TechPowerUp! Official IC Diamond Test

[stinger608]

Originally Posted by Random Murderer

Received mine today, but I won't be able to test until this weekend.
It wasn't mentioned anywhere else in this thread that I saw, but it came with two envelopes of pressure paper labeled "A" and "B," and both contain the same size squares. The pressure paper was mentioned, but what's with the two separate envelopes, I thought it just turned pink/red where the pressure is applied? What am I missing here? Am I supposed to use one of each? I've never used pressure paper before, I feel dumb now, lol.

Oh, and thanks again Stinger and Andrew!

Hey RM, if you read the first post in the results thread here:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=170709

At the bottom of the original post that IC Diamond wrote you will see a short instruction on how the pressure paper is used. There is also a link to the manufacture site for further detailed instructions on the usage.

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by stinger608

Hey RM, if you read the first post in the results thread here:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=170709

At the bottom of the original post that IC Diamond wrote you will see a short instruction on how the pressure paper is used. There is also a link to the manufacture site for further detailed instructions on the usage.

Well, I didn't bother with the pressure paper yet, but did manage to get some results:

Parts used were as listed in my system specs, particularly the X79 system. Processor clocked at 4630, 128.625 x 36, 1.4Vcore, all cores and Hyperthreading enabled.
I used CoreTemp and HWMonitor to record average and maximum temperatures during a ten minute idle after a cold boot and during a fifteen minute load of OCCT 4.3.1 64bit AVX Linpack. CoreTemp will be abbreviated as CT, and HWMonitor as HWM.
The tests were performed back to back, I cold booted my PC this morning and took down the results for the MX-2 then immediately shut down and remounted with ICD24. This process took a while as it's a bit of a pain(to say the least) to remount this cooler.

Before Compound: MX-2
Ambient Temp: 24C
Idle Temp: avg CT 40C, avg HWM 42C, max CT 47C, max HWM 45C
Load Temp: avg CT 76C, avg HWM 74C, max CT 79C, max HWM 78C

ICD 24
Ambient Temp: 25C
Idle Temp: avg CT 38C, avg HWM 40C, max CT 49C, max HWM 48C
Load Temp: avg CT 72C, avg HWM 70C, max CT 78C, max HWM 76C

I'm pretty sure I can get better temps out of this, the ICD24 tests were run immediately after mounting the cooler and I'm not too sure I achieved a good mount. The extremely high viscosity of the ICD24 is making me question how well the paste spread under this HDT cooler...

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by Random Murderer

Well, I didn't bother with the pressure paper yet, but did manage to get some results:

Parts used were as listed in my system specs, particularly the X79 system. Processor clocked at 4630, 128.625 x 36, 1.4Vcore, all cores and Hyperthreading enabled.
I used CoreTemp and HWMonitor to record average and maximum temperatures during a ten minute idle after a cold boot and during a fifteen minute load of OCCT 4.3.1 64bit AVX Linpack. CoreTemp will be abbreviated as CT, and HWMonitor as HWM.
The tests were performed back to back, I cold booted my PC this morning and took down the results for the MX-2 then immediately shut down and remounted with ICD24. This process took a while as it's a bit of a pain(to say the least) to remount this cooler.

Before Compound: MX-2
Ambient Temp: 24C
Idle Temp: avg CT 40C, avg HWM 42C, max CT 47C, max HWM 45C
Load Temp: avg CT 76C, avg HWM 74C, max CT 79C, max HWM 78C

ICD 24
Ambient Temp: 25C
Idle Temp: avg CT 38C, avg HWM 40C, max CT 49C, max HWM 48C
Load Temp: avg CT 72C, avg HWM 70C, max CT 78C, max HWM 76C

I'm pretty sure I can get better temps out of this, the ICD24 tests were run immediately after mounting the cooler and I'm not too sure I achieved a good mount. The extremely high viscosity of the ICD24 is making me question how well the paste spread under this HDT cooler...

Average the load temps, then subtract the ambient temps, then subtract the after result from the before and you have an IC Diamond improvement of -3.75 C






HDT Application Video

http://youtu.be/rlO6Gx7Uf6g

[crazyeyesreaper]

do i get a prize for having the biggest temp change to date? j/k loving this TIM might replace whats on my GPU at some point.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

do i get a prize for having the biggest temp change to date? j/k loving this TIM might replace whats on my GPU at some point.

Best contact so far

[SonDa5]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

Best contact so far

By de-lidding the IHS from my i5-3570k I think I have the best contact with my DT SNIPER block.



