Why I'm now an Apple fan...

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Most stores sell many products so if you walk in their door, they're trying to sell one of many competing products. Apple Stores carry only one product and there is little to no competition amongst products (and certainly not manufacturers) there. If you walk into an Apple Store and say "I want an 802.11ac router," they're not going to say "here's a Buffallo router that has that," no, they're going to say "we don't carry that, but we do have this AirPort router that has 802.11n." They will try their best to convince them they don't need 802.11ac and most people will buy the inferior product. Few will walk out the door and go to a competing store that carries the product they explicitly looked for.

I can't name one company, except Apple, that has such top-to-bottom control of manufacturer to sale. Even McDonalds has to buy their beef from producers and distributors where they have to purchase it at whatever price it is available for--they can't dictate like Apple has done to its Chinese outsourcers.

Okay well now your just reaching...You don't walk into an Apple store looking for a Windows Phone now do ya?

[FordGT90Concept]

Where's the Windows brick-and-mortar store? Where's the Samsung brick-and-mortar store? Where's the HTC brick-and-mortar store? They don't exist because there's too much competition amongst them to afford it. What does exist is AT&T, US Cellular, Verizon, and Sprint stores (or providers). They carry an array of competing iOS, Android, and Windows Phone products.

[AphexDreamer]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

My first trip to get a replacement was from home, which was 45 minutes away by public transit, maybe 25-30 by car. That was very manageable and I have no complaints. I spent 50 minutes on the train each way going to and from high school for 4 years, and I'm now spending about 1 hour each way going to and from college from home. Being able to get there quicker by foot because I happen to attend school in the area is a bonus. My cost and effort to replace the tablet regardless of where I am in NYC would be $2.25 and anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours of sitting on my ass while the train weaves through intricate tunnels and bridges.

So you must enjoy taking time from your day to do these things...

Originally Posted by Kantastic

There are certainly far more people near an Apple store than there are HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, Samsung, Asus, Acer, Lenovo, HTC, and LG combined. I can assume that majority of consumers have easier access to an Apple store than they do for any other electronic company.

Those combined can be found anywhere. They don't use propitiatory stores, they use every and any store.

Originally Posted by Kantastic

Quality of customer service is relative, and in my case relative to my experiences with other manufacturers (Asus and Linksys charging for phone support, Sony and HP selling me dud products and refusing to honor replacements, etc). Apple is easily the most accommodating of the bunch.

Well of course its relative. That is why you started your thread on your relative appreciation for Apple. I'm just showing you why others would not find your relative enjoyment of replacing broken products as rewarding as you have. And based on the response you had given me that you were 15 minutes away, I proceeded to tell you why it was really attributed to your close proximity.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by n-ster

If you want easy exchanges, you go buy your computer in a store, some have warranty things that let you deal with the store and they will deal with the manufacturer for you etc. I'd rather save my money and buy online and have less convenient service.

Also, it is pretty funny that he did exchanges for MACBOOKS... aren't you shooting yourself in the foot with that example if you want to give a better image of Apple? Oh and I have no idea but shouldn't he be able to do an exchange at an Apple store if he has one near him?

Shooting myself in the foot? No. There's nothing wrong with not settling for a perfect unit, and that includes the pettiest of things such as backlight bleeding. I'm doing it too, but at least I know Apple won't blacklist me, take away my Apple account along with my apps, and never sell to me again. They replace it until I'm happy. Model retailer? I would say so.

Originally Posted by n-ster

Usually, Apple fanboys pride themselves by shouting they never have any problems whatsoever with their computers etc, but I have found this to not be true, they seem to have just as many problems. Another argument is that they have the best quality parts and "you buy it and it just works, no problems", I have to disagree on that too.

I do understand that you are saying Apple has great replacement service, and I somewhat agree. I don't necessarily agree on customer service. For example, my sister went to the Apple store twice and with 2 different Geniuses because she had a bug on her safari that made the tabs disappear or make them unusable or wtv. one of them spent hours on it while the other one spent 20 mins. They weren't able to fix the problem and basically told her she was SOL. She came home that weekend and she asked me to take a look at it as it was seriously crippling her ability to do research etc for Uni. I updated Safari to the newest version and voila. What idiots dont... I mean... common a GeekSquad would have done that...

