AMD FX "Vishera" Processor Pricing Revealed

[xenocide]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

I can live with that but then the Intel crowd should be muzzled they are extremely obnoxious in my opinion. Tom's Hardware analysis of trinity lays credence to the fact that Vishera CPU's should also have a 15% increase in IPC as AMD has claimed.

But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings. In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz). I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24. That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's. So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.

Sources:
Piledriver IPC
Comparison Benchmark

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by xenocide

But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings. In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz). I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24. That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's. So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.

Sources:
Piledriver IPC
Comparison Benchmark

MOAREE SPEEEED

[NeoXF]

I remember reading somewhere that Vishera scales way better with overclocking than Zambezi... AMD's claims on this where based on saying something like... a 200MHz overclock is a performance increase to Vishera what a 800MHz one is to Zambezi... but I don't have to mention how sketchy and interpretative that is.

Either way, anxious to see these new CPUs in action... from a first-grade source, that IMHO are hard to come by... and put some pressure on Intel (at least for us, on consumer level...).

[eidairaman1]

Heck about APUs, even the Stars Core based Llano was faster than Bulldozer. Then again what bulldozer moves fast anyway?

IPC comparison between BD Core and PD Core should be better when they are both clocked the same, whether in single thread or multi thread, and PD should be better than Stars Core.

I did notice that Comparisons have Core i at higher clocks than Core 2.

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by xenocide

But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings. In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz). I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24. That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's. So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.

Sources:
Piledriver IPC
Comparison Benchmark

I think you are lying. Tom's Hardware tested the Trinity APU NOT Vishera. The Trinity APU has NO L3 cache unlike Vishera. Vishera was NOT tested since a release version was NOT available. The release version of Vishera has a reworked algorithm for the L3 cache to give improved performance over bulldozer, better branch prediction, and several other tweaks SO you are spreading the usual disinformation. The old saying is" figures don't lie , but liars sure know how to figure. Get thee to a nunnery fan boy.

[nt300]

Originally Posted by NeoXF

I remember reading somewhere that Vishera scales way better with overclocking than Zambezi... AMD's claims on this where based on saying something like... a 200MHz overclock is a performance increase to Vishera what a 800MHz one is to Zambezi... but I don't have to mention how sketchy and interpretative that is.

Either way, anxious to see these new CPUs in action... from a first-grade source, that IMHO are hard to come by... and put some pressure on Intel (at least for us, on consumer level...).

The 4th lilne down in the comments.
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/06/a...amroller-core/
I don think the old 800MHz wuold equal the new 200Mhz, I can see maybe double that for the Piledrivers

[xenocide]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

I think you are lying. Tom's Hardware tested the Trinity APU NOT Vishera. The Trinity APU has NO L3 cache unlike Vishera. Vishera was NOT tested since a release version was NOT available. The release version of Vishera has a reworked algorithm for the L3 cache to give improved performance over bulldozer, better branch prediction, and several other tweaks SO you are spreading the usual disinformation. The old saying is" figures don't lie , but liars sure know how to figure. Get thee to a nunnery fan boy.

L3 Cache will definitely boost performance, but not by much. We're talking at best 5%. I was basing it off the sources you yourself cited. As for "reworked algorithm"s all I know is they claimed there was in issue with the latency of the L3 Cache, and that it had been addressed. The bottom line is the PD-based Trinity APU performed 15% better clock for clock than a BD-based CPU (which had L3 Cache), but still was 33% slower than an Intel CPU at a lower clock speed. There is absolutely no way the addition of L3 Cache will cover that gap.

I'm not spreading disinformation, I'm basing my statements off numbers. Notice all of my statements are cited, and have actual numbers attached to them--yours are largely vague things you had heard or been told by AMD's marketting team (which anyone here can tell you is pretty loose with the facts). I'm not an Intel or AMD Fan Boy, I want the best bang for my buck, and paying $280 for a CPU (FX-8150--although the cheaper 8120 was a much better buy) that barely edged out its predecessor (Phenom II X4/6) in anything but very heavily threaded tasks was not a great investment. I want Piledriver to be great, but realistically it probably won't be as massive an improvement as people want--just like Bulldozer wasn't the massive improvement over Phenom II people wanted.

[os2wiz]

I paid $239 for my FX-8150 3 weeks after launch at Amazon , Newegg had higher pricing with no availabilty so I went the Amazon route. I feel quite satisfied with my purchase and now I got good value. You overpaid and are not happy that i,s not AMD's fault it is yours for not shopping around. I am not a shootemup gamer, I dont like fascist, imperialist games. I only play strategy games and do real work on my computer. The FX is great for people who are not idiot gamers on roid rage and use the cpu for work intensive chores. That is where talented and skilled programmers thread their apps properly unlike the brain dead gaming programmers who have never heard of multithreading something that was in vogue in os/2 applicaftions
databases,games like Galactic Civilization which started as a multithreaded app on OS/2 Warp more than 16 years ago. It is obvious to me windoze programmers as a group play to the lowest common denominator and never up the the architecture of their apps to anywhere near where their potential lies. I really care less about those anti-working class fascist games and even less of the patriotic ass-kissers who play them.

