company producing it?

And have you forgotten that Samsung, HTC, LG, etc all have a team of lawyers? Most that are actively working on lawsuits between each other as we speak?

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

Im not sure how a piece of plastic can truely enlighten anyone?

Mines made of metal and glass But I don't feel anymore enlightened.(No fanboy just have one ) Just ribbing ya

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

Somethings are by chance but your schools location... someone chose for it to be there as did someone for the apple store. It would be ignorant for you not to attribute your new appreciation of apple for its location. Because if it weren't close and you had to spend more money and more time then I think you (like some others) would be more annoyed with having to do several returns on a product. Of course everyone values their time and money differently. Some have plenty of both and perhaps it is those who value apple more than others.

Your claim on apple being good/great/whatever because they saw through to replace a faulty product is not enough to convince me and nor should it be enough to convince anyone of any company's "greatness". Is it a good thing, sure it is. I'd like to think the expensive product I get works as it should. Does it make anyone great? No.

I'm attributing my appreciation of Apple to the fact that they replaced my iPad twice without even so much as a remark, not because of their location. And even if I were praising them only because I happened to be conveniently close to a store, is being within proximity of an Apple store that unique to me when the franchise operates in hundreds of locations throughout 45 states? If it is, I have nothing to say. Well, maybe I do: curse them for being prosperous!

[casual swift]

I have to agree.... They definitely are not scared to backup their products. I'm going back to the Iphone 5 and I couldn't be happier about it. =)

[Fourstaff]

Once again, we have someone commenting that Apple is actually halfway decent based on his experience, and an army of online warriors just have to try to convince him that Apple is actually a greedy capitalist who is out there trying to get his money and soul. What is wrong with liking a company with fairly efficient customer services?

[erixx]

As said I am sincerly happy you fixed the issue. Yet please do yourself a favour, stop using corporate bullshit brainwashing neolingua. When I go eat a Burgerking hamburger (god forgive) that they sell as "the best hamburger in the world" I do not go to my friends in the forums and tell them I actually did eat the "best burger in the world". I know this would not be true, just as the employees-geniuses are not real geniuses! This is so hilarious you made my day! haha!

Paraphrasing Clint Eastwood: The country belongs to us, not to the politicians (read: marketing teams)...

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Once again, we have someone commenting that Apple is actually halfway decent based on his experience, and an army of online warriors just have to try to convince him that Apple is actually a greedy capitalist who is out there trying to get his money and soul. What is wrong with liking a company with fairly efficient customer services?

Someone had to be the voice of reason in here

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

So you're criticizing them for being successful because they operate according to a consumer-oriented business model and have dedicated stores where they allow customers to freely try their products and buy them if they find it to their liking? Because they have employees being paid high wages to help customers gain a more intuitive experience with their products, something no other company in the industry does? And because they sell products that cater to the general mass and not self-proclaimed enthusiasts (I'm guilty) that scavenge the market for a product that offers the best value, therein netting lowest profits for the company producing it?

I suggest you read over this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolistic_competition

1. Product differentiation - Check, there's slight variations in all products sold in especially MP3 player, tablet, and smartphone markets. There's a greater amount of varation among computers.
2. Many firms - Check, I named many previously in the smartphone market.
3. Free entry and exit in the long run - Check, those with the capital can enter and those without can leave.
4. Independent decision making - Check, no one company is necessarily dictating what the others do.
5. Market Power - Check, Apple has almost absolute control over their market. They've even demonstrated power over their manufacturers in China.
6. Buyers and Sellers do not have perfect information - Apple has control over their own supply chain and only they can know their information (and what little they release to investors).

Most stores sell many products so if you walk in their door, they're trying to sell one of many competing products. Apple Stores carry only one product and there is little to no competition amongst products (and certainly not manufacturers) there. If you walk into an Apple Store and say "I want an 802.11ac router," they're not going to say "here's a Buffallo router that has that," no, they're going to say "we don't carry that, but we do have this AirPort router that has 802.11n." They will try their best to convince you that you don't need 802.11ac and most people will buy the inferior product. Few will walk out the door and go to a competing store that carries the product they explicitly looked for.

I can't name one company, except Apple, that has such top-to-bottom control of manufacturer to sale. Even McDonalds has to buy their beef from producers and distributors where they have to purchase it at whatever price it is available for. They can't dictate, like Apple has, to its Chinese manufacturers. If one Chinese manufacturer doesn't comply, they'll simply switch to another, and another, and another.

Originally Posted by Kantastic

And have you forgotten that Samsung, HTC, LG, etc all have a team of lawyers? Most that are actively working on lawsuits between each other as we speak?

There's that but they also have to sick those lawyers on suppliers, manufacturers, and retailers that they don't control--unlike Apple.

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

I'm attributing my appreciation of Apple to the fact that they replaced my iPad twice without even so much as a remark, not because of their location.

Again but it is do to its convenient proximity to your school that makes the replacement easy. Or do you deny this? If so, then if it were further and it cost your more effort to make each replacement several times, would you still be ok with that?