But you were able to go to an Apple store and they did (or tried to do it) for no cost. Your sister's Geniuses (AND I NEED TO REITERATE TO OTHERS THE FACT THAT THIS IS THEIR TERMINOLOGY, NOT MINE) just happened to be idiots. Although I'm sure if your sister was a little more adamant on resolving the issue before she left, the Geniuses would have sought out someone more knowledgeable in troubleshooting. Then again, I can't speak for their technical department since, as I've said many times, I have yet to experience it first hand. When I do it may or may not sway my current position, but that will be something time will tell.

Originally Posted by n-ster

If your argument is only a good replacement service, yes, but that doesn't outweigh all the cons, or the lack of pros for the price you pay

What cons to be exact? And what price am I paying that I wouldn't pay elsewhere? I paid $544 after tax for an iPad with an amazing display (better than the top-tier Asus TF700T's 1200P screen) that makes reading .pdf files for school a breeze, the accessibility of Apple support 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. No waiting for emails, no paying for phone support, no shipping hassles, nothing. I also received a free $50 iTunes/Apps gift card because I'm a student. An Asus TF700T would cost me roughly the same with tax, and even with tax it's the same since I get the $50 Apple gift card.

A Zenbook Prime is $1000 vs. a Macbook Air for $1100. Sure the Zenbook comes with a 1080P IPS screen, but the Air, again, comes with Apple's convenience and accessibility, an amazing trackpad (that no Windows machine has ever come close to), A REALLY COOL MAGSAFE CHARGER!!! , and a much more stable, closed operating system that also manages to automatically sync my files and documents across all my other Apple devices, a headache-less feature that I dearly need for college.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Where's the Windows brick-and-mortar store? Where's the Samsung brick-and-mortar store? Where's the HTC brick-and-mortar store? They don't exist because there's too much competition amongst them to afford it. What does exist is AT&T, US Cellular, Verizon, and Sprint stores (or providers). They carry an array of competing iOS, Android, and Windows Phone products.

Jesus Christ what point are you trying to make here? Apple is a 300 billion dollar company, Microsoft is a 230 billion dollar company, and Google is a 200 billion dollar company. They're all more than capable of spitting out retail locations, especially Google since it, like Apple, owns both the hardware and software aspect of its smartphones and can easily source out manufacturers to make laptops to run its Chromium OS. I may be wrong though since I've done no extensive research, but you keep comparing Apple to HTC... how about a business that's actually comparable?

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

So you must enjoy taking time from your day to do these things...

Those combined can be found anywhere. They don't use propitiatory stores, they use every and any store.

Well of course its relative. That is why you started your thread on your relative appreciation for Apple. I'm just showing you why others would not find your relative enjoyment of replacing broken products as rewarding as you have. And based on the response you had given me that you were 15 minutes away, I proceeded to tell you why it was really attributed to your close proximity.

I can find a Verizon store 10 minutes away from my house and a Best Buy like 20 minutes from my house. Will Verizon have my hypothetical defective Nokia Lumia 900 fixed in (and I'm being generous) a week? Will Geek Squad repair my device for free if it's still under warranty?

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Where's the Windows brick-and-mortar store? Where's the Samsung brick-and-mortar store? Where's the HTC brick-and-mortar store? They don't exist because there's too much competition amongst them to afford it. What does exist is AT&T, US Cellular, Verizon, and Sprint stores (or providers). They carry an array of competing iOS, Android, and Windows Phone products.

I'm sure a couple of them have the resources to have their own stores. But do they have a enough/diverse products to warrant it?(Samsung comes to mind first they make ALOT more than phones of course)

I get where your coming from but you can't blame Apple for being the only one to actually DO IT and be successful at it

[Kantastic]

Okay guys, it's 5 AM so I'm going to call it quits for the night.

I'd like to offer a thanks to those who offered constructive arguments for two reasons. The first being that it's always nice to debate with my fellow TPU members on anything and everything, that's what keeps this place so fun and has me coming back day after day.

But to be honest, although everything I've said is true (including going to Apple and replacing my iPad tomorrow/later today and me being a huge Apple fan now), the second reason I would like to thank everyone is because I made this thread as a personal experiment to test out a writing technique that I learned in English which involves incorporating the conflicting or alternative perspectives of others in my argument(s). I'm sorry if I may have gotten a little harsh, but it's 5 in the morning and I'm running on 8 hours of sleep for the entire week so forgive me if I crossed a line, I get really grumpy when I'm sleep deprived (which is like all the time).