I paid $239QUOTE=xenocide;2731807]L3 Cache will definitely boost performance, but not by much. We're talking at best 5%. I was basing it off the sources you yourself cited. As for "reworked algorithm"s all I know is they claimed there was in issue with the latency of the L3 Cache, and that it had been addressed. The bottom line is the PD-based Trinity APU performed 15% better clock for clock than a BD-based CPU (which had L3 Cache), but still was 33% slower than an Intel CPU at a lower clock speed. There is absolutely no way the addition of L3 Cache will cover that gap.

I'm not spreading disinformation, I'm basing my statements off numbers. Notice all of my statements are cited, and have actual numbers attached to them--yours are largely vague things you had heard or been told by AMD's marketting team (which anyone here can tell you is pretty loose with the facts). I'm not an Intel or AMD Fan Boy, I want the best bang for my buck, and paying $280 for a CPU (FX-8150--although the cheaper 8120 was a much better buy) that barely edged out its predecessor (Phenom II X4/6) in anything but very heavily threaded tasks was not a great investment. I want Piledriver to be great, but realistically it probably won't be as massive an improvement as people want--just like Bulldozer wasn't the massive improvement over Phenom II people wanted.[/QUOTE]

[HumanSmoke]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

I dont like fascist, imperialist games. I only play strategy games...I really care less about those anti-working class fascist games and even less of the patriotic ass-kissers who play them.

"Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture" -The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert Paxton

Originally Posted by os2wiz

talented and skilled programmers thread their apps properly... games like Galactic Civilization

"The goal of the game is to eventually dominate the galaxy. It is possible to achieve victory through war, cultural domination, diplomacy or by developing overwhelming advanced technology" - Galactic Civilizations

Yeah. Real different.

[Covert_Death]

lol burnnnnn

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by HumanSmoke

"Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture" -The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert Paxton

"The goal of the game is to eventually dominate the galaxy. It is possible to achieve victory through war, cultural domination, diplomacy or by developing overwhelming advanced technology" - Galactic Civilizations

Yeah. Real different.

Your right not real different, but certainly not as visceral as Call of Duty. I am anything but a pacifist, but I do not wish to desensitize myself to the horrors of war and especially imperialist wars which target civilian populations with drones and black ops. They are cutthroat murderers not heroes! They are willing mass murderers for Exxon-Mobil and the government which it and the banks control.
Capitalist culture is racist, xenophobic, sexist, and imperialist. There is no way around it. It's in the music, the movies, and in the lies our children are taught in school etc. Those games that are different are very few and far between. I do like Revolution Under Siege where you can fight to defend the workers' revolution in the Soviet Union during the 1919-1921 civil war , which in fact was an invasion by over a dozen European and American armies that ultimately failed to topple the first worker's state in the history of the world. But that games is one in a million.
Let's face it we live in the dictatorship of the capitalist class. The facade of elections is a joke. It's all been bought and paid for well before the candidates are chosen and even announce their campaigns. So in reality we can encourage and build worker's culture in a positive way , but in no way will we be able to supplant the dominant negative selfish culture until the capitalist states are smashed internationally. Then we can build a new culture of inclusiveness and egalitarianism.

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by xenocide

But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings. In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz). I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24. That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's. So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.

Sources:
Piledriver IPC
Comparison Benchmark

A lot of those performance blips are due to cacheing moisses do to poor branch prediction. That is supposed to be greatly improved in piledriver and I am eager to see those same tests after the release of the AMD FX-8350. I do thoink tyhreaded apps will see the Vishera product blow the 2600k out of the water and in gaming the results will be considerably tighter. In actual gaming the differences will NOT be noticeable. If one gives 45-50 fps and the other 60fps the human eye will not be able to detect it.

[nt300]

There is a reason why AMD is keeping Vishera very quiet before the launch. The Trinity version already outperforms the Bulldozer in clock for clock comparison by about 15%. Vishera should do a lot better clock for clock by about 20% to 30%.

Toms hardware guide previewed and compared the FX 8150 at 3.80 GHz and 8 cores versua the A10-5800K that only has 4 cores and no L3 and not all the mods done to the Vishera.
Vishera is looking like the best upgrade option for now, but I would like to see review s when they come out.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

A lot of those performance blips are due to cacheing moisses do to poor branch prediction. That is supposed to be greatly improved in piledriver and I am eager to see those same tests after the release of the AMD FX-8350. I do thoink tyhreaded apps will see the Vishera product blow the 2600k out of the water and in gaming the results will be considerably tighter. In actual gaming the differences will NOT be noticeable. If one gives 45-50 fps and the other 60fps the human eye will not be able to detect it.

If this happens I eat my hat. If I had a hat.

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by Frick

If this happens I eat my hat. If I had a hat.

Me too. I apart from the odd benchmark I doubt Piledriver is going to blow the 2600k out the water. At best slightly slower on average.