Originally Posted by Kantastic

And even if I were praising them only because I happened to be close, is being within proximity of a franchise that unique to me when the franchise operates in hundreds of locations throughout 45 states? If it is, I have nothing to say.

Well now you are beginning to sound a little self centered it seems? There are certainly far more people not near an apple store than near an apple store. You can't assume that because you are near one everyone is near one? So yes in some respects it is unique to you. But of course location is one thing, then their is transportation and time to consider as well.

I can acknowledged your appreciation for how conveniently close the store is to you and the benefits it provides you in terms of replacing broken products, but you are tricked into thinking that the broken product replacement is anything to be worth mentioning.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by erixx

As said I am sincerly happy you fixed the issue. Yet please do yourself a favour, stop using corporate bullshit brainwashing neolingua. When I go eat a Burgerking hamburger (god forgive) that they sell as "the best hamburger in the world" I do not go to my friends in the forums and tell them I actually did eat the "best burger in the world". I know this would not be true, just as the employees-geniuses are not real geniuses! This is so hilarious you made my day! haha!

Paraphrasing Clint Eastwood: The country belongs to us, not to the politicians (read: marketing teams)...

My only problem with your analogy is... did you really feel that the burger you ate was the best burger you've ever had? And I'll assume you didn't read the first page of the thread so I won't bother to address your issue with the vernacular I use to reference Apple employees.

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

Again but it is do to its convenient proximity to your school that makes the replacement easy. Or do you deny this? If so, then if it were further and it cost your more effort to make each replacement several times you'd be ok with that?

My first trip to get a replacement was from home, which was 45 minutes away by public transit, maybe 25-30 by car. That was very manageable and I have no complaints. I spent 50 minutes on the train each way going to and from high school for 4 years, and I'm now spending about 1 hour each way going to and from college, again, from home. Being able to get to the Apple store quicker by foot because I happen to attend school in the area is a bonus. My cost and effort to replace the tablet regardless of where I am in NYC would be $2.25 each way and anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours of sitting on my ass while the train weaves through intricate tunnels and bridges. It's actually less since I used to have a school-provided, fully-prepaid subway card, and now I buy a 30-day unlimited card for a flat fee of $104. The more I use it, the cheaper it gets per trip. Even going to school 5 days a week ($2.25 each time x 2 times a day x 5 days a week x 4 weeks a month) is $90 alone, but I can go anywhere I want on weekends, holidays, and non-school hours for no additional cost to the $104 flat rate.

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

Well now you are begin a little self centered it seems? There are certainly far more people not near an apple store than near an apple store. You can't assume that because you are near one everyone is near one? So yes in some respects it is unique to you. But of course location is one thing, then their is transportation and time to consider as well.

There are certainly far more people near an Apple store than there are HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, Samsung, Asus, Acer, Lenovo, HTC, and LG combined. I can assume that majority of consumers have easier access to an Apple store than they do for any other electronic company.

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

I can acknowledged your appreciation for how conveniently close the store is to you and the benefits it provides you in terms of replacing broken products, but you are tricked into thinking that the broken product replacement is anything to be worth mentioning.

Quality of customer service is relative, and in my case relative to my experiences with other manufacturers (Asus and Linksys charging for phone support, Sony and HP selling me dud products and refusing to honor replacements, etc). Apple is easily the most accommodating of the bunch.

[n-ster]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

With regards to my particular situation, most display manufacturers and retailers have specific dead pixel policies, and retails like Amazon have been known to blacklist customers for frequent returns of high-value items regardless of the reason (read about a guy who exchanged a few Macbooks since he was as anal as me and wanted a perfect one) and Amazon blacklisted him. They also blocked his access to his Kindle books. Apple replaced it twice and will do it a third time no questions asked. That's more than I can ask for, and that's more than any other company will tolerate.

If you want easy exchanges, you go buy your computer in a store, some have warranty things that let you deal with the store and they will deal with the manufacturer for you etc. I'd rather save my money and buy online and have less convenient service.

Also, it is pretty funny that he did exchanges for MACBOOKS... aren't you shooting yourself in the foot with that example if you want to give a better image of Apple? Oh and I have no idea but shouldn't he be able to do an exchange at an Apple store if he has one near him?

Usually, Apple fanboys pride themselves by shouting they never have any problems whatsoever with their computers etc, but I have found this to not be true, they seem to have just as many problems. Another argument is that they have the best quality parts and "you buy it and it just works, no problems", I have to disagree on that too.

I do understand that you are saying Apple has great replacement service, and I somewhat agree. I don't necessarily agree on customer service. For example, my sister went to the Apple store twice and with 2 different Geniuses because she had a bug on her safari that made the tabs disappear or make them unusable or wtv. one of them spent hours on it while the other one spent 20 mins. They weren't able to fix the problem and basically told her she was SOL. She came home that weekend and she asked me to take a look at it as it was seriously crippling her ability to do research etc for Uni. I updated Safari to the newest version and voila. What idiots dont... I mean... common a GeekSquad would have done that...

If your argument is only a good replacement service, yes, but that doesn't outweigh all the cons, or the lack of pros for the price you pay