Thanks to all those who contributed!!!

[Phusius]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

Many computer enthusiasts say that Apple is a company with questionable business ethics and overpriced products, but from my recent experience I would have to disagree and commend Apple for their excellent customer service. I purchased a new iPad about two weeks ago and waited for my case and screen protectors to arrive before opening it. When the goods arrived, I unwrapped my new toy. But upon opening it I immediately noticed there was a stuck pixel-like blemish on the screen. A little diagnosis later and the conclusion was reached that the blemish was neither a dead pixel nor a ding on the surface, it was something under the screen. With that information, I went to exchange the iPad at the Apple store. I unfortunately arrived without making an appointment. The wait time was said to be over two hours. I sat there for a while until the Genius who scheduled my appointment approached me and asked what the issue was with my iPad. I showed her the blemish, and after taking one look, she took me right over to the counter and helped me make the exchange.

The second iPad worked great for a few days, but yesterday I noticed that it had a bright green stuck pixel, which went unnoticed for the entire time I used my new toy since the PPI is extraordinarily high with the retina display. To add onto my lack of fortune, the iPad was one day past the 14 day return window. I went to the Apple store again to explain my case, and again, the Genius took one look and exchanged it, no questions asked. I checked for dead pixels in the store immediately after getting the replacement and it checked out clean.

I go home, do whatever I had to do (shower, eat, etc), and decided to take my iPad out to play Draw Something before bed so the lights were already off in my room. Upon turning it on I noticed that there were 4 areas of backlight bleeding on the left side of the display. What did I do? I called Apple, explained my case, and was told that all I had to do was take it back, get it looked at, and have it exchanged despite the amount of times I've already exchanged it and the fact that it's past the window of time for return. I plan on doing that tomorrow, and since I'm already on my 3rd iPad, I don't see why this time will be different. I was told time and time again that it was not a problem, and that me being satisfied with my product is their priority.

I don't think any company has ever demonstrated such exemplary customer service, at least not to me personally. I know a lot of my friends here at TPU feel that Apple is a company worth boycotting, but I, for the first time, beg to differ. Yes their prices command an industry high premium. Yes they might mistreat their employees overseas (of which I share an ethnicity). And yes they might be a little too eager to litigate when it comes to patent infringement, but they are also just as eager to please a customer. Would I ever buy from Apple again despite the woes of my first Apple product? Absolutely! Macbook Air & iPhone 5 (whenever it's out) here I come!

tl;dr - Apple skeptic experiences top in class customer service first hand and converts to an Apple fanatic.

I bought a 1440p monitor from green_sum off ebay, 289.99 free ship no tax, guess what? 0 dead pixels and hardly any backlight bleed... lulz

I don't like Apple. I buy from shady dealers who love me long time right from the first date.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by Phusius

I bought a 1440p monitor from green_sum off ebay, 289.99 free ship no tax, guess what? 0 dead pixels and hardly any backlight bleed... lulz

I don't like Apple. I buy from shady dealers who love me long time right from the first date.

Well.. hardly any means some right? My current iPad has 4 points of backlight bleed along one side... but it's actually hard to notice unless the lights are off, the brightness is set to high, the background is pitch black, and the iPad is held as a slightly off handle. The difference here is that I'm getting a replacement in the next 12 hours for what others an average consumer would deem to be a totally acceptable iPad.

OKAY FOREALZ THIS TIME! G'NITE!

[Frick]

I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say that the discussion is good. I came here expecting a war, but no. Good going guys and gals!

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

Jesus Christ what point are you trying to make here? Apple is a 300 billion dollar company, Microsoft is a 230 billion dollar company, and Google is a 200 billion dollar company. They're all more than capable of spitting out retail locations, especially Google since it, like Apple, owns both the hardware and software aspect of its smartphones and can easily source out manufacturers to make laptops to run its Chromium OS. I may be wrong though since I've done no extensive research, but you keep comparing Apple to HTC... how about a business that's actually comparable?

Apple only has about a dozen distrinct products (things you can go to a brick and mortar store to buy). Microsoft and Google have at least 50 either directly (e.g. Chrome Book) or through aquisitions (like Motorola).