Here is contact paper pressure test with my DT SNIPER water block on 3570k IHS and then 3570k direct die.

With IHS.



No IHS direct DIE!

[SonDa5]

A suggestion to IC Diamond.


I think the IC Diamond formula is a little too thick and not smooth enough which makes it hard to apply and it is rough which causes small little micro scratches on soft surfaces such as a CPU/GPU die.

I had a problem with a block that I think was caused by IC Diamond. I had a brand new block and I prepped and cleaned the gpu die and the block. It was super clean. I then put a pea size drop of IC diamond in the center and I mounted the block.

A few weeks later I took the block off to reconfigure my water loop and my block had a small hole in it and on the GPU it had a little mark in the same area. I can post a screen shots later on.

The block manufacturer replaced the block under RMA but they were not able to identify exactly what caused the problem and at the time I wasn't sure.

After doing alot of reading online I have read of many people stating that IC diamond is too hard and can scratch a bare die. I squeezed out a little IC Diamond and touched it with my figers and flet small little particles. I think it is not smooth enough and one of these little particles of diamond caused a break in copper of my block and luckily didn't damage my die.

I know these claims are not good news but I really have no other ideas for what could have done this. I want everyone to know about the problem I had so that people are aware and IC Diamond takes a look at the methods in processing this formula.


IC Diamond should re-do their formula and make it into a super smooth synthetic liquid formula. Something that goes on like liquid and creates a nice bond like liquid Ultra.

I'm going to be trying some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra in the next few weeks to see how it compares to IC Diamond. I haven't seen any reviews of IC Diamond vs. Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra.

[SonDa5]

Photos from the problem that I had that I think was created by some chunky diamond crystals were in my IC Diamond.



Pit in block


Mark on die with some micro scratches.

[OneMoar]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

Reserved for photos of damaged water block and mark on bare die.

the mark on the die could be caused by the paste drying on OR it eating into the die its self might wanna rethink running that chip in the nude IT Is diamond and diamond is hard ...
my chip also suffered from a slight `polish` nothing to be worried about if you have the IHS protecting it (its accually a good thing helps increase surface contact) it COULD end badly for a bare die tho ... I really should pull the heatsink off my gpu/northbridge and inspect

[SonDa5]

Originally Posted by OneMoar

the mark on the die could be caused by the paste drying on OR it eating into the die its self might wanna rethink running that chip in the nude IT Is diamond and diamond is hard ...
my chip also suffered from a slight `polish` nothing to be worried about if you have the IHS protecting it (its accually a good thing helps increase surface contact) it COULD end badly for a bare die tho ... I really should pull the heatsink off my gpu/northbridge and inspect

My HD7950 that I had the problem with doesn't have an IHS and I prefer bare die. I now think of IC Diamond as Diamond crystal dust cement and I got a bad batch of it.

From the photos it looks like a little glob of diamond crystal cement in the IC Diamond stood strong when I mounted my block and ripped into the block and left a mark on the die. I don't think it was a "eating" the copper. This happened fast after mounting it. I only had the block on the card for about 2 weeks when I took it off to do some loop modding I saw the damage.

[damric]

"ON MY HONOR IN EXCHANGE FOR FREE COMPOUND I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO TEST AND POST MY RESULTS"

I'm due for a TIM change, if this is still available.

[Morgoth]

I Finaly got the tim, ill start doing test's tonight

[OneMoar]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

Photos from the problem that I had that I think was created by some chunky diamond crystals were in my IC Diamond.



Pit in block
http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforI...Pitproblem.jpg

Mark on die with some micro scratches.
http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforI.../markondie.jpg

Oo thats quite a nasty little divit I don't see how you could have applied enough pressure to cause that tho thats a sizable hole .... hmmm

did you try re:lapping it ?

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

IC Diamond should re-do their formula and make it into a super smooth synthetic liquid formula. Something that goes on like liquid and creates a nice bond like liquid Ultra.

High viscosity (thickness) a desirable characteristic in a thermal compound and is the very definition of quality/reliability vs a highly liquid compound


OEM's Spec bulk loadings actually recommend above a 90+ % for reliability. IC Diamond boasts a 94% bulk loading which includes 92% diamond + miscellaneous material.

Below is an example from the MPC giveaway of a more liquid compound where the compound failed after400 hours it both pumped out and baked out.

