Game Content, The Good, Bad and Ugly.

[Benetanegia]

Originally Posted by BumbleBee

a big sword feels like a stick that has 2 animations. it doesn't feel good when you make contact. you wave it several times at enemy legs until they ragdoll. the critical hits are automatic and can be annoying when you just want to trek through a dungeon. the same battle music. the same voice actor. the follower system wasn't done well so you end up not using them because they get in your way.

the combat in Fallout is different because your dealing with mostly projectile weapons and you have to manually trigger VATS.

if some characters died in Mass Effect they are not even in Mass Effect 2 or 3. we're talking about decisions people made 5 years ago. in Mass Effect 2 your Shepard can die and if you try to import that save in Mass Effect 3 you have to start a new character.

when you become a Spectre in Mass Effect and Captain Anderson is like you should check out these three planets. if you don't rescue Liara first she has extra dialog when you meet her. she says something like "hello? are you a hallucination? what took you so long" the game even recognizes that lol

THAT'S AWESOME.

in Skyrim it's like yeah, yeah the world can wait.

Gimmick.

[INSTG8R]

Originally Posted by Benetanegia

Gimmick.

But isn't that the underlying theme to any game? The "gimmick", The suspension of disbelief, The Hook. We play games as a diversion and for entertainment. They all have to have a "gimmick" to get us interested/want to buy/play.

Your "gimmick" is OBVIOUSLY much different than Bumblebee and I's where ME's "gimmick" is what makes us want to play/enjoy it Hey I have put plenty of hours into Skyrim too, but ME just grabs me in a way that Skyrim just can't.

[Drone]

Originally Posted by Benetanegia

HL2, Skyrim and a bunch of others don't feed you the story as if it was a movie, they let you be part of it and learn about the lore and story like you would in real life, by interacting with the world.

AFAIK hl2 didn't have any strong story behind it. And I couldn't say that it was full of interaction either. You just shoot the things in the face and that's it. Didn't play skyrim so can't tell...

Game where you walk around and learn many things about the world is Deus Ex: The Conspiracy. This game doesn't have any cutscenes at all (only one when game starts and one cutscene of three - depends on your choice - when game ends). You read newspapers, books, you hack into computers, you can eavesdrop on conversations and so on. This game is very interactive, long and has a great replay value because you can make choices.

Another good example is Metroid. You can scan whatever you see and you get a lot of information. And this game is full of exploration.

[james888]

I never did understand why hl2 was so popular. It was a decent game but I didn't get into it.

[Kreij]

Different games (their style, gameplay, etc.) will always appeal to different people. That's just a given as we are all different.

Another facter, though, is the differing of appeal "over time". What may have appeal greatly to a gamer at any given point in time will most likely change as they develop a taste for something different. This can occur over a period of years, or in just a few days/weeks depending on the person and how much they enjoy and play a game in any given genre.

For instance, I put a couple hundred hours into Skyrim and then stopped. I was not bored with the game (as there is still a ton of content I've not seen) but grew tired of the same gameplay. I moved on to Diablo III and the same thing happened. I'm now playing EvE and I'm sure it will happen again.
I find all of these games excellent, but you can only do something for so long before you say, "GAH ... I want something different."

Except for tower defense games. I love tower defense games and never grow tired of them.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by INSTG8R

I have to say because you haven't played any further than the first. You would be VERY surprised at how many of those "side quests" and the characters you met you thought were insignificant suddenly became important again in 3. As I said before the amount of people I came across in ME3 that even I thought were insignificant reappeared because I saved/helped them. Some I had to think hard about who they were(they certainly remembered me for what I had done) The Rachni example I gave originally is still relevant there. Because I "saved" her WAY back in the 1st she played a significant role in my ME3 world. Meet anybody from Morrowmind in Skyrim?

So the game gets good in the THIRD installation? No thanks.

Originally Posted by Benetanegia

Let's see if I can make my point clear. I love stories, good stories as much as audiophiles love listening to music. So I read a lot of books.