Originally Posted by Kantastic

I can find a Verizon store 10 minutes away from my house and a Best Buy like 20 minutes from my house. Will Verizon have my hypothetical defective Nokia Lumia 900 fixed in (and I'm being generous) a week? Will Geek Squad repair my device for free if it's still under warranty?

Yes, they'll take your defective Lumia 900, copy your files over to another one, and give you that one. They'll then send the defective Lumia 900 in and get reimbursed for it. My dad has done that a LG Quantum at Hills Electronics (which has a contract with AT&T). It actually doesn't matter who made the phone (could be an iPhone for that matter), they handle them all the same. Hills Electronics, Best Buy, Walmart, Circuit City, etc. are manufacturer-neutral. As far as customer/customer service is concerned, the manufacturer doesn't matter. The product is obviously still returned to the manufacturer but none of that involves the customer.

Geek Squad...it depends on what is wrong. If the product, for example, didn't include a cable, they could give you a cable and pass the cost on to the manufacturer. If it is something they are not equiped to handle, they have to send it in to the manufacturer. Typically, GeekSquad would only be used outside of the standard 30-day warranty where manufacturer is the only option.

Anyway, I'm done in this thread. I've said what needed to be said.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Yes, they'll take your defective Lumia 900, copy your files over to another one, and give you that one. They'll then send the defective Lumia 900 in and get reimbursed for it. My dad has done that a LG Quantum at Hills Electronics (which has a contract with AT&T). It actually doesn't matter who made the phone (could be an iPhone for that matter), they handle them all the same.

This depends on the store I think. I bought a media player for a cousin at a big european retailer, and the player broke within a month. I returned it, they sent it to their shops, confirmed the screen was defective, THEN sent me a new one. Took more than a month. While I agree that Apple service isn't spectacular (compare to the likes of HP's premium offerings), it isn't shabby either. It's convenient, if you happen to live near their stores.

[FordGT90Concept]

You're talking about a product that isn't contracted. Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, etc. are contract services. They respond very differently in terms of defective products.

[Phusius]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

Well.. hardly any means some right? My current iPad has 4 points of backlight bleed along one side... but it's actually hard to notice unless the lights are off, the brightness is set to high, the background is pitch black, and the iPad is held as a slightly off handle. The difference here is that I'm getting a replacement in the next 12 hours for what others an average consumer would deem to be a totally acceptable iPad.

OKAY FOREALZ THIS TIME! G'NITE!

I just learned Apple boys are really really picky. lulz

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Phusius

I just learned Apple boys are really really picky. lulz

Naah, just Kantastic.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

You're talking about a product that isn't contracted. Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, etc. are contract services. They respond very differently in terms of defective products.

What about laptops, desktops, WiFi-only tablets, and monitors?

Originally Posted by Phusius

I just learned Apple boys are really really picky. lulz

I'm an Apple fan for 2 weeks and own 1 apple product. It's an honor to know that I qualify as an Apple "boy". Really though, Apple does charge more than the industry average, partly so they can offer the service they do. I pay for it so why not take advantage of it?

OKAY, I SWEAR, I'M GOING TO SLEEP

[n-ster]

The cons of apple products? Cost if you compare similar specked stuff (retina ipad/MBP are exceptions as they are unique) , lack of features like USB ports on ipad , flash support etc lack of upgradeability and longevity (batteries for iphones, MBP) stuff like oh and that non-standard ports (micro-USB would have been nice)

Pros somewhat innovative as you can get high res tablet. Replacement service

The base price isnt that bad on an ipad... but if you want a sim card slot or more than 16gb... its 100$ to double capacity and 150$ for the 3g or 4g wtv

[erixx]

Sleep, genius.... lol

[1nf3rn0x]

[Elmo]

Nothing great about the ipad. My ipad crashes alot . In terms of OS its limited . For developer usage its pointless its geared more towards normal consumers for daily stuff like checking mail/watching movies/games . But its silly that its limited to only mp4 and there isnt really a good file management system . Its also hard to upload pictures from the ipad . In the end the plus points are its user friendly and portable .

