Why I'm now an Apple fan...

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

No, my point is "perfection" doesn't exist (I demonstrated with ruggedized products which Apple offers none of). There's a lot of devices out there that do things MacBooks can't. The fact Apple has such a limited selection of products means very few people find exactly what they are looking for.

I think within the bounds of figurative speech, you are allowed to call things which are perfect to you as "perfection" but might not necessarily be flawless.

I actually like Apple's limited product selection, the only obvious thing they are missing from others is the lack of the cheapest rung. Everything starts a step or two up the luxury chain, in order to sustain a higher profit margin. (luxury in the sense commanding price premium, not the quality of the product)

[FordGT90Concept]

They lack premium products like Intel Extreme Edition powered systems with quad-SLI/Crossfire and no option for workstation cards like Quadro and Fire (have to buy it from the Apple Store separately and pay a $500 premium over market value). Not to mention the very limited selection (they offer no Fire cards from AMD and if the Quadro 4000 isn't enough, tough shit). They have above average products at premium prices.

Not to mention, they lag behind in product refresh cycles so, for example, their Mac Pro still has 3 year old graphics cards as the only option (HD 5870).

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

They lack premium products like Intel Extreme Edition powered systems with quad-SLI/Crossfire and no option for workstation cards like Quadro and Fire (have to buy it from the Apple Store separately and pay a $500 premium over market value). Not to mention the very limited selection (they offer no Fire cards from AMD and if the Quadro 4000 isn't enough, tough shit). They have above average products at premium prices.

Not to mention, they lag behind in product refresh cycles so, for example, their Mac Pro still has 3 year old graphics cards as the only option (HD 5870).

No they don't have the highest rung either. I wouldn't necessary call them having average products at premium prices, quite a few of their products are not too much more expensive compared to similar products of competitors. Also, their R&D and marketing somehow managed almost singlehandedly shape the direction consumer tech is heading for the past few years, I am still waiting for another company to wrest that from them.

Their desktop is more or less abandoned in favour of laptops and other smaller stuff, I am not surprised you can't get any good stuff from that.

[FordGT90Concept]

No tech company gets media coverage like Apple does. That's the media's fault for being biased, not Apple's. I almost blew a fuse when Howard Kurtz (media critic, host of Reliable Sources) was going all goo goo gaa gaa over the iPad. Hello!?! Tablets aren't new!!!

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

No tech company gets media coverage like Apple does. That's the media's fault for being biased, not Apple's. I almost blew a fuse when Howard Kurtz (media critic, host of Reliable Sources) was going all goo goo gaa gaa over iPad.

Unfortunate fact of life, we will have to live with that until someone comes in with a better marketing team and a host of useless but cool products.

[FordGT90Concept]

I'd say Intel and IBM have good marketing teams but they don't pick sides and they sell useful products to many demographics.

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I'd say Intel and IBM have good marketing teams but they don't pick sides and they sell useful products to many demographics.

"Boring companies making boring stuff", they need to shake that image off and produce desirable goods. Ultrabook is a good example, but it came after MBA, not before. Watson is good too, but at the moment we cannot mass produce it for the sheeple.

[FordGT90Concept]

Intel has a lot of memorable advertising (e.g. Pentium 4 and USB engineer). The problem is, they don't sell to end users like Apple does, they sell to OEMs. IBM mostly targets corporations. IBM sold the parts of their business that dealt with end users directly (namely, the IBM-PC business to Lenovo) but they're still a household name because of their marketing.


The processor used in MBA was intended for a small form factor Centrino. Intel sped up development for Apple's MBA: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2422

Ultrabook was born out of Intel's desire to advance laptop design among OEMs much like how ATX advanced desktop design among OEMs.

[purecain]

the amount of contradiction here astounds me...

yes apple products cost more because they start at a higher price, (you dont say...lol)

then in the next breath say... apple products dont offer hardware as highend as competitors... (but they cost more...what????)

just think about it...

its like youve memorised the apple manual... like an employee

apple cost more and offer less...£3,000 for a mac(which has 3yr old hardware)

their one and only innovation the ipad was an old idea... fact

seems like apple marketing really gets its claws in to the minds of some...unbelievable...

really entertaining thread though...

a price performance chart would be great about now...

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by purecain

the amount of contradiction here astounds me...

yes apple products cost more because they start at a higher price, (you dont say...lol)

then in the next breath say... apple products dont offer hardware as highend as competitors... (but they cost more...what????)

You can find bargain basement build quality stuff from Dell, HP and all other manufacturers (and most of them suffer from problems of one sort or another, most commonly cooling), but you don't find bargain basement stuff from some other manufacturers, prime examples being Apple and Clevo. My next part is also true: Apple does not offer the top end tech either. So why are you so confused?

Side note: Most manufacturers also make good quality stuff, like X1 Carbon mentioned. However, those are pricey, coming close to the price of Macs depending on locality and availability.

[FordGT90Concept]

Look at the highest offerings from Falcon Northwest, Alienware, and all the custom outfits. They can go for $4000 easily. A Mac Pro can sell for the same price but, because of their design decisions (mainly two-way processor), they offer substantially less performance. The same goes for laptop offerings. There's $3000+ laptops out there that slap the most expensive MacBook Pros silly in the performance department. Then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have $5000 laptops that don't have the best performance in the world but they'd survive falling off the roof of a three story building--Apple has nothing like that.