Saying that X game has good story, characters, etc is like claiming you like music and you listen it on Youtube. Simply no. With Mass Effect and any other game for that matter, story is just a half-baked rehash or just plain rip-off of a better story, probably written 30+ years ago. Just go read it!

To me the only thing that makes a game story good (more like pasable) is the way it's fed to me. ME does it as if it was a movie, a bad movie and movies themselves are already bad enough.

HL2, Skyrim and a bunch of others don't feed you the story as if it was a movie, they let you be part of it and learn about the lore and story like you would in real life, by interacting with the world.

What kind of games are you playing if you say there are no games with good story and characters? Again, go play The Longest Journey. Then play Deus Ex, and then play Thief 2 (which is the best in the series imo).

And the problem with Skyrim is that the story isn't interesting, and the characters are very uninteresting as well. I'm not sure how you can say ME is a half baked rehash and then take Skyrim as a good example. HL2 I actually agree on, even if it you have no room for anything. It's ironical a head on FPS has one of the best character developments in gaming.'

Originally Posted by Drone

AFAIK hl2 didn't have any strong story behind it. And I couldn't say that it was full of interaction either. You just shoot the things in the face and that's it. Didn't play skyrim so can't tell...

Which is why it's so strange. HL2 is full of life compared to most things, even if it has no interaction.

[INSTG8R]

Well No Frick I wouldn't say that ME3 is the "best" one but everything you did in the first 2(If you had your save)had some significant consequences and events in ME3.

I mean if you just started a fresh game in ME3 entire story arcs would just not be there. It definitely reminded you of your actions from the previous and the outcome of them. They weren't just "Go here, Do this" events when if you happened to save someones life in that situation they may have seemed insignificant then but you come across them in ME3 and they offer you help/ bonus's and even another arc to the story.

[Drone]

Originally Posted by Frick

HL2 is full of life compared to most things, even if it has no interaction.

I don't see it. The only character there who is full of life and not boring is Alyx, at least she brought some difference. Other than that I didn't find anything particularly memorable there. HL1 at least got some big bosses, Xen and big guns.

[Benetanegia]

And the problem with Skyrim is that the story isn't interesting, and the characters are very uninteresting as well. I'm not sure how you can say ME is a half baked rehash and then take Skyrim as a good example.

Because I didn't say Skyrim has any good story, just that the way it's "told" is better. LIke I said no game has good story, much less innovative, the difference is in the way the game immerses you in the story, in which HL2 excels IMO. Other than that HL2 is still the typical alien invasion story, nothing new to it either. And ES games also immerse you in the story without giving you lectures about a world that you (the character) should already know. Whatever you need to know you'll learn it just by looking at your surroundings, reading the eventual book, talking to anyone on the street...

ME relies on cutscenes and the encyclopedia to tell the story both of which destroy the immersion and makes it hard to believe and get involved. Plus nothing is new nor great as some are saying. Ashley is a copycat of Aeryn Sun from Farscape, Kaidan is Max Guevara from Dark Angel but in male (or any of the X5) and so on. But they don't go as deep as the characters they are coppying, so nothing interesting about them. Skyrim is not better, but it has no pretentions and the game is not about that anyway. ME is pretentious and those characters and stories are supposed to be the core of the game. Having to go through all of those personal stories, full of cliches that have been used to death, only so that you can get a mission is absolutely boring. So in my eyes it fails hard and can only attract people who have very little culture when it comes to stories (books, movies).

Originally Posted by Frick

What kind of games are you playing if you say there are no games with good story and characters? Again, go play The Longest Journey. Then play Deus Ex, and then play Thief 2 (which is the best in the series imo).

Played already. The longest Journey was very good tbh, but that was so long ago... And the other is pretty much the same. And they were not so good, again a rehash of a better story. It's like movie remakes, some people go all crazy with some of them, saying how good they are, but people who have seen the original know how much better the original was.

[Kwod]

Originally Posted by Frick

And the problem with Skyrim is that the story isn't interesting, and the characters are very uninteresting as well. .