[INSTG8R]

While I generally disagree with Ford's general "Anti Apple" stance. He does have a fair point on the Origin of the Apple Store/iTunes beginnings. That's how I ended up getting "sucked in"

When my Nokia N95 went wonky I got it back from getting fixed I sold it.

I decided to try out the "new" HTC phone(can't remember the model) It had Windows Mobile on it. BUT because I'm in Norway the phone is in Norwegian(I'm Canadian) Well this Windows is "chip locked" language wise. "Norwegian Windows" That's IT!. I want English Windows different chip/phone. So Impossible. Sold it the next day. Well my next choice was iPhone 3G. I mean up until then I wouldn't even have Quicktime on my PC's.

Well like Ford said you NEEDED iTunes to even fire it up. Bang that's it I'm now "chained" to it. Now I'm perfectly happy with my 3G does what I need for a phone. I skipped 3GS, I'm now on 4 and skipping 4S So I'm now well "invested" into Apps and the odd iTunes album purchase so it's hard for me to justify going with another phone. I'm not unhappy with my 4 either really.

But there ya go I'm an "iPerson" out of convenience mostly

"Apple"

[commission3r]

just so we're clear i don't like or dislike apple as a brand and i don't have anything apple nor do i have any experience in anything apple (except red or green) but to drool, i got better hardware and service, its called WOMAN but then maybe you prefer MAN

"Apple is excellent. You can buy AppleCare+......"

i may be wrong and out of this world for saying this, i do live on an island (uk).
manufacturers generally offer some kind of warranty with their products for certain lengths of time. seems to me as a customer you will pay for something that is already provided. maybe you could look at the terms and condition or the small print.

"Where would I go if my Asus Transformer tablet was discovered to be defective after the return period? The retailer may or may not take it back, and Asus would have me setting up an RMA over the phone or online, ship it back to them for inspection, then wait for a replacement. I can walk in an Apple store with one iPad and walk out with a replacement in under half an hour"

if you had stopped and considered what if apple didn't have a retail unit then you might have considered how you might have gone about returning your 3 defective pads

"At least Apple employs Americans. No accents, no attitudes, no bullshit"

american english is a accent and maybe your new love is much like you, a racist bastard child

"People need to raise their standards, cause its low standards that make it easy for companies to get away with the walking all over us"

this is how you got suckered. many brands use the same tactics as apple you'd (already are in your case) be a fool to fall for it. they threw some glitter in your eyes and voila. apple became the pimp and you became their whore. 3 times no less.

[m1dg3t]

I never met anyone who waz happy to receive a defective product 3 times and praise the company for their level of "service"

Apple customers.

Use of the term "genius" to describe their techs is demeaning to the people in the world who ACTUALY are fucking geniuses. Just another example of their play on words to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside....

Posted from my Galaxy s2

[micropage7]

actually im not apple fan, for product i have to say they offer more than other, thats is prestige
your friends would say wow when you bring apple stuff and maybe thats the most selling point when you choose apple
i try to separate their product and their attitude, they make good stuff? yes, they have "bad attitude"? yes.

[Aquinus]

You know that you can just walk into an Apple store and wait for a Genius, but you have to do exactly that... wait. If you make an appointment there is no waiting. I work for an institution that is a Apple shop, we have two PC workstations, one of which I use for development and another for testing stuff on Windows. For all of the issues that our laptops have had, Apple has been more than happy to fix our machines for us. I also might note that very few of our laptops have experience issues at all (2 out of 40 laptops,) which isn't bad at all.

So all in all, I like Apple for the products that they release and the ease of use of all of their devices. I don't however like the price associated with their hardware, but when you're not personally buying them, it's a much different world.

I also might add that using OpenDirectory with OS X has worked great and I would take OS X Server over a Windows Server with Active Directory any day.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by m1dg3t

I never met anyone who waz happy to receive a defective product 3 times and praise the company for their level of "service"

Apple customers.

Use of the term "genius" to describe their techs is demeaning to the people in the world who ACTUALY are fucking geniuses. Just another example of their play on words to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside....

Posted from my Galaxy s2

They could be asshats about it, get tired of him. The last issue a lot of people would probably not even notice, and they could draw the line there. But they just keep giving him replacements. What it does say is a) Kantastic is very VERY unlucky, or b) something is off with Apples QA. Maybe a bit of both, i don't know how many people complain about the new iPads so I can't really say anything about that.