As I said, Apple offers above average products at premium price. A prime example is the Quadro 4000. It retails for $800 but Apple Store sells it for $1200. The Quadro 4000 is above average (GeForces and Radeons being average) but the price is premium.

Likewise, they sell good IPS panels in most of their devices which is above average (most use TFT LCD TN panels) but you pay for an Apple premium on top of the hardware differences.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Look at the highest offerings from Falcon Northwest, Alienware, and all the custom outfits. They can go for $4000 easily. A Mac Pro can sell for the same price but, because of their design decisions (mainly two-way processor), they offer substantially less performance. The same goes for laptop offerings. There's $3000+ laptops out there that slap the most expensive MacBook Pros silly in the performance department. Then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have $5000 laptops that don't have the best performance in the world but they'd survive falling off the roof of a three story building--Apple has nothing like that.

Wait, Apple have less performance because of a dual CPU setup? How? Anyway Mac Pros should probably be measured against workstations from HP and Dell and the like, not "custom" gaming machines. Right now they're kinda old fashioned yes, but they're bound for an update later this year (or early 2013 iirc, too long between updates anyway).

And I don't get the other bit. I'm not sure how it's a problem Apple don't have those things.

And yes, they do want a lot of money for upgrades, but that is nothing new. :P

[FordGT90Concept]

I was mostly talking about price/performance. Anyway, I was mistaken. On Mac Pro tech specs they only list two options for processors. In their configuration options, they offer dual X5675 which no single processor can tackle (except Mangy Cores XD). Because of that, yes, they need to be compared to two-way workstations.

Apple only sells 5 models of computers: MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro. Virtually every manufacturer in the industry sells at least 5 models of laptops alone. I see that as a problem because they make customers fit their appliances instead of appliances to fit their customers.

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by Frick

Anyway Mac Pros should probably be measured against workstations from HP and Dell

I thought everyone (Apple fanboys included) have concluded that Mac Pros are absolutely shit in terms of everything from price/perf to innards?

In the same vein comparing the best Apple product (Ultrabooks) against its competitors are not exactly fair either, but that leaves us with precious few others to compare with: rMBP (retina display hurpdurp lolunique), MBP (but you get MBP for retina display lolol), iMac (but its AIO!). Really hard to compare the products, and its not helped that Apple users treat Apple products more like a religion/cult/lifestyle rather than a tool. I don't really think you can ask a Muslim to buy a Bible because its cheaper.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

I thought everyone (Apple fanboys included) have concluded that Mac Pros are absolutely shit in terms of everything from price/perf to innards?

What? If anything the Mac Pros are decent value, compared to workstations. here's a pretty good article/review from Ars on the subject. Workstations are far different from home PC's, and shouldn't be compared to them. Well they can sometimes, it depends on the situation, but often they shouldn't. All workstations are the same really, from that perspective.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

iMac (but its AIO!)

Pretty much every manufacturer has an all-in-one product these days but few (any?) have an IPS panel.

[purecain]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

I thought everyone (Apple fanboys included) have concluded that Mac Pros are absolutely shit in terms of everything from price/perf to innards?

I don't really think you can ask a Muslim to buy a Bible because its cheaper.

apple marketing have managed to create that situation. and i have to take my hat off to them...

they are definatly on to something with their stratagy...

theyve created a cult following...

thats not an easy thing to do... infact for a company its amazing...

still glad i dont follow it...

[FordGT90Concept]

They've had a cult following since the 1980s. Almost three decades later and they're still sending a similar message as they did back then (PCs being drones, their products being a chick with a hammer):

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

They've had a cult following since the 1980s. Almost three decades later and they're still sending a similar message as they did back then (PCs being drones, their products being a chick with a hammer):

I'd hit it.....her not the TV.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

They've had a cult following since the 1980s. Almost three decades later and they're still sending a similar message as they did back then (PCs being drones, their products being a chick with a hammer):

Yeah, they did fullfill every companys dream.

[TheMailMan78]

The only thing that can explain the path of this thread is this video.....

Starts off normal enough...then TPU shines!

[Frick]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

The only thing that can explain the path of this thread is this video.....

Starts off normal enough...then TPU shines!

I think the last page has been pretty nice.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by Frick

I think the last page has been pretty nice.

Its just run of the mill Apple hate. They hate it to hate it. No real valid reasons. Just like Windows 8. Hate to be like the rest of the sheep. Thread starts off normal enough with someone saying something nice about Apple and 10 million trolls activate to invalidate his humble claim with no real evidence but sheeple hate.

[johnspack]

Yeah, I'm slightly anti-apple, but even I think this thread has gone on long enough. Apple has a prominent position in the computer world, and I doubt they will be removed. Probably because they have had innovative products, and made a name for themselves. I'll never buy one, but that doesn't mean I don't have respect for them and what they've done. Got to look at both covers of the book.....

[Frick]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Its just run of the mill Apple hate. They hate it to hate it. No real valid reasons. Just like Windows 8. Hate to be like the rest of the sheep. Thread starts off normal enough with someone saying something nice about Apple and 10 million trolls activate to invalidate his humble claim with no real evidence but sheeple hate.

I kinda disagree. We're off topic, but we're not radical. The posts are not as flamable as you'd expect and right now it's surprisingly civil. It almost feels like a discussion and not a game of "Most Stubborn Poster".