The second image are from a test we ran comparing your more liquid retail compounds to IC Diamond many of which have be tested in this giveaway. The test was run for 20 hours at 150C, the center picture labeled ICD is IC Diamond The test highlights the stability of ICD7. The competition compounds feature the formation of voids, and span the range of initial failure to complete failure. IC diamond was observed to have no visible points of failure under these conditions. The picture is back lighted so the void formation is clearly visible




There are different kinds of thermal resistance. One is contact resistance which the retail compounds mostly rely on by being of higher liquid content so they flow real nice into the voids and air gaps and with great or low contact resistance enhances thermal performance so that out of the gate many users are thrilled with the performance. Instant gratification

Low viscosity, highly liquid thermal pastes enjoy an initial success but also make them susceptible to Pump Out. Pump Out occurs when the system heats up, the joint compresses, and a little of the liquid is pushed out. After a sufficient number of cycles, the paste has shrunken in size leaving voids and causing a contact resistance failure. A variant of compound failure, Bake Out , occurs when consistently high thermal stress causes loss of the liquid by evaporation. Pump Out and Bake Out reflect the research of many in the thermal community and hundreds of technical papers on the exist on the well-documented issue.


Liquid is a necessary component where thermal pastes are concerned otherwise you would be applying a powder. IC Diamond uses much less liquid so consequently is much less prone to failures as the liquid is wicked or baked away The shrinkage of the compound is almost non existent due to the low liquid volume content to begin with and so maintains contact/ thermal performance for extended periods and by design to set up into a crayon like consistency over time, still pliable and relying on the high bulk Diamond conductivity for performance as you are left with basically diamond held coherently together with the polymeric binders and is easily removed when re-liquefied with a solvent

So in short the reason it is thick is that it is harder to pump a solid than a liquid and provides a basis for long term extended reliability.

High viscosity or thickness of compound is a positive feature to seek out and necessary for for long term reliability

It's easy to design a compound for performance and it is also easy to design for reliability

It is very hard to do both in one package

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

A suggestion to IC Diamond.


I think the IC Diamond formula is a little too thick and not smooth enough which makes it hard to apply and it is rough which causes small little micro scratches on soft surfaces such as a CPU/GPU die.

I had a problem with a block that I think was caused by IC Diamond. I had a brand new block and I prepped and cleaned the gpu die and the block. It was super clean. I then put a pea size drop of IC diamond in the center and I mounted the block.

A few weeks later I took the block off to reconfigure my water loop and my block had a small hole in it and on the GPU it had a little mark in the same area. I can post a screen shots later on.

The block manufacturer replaced the block under RMA but they were not able to identify exactly what caused the problem and at the time I wasn't sure.

After doing alot of reading online I have read of many people stating that IC diamond is too hard and can scratch a bare die. I squeezed out a little IC Diamond and touched it with my figers and flet small little particles. I think it is not smooth enough and one of these little particles of diamond caused a break in copper of my block and luckily didn't damage my die.

I know these claims are not good news but I really have no other ideas for what could have done this. I want everyone to know about the problem I had so that people are aware and IC Diamond takes a look at the methods in processing this formula.

Lots of urban myth out there that lead to misunderstandings.

Diamond while being harder than most materials has an MOHS of 10 on the hardness scale it should be noted that aluminium oxide ( MOHS of 9) which is found in AS5, Ceramiq, Shin Etsu, MX4 etc. is only slightly or incrementally harder.

Aluminium oxide is what your typical sandpaper is comprised of and is found in most lapping compounds. Diamond will cut glass but so will aluminium oxide and is actually the preferred material when cutting or polishing glass.

Aluminium oxide is an electrical insulator but has a relatively high thermal conductivity (30 Wm−1K−1[1]) for a ceramic material. In its most commonly occurring crystalline form, called corundum or α-aluminium oxide, its hardness makes it suitable for use as an abrasive and as a component in cutting tools.[5]

In nearly all thermal compounds the manufacturers use variable sizes of grit in order to maximize physical/ thermal contact between particles but generally you will find most in the 400-600 grit range same as you would find in 400-600 grit sandpaper which is why when lapping IHS/Sink you see little or no thermal improvement advantage with a refined lap with say a 1200 grit.

Our grit sizes are comfortably in the same size range as other manufacturers use in their compounds.

Abrasives have to move in order to work or to be abrasive. When cleaning a part all compounds should be adequately re-liquified with a good solvent like acetone so they can be removed without any undue scrubbing action that would polish or scratch. Proper procedure is just good shop practice.