[nt300]

Originally Posted by Dent1

Me too. I apart from the odd benchmark I doubt Piledriver is going to blow the 2600k out the water. At best slightly slower on average.

Get ready to eat a nice big hat

[Frick]

Originally Posted by nt300

Get ready to eat a nice big hat

We can only hope.

[remixedcat]

Hmmmm I was looking to go with Intel for my next build but the prices are preventing me... this could be a possibility... I got 650 saved up so far for my new build.... I'm even more anxious now!

Should I get this or wait even longer???

[erocker]

Originally Posted by nt300

Get ready to eat a nice big hat

One thing I've learned from these Bulldozer, Piledriver, etc. threads is not to believe anything about upcoming CPU's from you or SuperXP.

Believe me though, I want AMD to succeed, but every bit of pertinent information tells me that nothing "great" will be coming from AMD in the CPU market for quite some time.

[TRWOV]

I don't think that AMD actually stated that Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in IPC, if I recall correctly.

They said Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in throughput but that doesn't necessarily mean +15% IPC. They could mean performance/watt or performance/dollar and their statement would be true:

FX-8150 $245 125w TDP 3.6Ghz = $68/Ghz 34w/Ghz
FX-8350 $250?? (I don't know if this is MSRP or not) 125w TDP 4.0Ghz = $62/Ghz 31w/Ghz ~15% improvement in perf/watt ~10% improvement in perf/dollar

[Steevo]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

I only play strategy games and do real work on my computer.


The FX is great for people who are not idiot gamers on roid rage and use the cpu for work intensive chores.

Is your "real work" somehow different than the F@H that many others here run, or other compute intensive work?


All I have seen out of you in this thread, that you joined to post in.


Is calling another member a liar for posting information that doesn't agree with your ideas.
Double posting.
Making baseless and false statements about "real work".
And the ever present red herring.


Congrats.

[HumanSmoke]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

imperialist wars...drones and black ops....mass murderers for Exxon-Mobil and the government which it and the banks control....[ TL; DC ]...

I'll admit you had me going there for a while....well played!. Intel troll masquerading as a larger-than-life delusional ranting AMD fanboy with only a tenuous grip on reality.

This IS a case of reverse psychology...isn't it?

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by TRWOV

I don't think that AMD actually stated that Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in IPC, if I recall correctly.

They said Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in throughput but that doesn't necessarily mean +15% IPC. They could mean performance/watt or performance/dollar and their statement would be true:

FX-8150 $245 125w TDP 3.6Ghz = $68/Ghz 34w/Ghz
FX-8350 $250?? (I don't know if this is MSRP or not) 125w TDP 4.0Ghz = $62/Ghz 31w/Ghz ~15% improvement in perf/watt ~10% improvement in perf/dollar

NO they definitely stated 15% IPC improvement.

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by erocker

One thing I've learned from these Bulldozer, Piledriver, etc. threads is not to believe anything about upcoming CPU's from you or SuperXP.

Believe me though, I want AMD to succeed, but every bit of pertinent information tells me that nothing "great" will be coming from AMD in the CPU market for quite some time.

Hey WHAT? Thought I heard my name

Nothing wrong with a little speculation. And when there is facts, I present them with links.

Originally Posted by os2wiz

NO they definitely stated 15% IPC improvement.

Link?
Thanks,

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by Steevo

Is your "real work" somehow different than the F@H that many others here run, or other compute intensive work?


All I have seen out of you in this thread, that you joined to post in.


Is calling another member a liar for posting information that doesn't agree with your ideas.
Double posting.
Making baseless and false statements about "real work".
And the ever present red herring.


Congrats.

Never said he was a liar but he definitely lied and I stated that. He could be the most honest person in the world in all other regards but he did NOT present facts he cpnjured up statements that bore no resemblance to the same benchmark results I and hundreds of others had seen in the past year. I know bulldozer did NOT do as well as expected in those benchmarks , but he exaggerated the findings to fit his unbridled hatred of AMD products. In most tests they were competitive, in single threaded games they were not.
I do believe that in most game tests Vishera will be in the running against a 2600k even if a little behind the 2600K. In most non-gaming benchmarks I believe it will blow away the 2600k.
I do a little Photoshop, a lot of word documents with photos, mostly leaflets to organize the working class for rebellion against the financial crisis and the rotten capitalist system. I am not an IT professional and I do not think one must be one to advocate intelligently for good hardware and software. I know moist gaming software is poorly designed and could potentially use multi-threading if the designers and companies had a desire to produce a superior product. They are lazy and making too much money, too easily of an ill-informed public. I am passionate and through my labor and student organizing skills and speech making over the years I know how to in a minimum of word cut through the bull and get to the salient points. I may offend some but that is not my object. My objective is to get to the objective truth. Now I am no shill for AMD, they are corporate and could well be lying about things .But I do know what they said and I do know the difference between smoke and mirrors and reality If the piledriver release is a promise not met I won't buy it and I will call them out on it If it is an improvement worthy of being called a next generation product I will buy it and advocate for it.