Why I'm now an Apple fan...

[entropy13]

The heretics can only resort to parodies to bash the Sacred Company. All hail the Holy Apple!

[INSTG8R]

LoL I watched that one yesterday actually. I mean I like my iPhone alot but hold no genuine brand loyalty at all.

[NHKS]

"fan" is not the word one would choose to associate with today's successful corporations/'brands' when they realize things like this keep happening in the background..
Samsung concedes some abuse in factories
Students say they are forced to work on new iPhone 5

these valued 'brands' make great products no doubt but at what cost?

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by NHKS

these valued 'brands' make great products no doubt but at what cost?

£480 for SGS III and £499 for iPhone 4S. A bit pricey but I am sure a lot of people can afford, especially if they buy the phone with a contract.

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

£480 for SGS III and £499 for iPhone 4S. A bit pricey but I am sure a lot of people can afford, especially if they buy the phone with a contract.

There really isn't alot between them is there price wise? Other than the S III is brand new

Never looked to be honest I got offered a cheaper plan not that long ago so I am "locked in" until next spring I figure. So by then iPhone 5 "hoopla" should have well died down, can get them cheaper on a new plan if I decide to "stay the course" Plenty of time for somebody to woo me away from my "walled garden" I have obliviously just accepted

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by INSTG8R

There really isn't alot between them is there price wise? Other than the S III is brand new

Never looked to be honest I got offered a cheaper plan not that long ago so I am "locked in" until next spring I figure. So by then iPhone 5 "hoopla" should have well died down, can get them cheaper on a new plan if I decide to "stay the course" Plenty of time for somebody to woo me away from my "walled garden" I have obliviously just accepted

Samsung/Android/antiApple will tell you that SGSIII has a faster processor, blablabla etcetcetc. iPhone 4S user will tell you that iOS is better blablabla etcetcetc. Both of them have their points, so at the end of the day you pick which one you like better.

Are you nationalist enough to buy the iPhone 4S (hurrdurr meriken company) or do you support the hallowing out of US's industry by buying SGSIII? Please don't reply to this question, its not going to be pretty.

[horik]

lol at this,is the ultimate sue(if true):http://gizmodo.com/copyright/

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Samsung/Android/antiApple will tell you that SGSIII has a faster processor, blablabla etcetcetc. iPhone 4S user will tell you that iOS is better blablabla etcetcetc. Both of them have their points, so at the end of the day you pick which one you like better.

Are you nationalist enough to buy the iPhone 4S (hurrdurr meriken company) or do you support the hallowing out of US's industry by buying SGSIII? Please don't reply to this question, its not going to be pretty.

Nope skipping the 4S same as skipped the 3GS. In the big picture to me it's just a "go faster stripe" I don't have any reason to say that I need my phone to do anything faster than it already does.

Here is an honest Android question(not gotten near it other than farting about with a friends phone etc) How is easy is it to "transfer" to a new phone?
I mean I "regularly" synch my phones with iTunes on my laptop to keep it backed up(not as much lately just can't be arsed) NEVER checked any special setting or options just plugged it in and Synched. Normally I do if there is an App update.

But when I switched from my 3G to my 4 I just plugged it into iTunes, It asked me something to the effect "Is this a new phone?" Off it went. The new 4 was EXACTLY as I had left my 3G didn't have to look for or move anything. Perfectly cloned and ready to use.

Where Does Android weigh in with that?

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I only move to undeniable facts.

Imma go ahead and say "ok".

[NHKS]

iPhone 5 is out, but so are the pranks!..



PS: this has nothing to do with apple hate, just for laughs

[newlife]

The only thing i have to say about apple is what they did to samsung, which shows how evil apple you, dont forget apple lost the court cases at a huge cost to samsung and they were made to say sorry to samsung for it and basicly promote there product

[lilhasselhoffer]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Are you nationalist enough to buy the iPhone 4S (hurrdurr meriken company) or do you support the hallowing out of US's industry by buying SGSIII? Please don't reply to this question, its not going to be pretty.

WTF?

I understand hate for the US. Our international policies were and are written by morons that couldn't identify European countries if given a globe (to say nothing of South America or Asia). I know that the worst elements of our populous are what people around the world see. Just for a moment, put this into perspective. Europe has everything from cockney to zealots, just like the US. Assuming that there is some innate superiority is foolish. Ask a German, and they say the French are wine loving pussies. The British say the same, and add that Germans are anal engineers who can never make a decision. The french think everyone outside France is an unrefined animal unfit to be in their presence (all of this from personal experience).