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Skyrim is one of the best games ever made despite that.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Kwod

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Skyrim is one of the best games ever made despite that.

Well, no imo, but I shouldn't get started on that again. See my earlier posts if you want.

Anyway, I have high hopes for The Cave and Wasteland 2, regarding content.

[Kwod]

Originally Posted by Frick

This is where Bethsoft falls short. The storyline in Skyrim (and Fallout 3 for that matter) is just a sideproduct, and it's not made that good. The dialouge (which carry the storyline) is generally speaking pretty stupid. Yes the ES universe has a ton of interesting stuff, but it's all relegated to the background, and hunting butterflies for wings and trying to climb mountains with a horse while turtles snap at your feet is the foreground. And that bugs me. In a game where you can do "anything", the specifics and fine detail is pushed away. But credit where it's due, Skyrim would've been a better game if they included a hardcore mode, you know when you have to eat and sleep etc. Now it's just a bunch of stuff to do but you don't gain anything by doing it, except levels, but when there's nothing to do other than randomly explore and fight of wolfs that keep attacking you (and the occasional dragon fight) it gets rather pointless. Yes you can shout, and the shouts are pretty cool, but to what end? The world is so open it feels cramped and pointless. There's no effort to anything, except grinding (which shouldn't exist in a SP game and anyway it's not a real effort), it's an empty shell. You're pretty much a God, and that is not a good way to do these kinds of games.

You want a hardcore mode to increase the grind and make it even more apparent that you're ordinary?

I played FO3 and NV before Skyrim, but never played an ES before, and a few things that worried me about Skyrim was the combat and the difficulty, and for me, combat is very good....as for difficulty, not as good, but it took me 40-45hrs before I felt invincible, as such, I installed a difficulty enhancing mod from steam, and played it again.

I'm waiting on a big overhaul/game changing mod before I play again, but that'll mean 3 playthru's for me, and the last one might be the best.

As for story, it could certainly be better, but it wasn't utter crap, and these type of games seem more about adventure, exploration, leveling up and questing than a final punchline.

[Iceni]

Freespace 2.

The way you were spoon fed story and fluff from the very start. And then it escalates and escalates into an almighty crescendo. It's one of the few games where cut scenes were never skipped, and you sat and watched every video.

The voice acting was also pretty good for the most part, there are some heartfelt moments when the commander of the NTF Iceni starts telling you about how he feels about the whole war, sacrifices and the aims of his whole mission.

[BumbleBee]

/claps

[INSTG8R]

YAY Mordin!

I think Bumblebee this would be the one you were looking for

[BumbleBee]

the drugged volus set the bar tho

[INSTG8R]

Fear the Volus!

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by loloTHUNDAH

I totally agree with you on this one. Games nowadays are just made for the sake of making one and making money. I compare games to modern storybooks since to be honest do kids today pick up a storybook about princesses and same crap and read through them? they're more likely to grab a controller and mash away turning them to rotten spoiled brats.

If a game delivers an amazing story, with the right amount of content, that would be a great buy.

We call this an ever increasing lack of discipline.

[Benetanegia]

OMG I finally bought and started playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Ok. I can almost take back what I said about ME's method of delivering the story (emphasis on almost tho). It now probably sits in the mid-range of what I'd consider good story delivery. DX:HR now takes the place of the worst that I can remember. OMFG I just lost 20 minutes of my life watching a useless cutscene with no control over where to look, allowing me to view only +/-10 degrees. That's about the worst and immersion killing method I can think of. If you want to make a cutscene make a cutscene, but don't introduce a 20 min long scene where the player has absolutely no control over where to move and look at. It's like putting a candy in front of a baby's nose and never give it to him.

It's so much worse because I just finished playing Black-Mesa. A perfect example, versus the worst one.

I'm going to have dinner now, hoping to regain enough energy to go play the game again. I know the game is good, I just can't see me tolerating that shit for any longer, so I hope that the 20 mins on the "intro" are the only ones. The way it started in the room* really tricked me into believing I was about to have a great "intro scene" such as the ones in BM and Valve games. I really thought I would be able to roam those good looking laboratories exploring and learning about what's being done there, etc. Not a chance. Big dissapointment. I don't remember original Deus Ex being anything like this shit, but it's been so long that I don't remeber much.