Just to note that we do buy our diamond from the largest USA manufacturer of diamond and is same quality/type they sell for optical lapping. The particle screening process has been pretty well established for over 100 years and if you understand the process you would understand that large particles or rocks as a component of our compound is highly unlikely. This is why you do not find lumps of corn seed in your flour or rocks in your toothpaste or pebbles in your table salt.

We contract mix our compound in a clean room environment in million dollar mixing machines with the mix heated and under a vacuum. the manufacturer samples all received material and tests for conformity to specifications. The compound is sent to us in containers that are attached directly to our dispensing machines for syringe filling so no chance of foreign particulate matter can enter the system.

There is no way to determine the source of your divot from your description, I might suggest secondary contamination at your site as a +1000X sized particle diamond off the norm while not impossible is highly unlikely and as noted we make every effort possible to provide a uniform stable product.

[SonDa5]

IC Diamond that makes sense to me. Thank you.

I just ordered some Coollaboratory Liquid Pro and now I am having my doubts about using it. I don't want it to pump out and bake out all of the sudden.

Are you aware of any of these pump out and bake out conditions that are common with CoolLaboratory liquid Pro?

Do you think it is possible I got a bad batch of IC Diamond that caused the pit to my block? It was only on it for about 3-4 weeks.

Also when I cleaned it off it left small scratches on my die and block and I did use proper liquids to clean but I rubbed instead of dabbed. Maby a liquid like package isn't best but is there a way to improve it so that it isn't so abrasive?

[SonDa5]

when does the die, IHS, or heatsink/ water block get to 150c? Or even close to that?

[DOM]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

when does the die, IHS, or heatsink/ water block get to 150c? Or even close to that?

thats what i was thinking

but i use the rub off to clean the paste off and this stuff takes longer to take off imo

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

IC Diamond that makes sense to me. Thank you.

I just ordered some Coollaboratory Liquid Pro and now I am having my doubts about using it. I don't want it to pump out and bake out all of the sudden.

You have good contact on the last C/P image unlike most so no voids to fill, pressure is a little light which plays to LM strengths so worth a shot


Are you aware of any of these pump out and bake out conditions that are common with CoolLaboratory liquid Pro?

Never tested the product for Reliability or seen any reliability test data on it. There are some papers LM in general


Do you think it is possible I got a bad batch of IC Diamond that caused the pit to my block? It was only on it for about 3-4 weeks.

See previous post #240

Also when I cleaned it off it left small scratches on my die and block. Mabel a liquid like package isn't best but is there a way to improve it so that it isn't so abrasive?

See previous post #240

[OneMoar]

just had mine apart no pitting or anything a there is some light scuffing but nothing that won't clean up with a mild cloth
could have been a fluke or perhaps the diamond tim reacted with some residue from the previous tim

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

when does the die, IHS, or heatsink/ water block get to 150c? Or even close to that?

Reliability tests are almost always accelerated stress tests - All the comparison compounds are spec'd to 150 to 180C peak for extended use. Test is a demo of IC Diamond durability/reliability

[erocker]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

Photos from the problem that I had that I think was created by some chunky diamond crystals were in my IC Diamond.



Pit in block
http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforI...Pitproblem.jpg

Mark on die with some micro scratches.
http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforI.../markondie.jpg

I may be wrong but it looks to me like a defect in the block itself. With a small air pocket in the metal, add heat and the metal around the pocket will degrade/disintegrate causing the pit.

[IC Diamond]

Here is some more reliability data


0.26% weight loss at 125 C, 1000 hrs
0.01% weight loss under thermal cycle in 1000 hrs (-40 C to +85 C)
0.49% weight loss after 1000 hrs at 85 C/85% RH
2.85% weight loss at 200 C, 24 hrs

[SonDa5]

Originally Posted by OneMoar

Oo thats quite a nasty little divit I don't see how you could have applied enough pressure to cause that tho thats a sizable hole .... hmmm

did you try re:lapping it ?

I had it RMAd and the manufacturer had no clue what caused it other then they said that they think a foreign object may have found its way into the application of TIM.

[SonDa5]

Originally Posted by erocker

I may be wrong but it looks to me like a defect in the block itself. With a small air pocket in the metal, add heat and the metal around the pocket will degrade/disintegrate causing the pit.

I have never heard of that before but it sounds possible. That is what I thought when I did an RMA with the manufacturer but they stated that it was impossible because of the high standards in their manufacturing process.

They did do an RMA out of kindness though. The block was less than a month old.

If you could please post some links to similar experiences from others with blocks. Thanks.