Coming back around to the original topic; what are you trying to get at. Neither of these things is produced in the US. Apple designs might be focused in the US, with Samsung being a more global player. The unpleasant reality is that neither produces the product anywhere but China (though some parts come from either Japan or Taiwan as quality requires).


So no, you don't support the US or rebuke the US by choosing a phone. You kill a Chinese worker piece-meal by buying a phone. If you think anything else then you're missing the manufacturing part of production, and only focusing on development.

[RejZoR]

Originally Posted by NHKS

iPhone 5 is out, but so are the pranks!..



PS: this has nothing to do with apple hate, just for laughs

How fuckin thick do you have to be, to say one works better, is faster, thinner and lighter WHILE YOU'RE HOLDING THE SAME ONE IN THE OTHER HAND.

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by RejZoR

How fuckin thick do you have to be, to say one works better, is faster, thinner and lighter WHILE YOU'RE HOLDING THE SAME ONE IN THE OTHER HAND.

Yep was pretty shocking...

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by lilhasselhoffer

Coming back around to the original topic; what are you trying to get at. Neither of these things is produced in the US. Apple designs might be focused in the US, with Samsung being a more global player. The unpleasant reality is that neither produces the product anywhere but China (though some parts come from either Japan or Taiwan as quality requires).

So no, you don't support the US or rebuke the US by choosing a phone. You kill a Chinese worker piece-meal by buying a phone. If you think anything else then you're missing the manufacturing part of production, and only focusing on development.

And so you replied

I don't have any problem with US in general, but there are some Americans who are diehard nationalists and will not touch Android, targets of this question. This is not some "omg Europe is so much better than America" etc. Sorry if you took offence.

The thing is, production is not a high profit industry anymore, unless you are a specialist (something US retains). Shove the low margin business overseas, and keep the high margin ones inshore (development). You simply cannot afford to keep the production inshore unless someone is subsidising the production, and at the moment no one is willing to do that.

[FordGT90Concept]

"Low margin?" Because of the fact they get it made for so cheap, they can make a killing selling it in other countries. Profit margins are huge for Apple, unbelievably huge. Just look at the iPhone 5. They're selling microUSB adapters virtually everyone is going to want in the USA for $10 each. They probably cost less than $1 to manufacture. Also look at the $29 adapters to allow the new iPhone 5 to work with older devices. That probably costs less than $3 to manufacturer so their profit margin is again about 10x. The iPhone itself costs about $200 to manufacturer. They sell for north of $600 uncontracted where competing products are about $200 less retail with substantially better hardware.

With those kinds of profit margins, they could easily afford to manufacturer their devices in the USA. But they don't. Being a "greedy" corporation like the rest of them, they manufacturer as cheap as they can to get the largest profit margins possible.

I don't blame Apple for that because they're doing what all international corporations in the 21st century do. I do blame consumers for not doing research before shelling out mega bucks for over-priced products. Apple, like every other corporation, will keep doing it so long as they can get away with it.

[Aquinus]

I got an iPhone because work was going to pay a large portion of my monthly bill. Otherwise I would have gotten a HTC Incredible 2. I go where money takes me. Both the iPhone and Android products are good. I just chose the one that was going to save me money. All the hate in this thread is why people don't get along. It's a phone ffs, choose want you want. If you don't like Apple, fine. Get a droid or something. It doesn't mean Apple is any worse than other companies that want to corner the market.

I'm happy to say that I'm happy with my 4S and the price I pay for it.

[lilhasselhoffer]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

The thing is, production is not a high profit industry anymore, unless you are a specialist (something US retains). Shove the low margin business overseas, and keep the high margin ones inshore (development). You simply cannot afford to keep the production inshore unless someone is subsidising the production, and at the moment no one is willing to do that.

I don't believe you've got the same grasp on the issue here, so can you help me walk through the logic you're using. As I can't understand your logic, will you point out where our understandings differ?



Manufacturing is where both Samsung and Apple make their money initially, but Apple doesn't stop there. They take in materials and components, create a finished good, and sell it to the providers at a specific margin. Part of their costs are software and hardware development. So you take in $240 worth of parts per phone. You contract 300,000 phone sales world-wide. You spend $900,000 on developing the software, and $1,800,000 on developing the phone. The break even price of the phone (Samsung to phone company) is therefore labor+$249. Assuming that labor is higher (manufactured anywhere but China), you must increase the selling price. Companies don't take a financial loss, because if they do they cease to exist.