*how I could do "what I wanted" despite options being so limited there, the chick waiting and calling me, I could see the laboratory down there...

[james888]

What makes a game good is a combination of game play, immersion(graphics), and plot. Game play is the necessary one, because without it you are practically watching a movie.
Good game play + good plot = good game
Good game play + good graphics = good game
Good game play + good plot + good graphics = Mind blowing good game.

An individuals definition of good may vary.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Kwod

You want a hardcore mode to increase the grind and make it even more apparent that you're ordinary?

The grinding wouldn't increase, but you would have to be a lot more careful when going out in the wild. Hardcore mode wouldn't increase difficulty as such, just add more elements to the game. What do you think grinding is? To me it's doing the same thing over and over again, and a hardcore mode wouldn't really affect that at all.

Originally Posted by Benetanegia

OMG I finally bought and started playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Ok. I can almost take back what I said about ME's method of delivering the story (emphasis on almost tho). It now probably sits in the mid-range of what I'd consider good story delivery. DX:HR now takes the place of the worst that I can remember. OMFG I just lost 20 minutes of my life watching a useless cutscene with no control over where to look, allowing me to view only +/-10 degrees. That's about the worst and immersion killing method I can think of. If you want to make a cutscene make a cutscene, but don't introduce a 20 min long scene where the player has absolutely no control over where to move and look at. It's like putting a candy in front of a baby's nose and never give it to him.

It's so much worse because I just finished playing Black-Mesa. A perfect example, versus the worst one.

I'm going to have dinner now, hoping to regain enough energy to go play the game again. I know the game is good, I just can't see me tolerating that shit for any longer, so I hope that the 20 mins on the "intro" are the only ones. The way it started in the room* really tricked me into believing I was about to have a great "intro scene" such as the ones in BM and Valve games. I really thought I would be able to roam those good looking laboratories exploring and learning about what's being done there, etc. Not a chance. Big dissapointment. I don't remember original Deus Ex being anything like this shit, but it's been so long that I don't remeber much.

*how I could do "what I wanted" despite options being so limited there, the chick waiting and calling me, I could see the laboratory down there...

It was a while ago since I played it, but I don't remember it being that bad. And an intro is an intro, the game isn't "on" until after that.

[Benetanegia]

Originally Posted by Frick

It was a while ago since I played it, but I don't remember it being that bad. And an intro is an intro, the game isn't "on" until after that.

It IS that bad. The character moves like on rails and you can only vary your view a few degrees, plus I think if you stop "pushing" the mouse, the camera goes back to a certain position, so it feels like fighting to regain some control. It's garbage. And the worst thing is that there is absolutely no reason to do it that way. Like I said I hope it doesn't happen more or too often, because I'll through the digital download out the window and never look back.

[BumbleBee]

Deus Ex Human Revolution set a precedent.. the first and probably only game to ever outsource all it's boss fights to another developer haha

[Drone]

Originally Posted by Benetanegia

OMG I finally bought and started playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Ok. I can almost take back what I said about ME's method of delivering the story (emphasis on almost tho). It now probably sits in the mid-range of what I'd consider good story delivery. DX:HR now takes the place of the worst that I can remember. OMFG I just lost 20 minutes of my life watching a useless cutscene with no control over where to look, allowing me to view only +/-10 degrees.

It was full of useless dialogues which added zero sense/interest to the plot which wasn't so great in the first place. Many dialogues were built on circular references. I wonder who writes that stuff. I didn't like collision system it was glitched and enemy ai was ridiculously predictable (they are always busy with their pda/smartphones whatever, it looked unreal).
Game has some pros: hacking system is quite good and weapon upgrades are good too.

My verdict: Deus Ex: The Conspiracy beats the hell outta HR anytime.

[james888]

la la la no spoilers. I am on the first dues ex and loving it.