Now Apple and Samsung differ vastly on the development side. Apple enjoys touting that they are 100% US based. They also sell vastly more units, due to brand recognition. For a moment, let's say that for every Samsung piece of hardware sold there are two pieces of Apple hardware. Does the increased cost of US development hurt Apple? NO. They can spend twice as much on development. Rather than starting with a barebones OS and adding features (android), they can develop everything from the ground up. Apple can implement a walled garden. Every piece of software sales suddenly becomes a sale for Apple. Samsung, meanwhile, doesn't earn a penny in software sales because they use an open source platform.

We've seen that Apple and Samsung are fundamentally the same on the manufacturing side. Development is the only place where they differ. Apple is very closed, so they can control everything post sale. They tout a better experience, because they can control everything. Samsung touts better specifications. They get to do everything, but things break far more often.


The real question is how consumers respond, and herein lies the problem. Both of these devices a subsidized by the service providers. Without the 66% or higher subsidies from retail price people would purchase differently. A clean interface, with functionality nerfed, is acceptable at the $200 price point. You get something with less features that a PC, but a similar experience and speed for less cost. Samsung tries to give the PC speed and features, but also shares the PC instability. The uninformed consumer only sees a $200 price tag, and makes the assumption that some errors aren't acceptable at such a low price point. They would weigh the decision differently if the full $600 retail price were on display.


In the background, Samsung has moved on to developing the next phone model. Apple has begun to rest on their laurels, because their lock on software sales will bouy the company for months, before they need to crank up development efforts on the next revision.



In short, you buy a business model. Either rich features that are sometimes problematic, or locked down but generally more stable. Apple has done an excellent job of making their brand known, which has allowed them to compete differently. Samsung competes in the more traditional manner of new features and lower prices. "Stupid American cultural supremacists," while existing, aren't the driving force. The people hiding the true costs and selling experience/branding over capability are what makes Apple work.


While I hate Apple, but they deserve acknowledgement for making this crap acceptable. At no other point in my memory could a less featured product be sold at the same price, and outstrip competitor sales so totally as the iPhone does. -golf clap-

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

It doesn't mean Apple is any worse than other companies that want to corner the market.

Did you not read what I typed? Apple made a net profit of $8.2 billion in 2009, $14.0 billion in 2010, and $25.9 billion in 2011. As of Q2, 2012, Apple had $110.2 billion cash on hand. What do they do with it? Buy back shares and issue dividends to investors, also known as "make Wall Street happy."

The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales. What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised. Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?" Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by RejZoR

How fuckin thick do you have to be, to say one works better, is faster, thinner and lighter WHILE YOU'RE HOLDING THE SAME ONE IN THE OTHER HAND.

Shows how strong the pacebo effect can be and/or how strong the stupidity in America is.

[HTC]

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

Shows how strong the placebo effect can be and/or how strong the stupidity in America is.

That's pretty much what Apple counts on.

[Chevalr1c]

Originally Posted by lilhasselhoffer

Samsung, meanwhile, doesn't earn a penny in software sales because they use an open source platform.

And why is that? The term "open source" purely points to a development model. It does not say anything about pricing.

Originally Posted by lilhasselhoffer

In short, you buy a business model. Either rich features that are sometimes problematic, or locked down but generally more stable.

You bring these two as antitheses, but are they? How fast new features get introduced is not related to how "locked down" a product is, IMHO. Stability is also set apart from the business model (after all, stability is linked to programming skills and how well the hardware works).

Originally Posted by lilhasselhoffer

While I hate Apple, but they deserve acknowledgement for making this crap acceptable. At no other point in my memory could a less featured product be sold at the same price, and outstrip competitor sales so totally as the iPhone does. -golf clap-

With that, I can agree.

[Kreij]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales. What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised. Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?" Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.

What you just described is the epitome of capitalism and free market economy.

[[XC] Oj101]

I read your first post, nothing more. You went through FOUR iPads to get ONE working unit. You had a two hour wait? I think you made a mistake in the thread title, are you SURE you didn't mean to call it "Why I'm not an Apple fan..."? I mean the W and T on a keyboard are three keys apart, but you showed a lack of intelligence by not insisting on a refund half way through your fiasco so I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed up the keys (<-- that smilie means my last sentence was a joke)

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

I don't have any problem with US in general, but there are some Americans who are diehard nationalists and will not touch Android, targets of this question.

You might be correct, but I think you're off base. Apple's "fanatic" customer base doesn't seem very nationalistic to me. Besides, what is wrong with nationalism? Have you no pride in where you live?