AMD's Graphics going under?

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by xenocide

It definitely is a problem here in the West. I know CEO compensation in the US is ridiculously high compared to other places. I remember seeing that news special about the Japanese CEO of the biggest airline in Japan, who cut his pay to like the median income of employees within the company, and declined his bonus because the company started doing poorly. He took the bus to work, ate in the cafeteria with the rest of the employees, and helped out where he could (going as far as answering phones and such even). You would never see something like that in the United States. His rationale was; "Why should I be rewarded if the company is doing poorly?"

If only every company was like that. The US has this greed complex where the rich always want more and the people who are just getting by struggle and work hard just to make ends meat. This drives me up a wall as well and it is one of the reasons why I enjoy working where I do. I work for a online high school as a System Admin and Developer and I'm the only full-time system admin/developer. (My boss, the CIO is actually only part time. He is finishing up his masters in philosophy, but we just had to go through the process to renew our charter as a charter school in the state of New Hampshire. When the charter renewal committee came in we had to give them access to all of our records and get interviewed by them. In the end we got our renewal without much effort. They also said that VLACS (where I work,) felt less like a workplace and more like a family.

With that said, VLACS has been constantly growing for the last 5 years since the institution was started and has dropped yet. I've been here for 4 years, don't get paid nearly as much as other System Admins and Developers, but you know what? I get provided a Mac laptop (right now I have a 13" Macbook Air with an Ivy Bridge i5,) I get to work from home half of the week, and the admin chain is small enough where my boss' boss is the end of the food chain.

The other day I found that I was struggling with how much I was getting paid so I took my boss aside and told him that I wanted more. He looked at me and smiled and said, "For the last 2 years I've been vouching for you to get a higher pay." Did they give me exactly what I wanted? No. Did they help me enough to enable me to support both my wife and daughter off my own income. Yes.

That is why big business blows, it doesn't work that way, people get stressed out, and the people who "can't be bothered" with being stressed out takes it out on the people that they don't even know to make their own life better. Where I work, everyone knows everyone, and losing anyone is felt throughout the institution.

I think this is the case for AMD, the problem is that management doesn't understand how much it is harming the institution because they're still living a cushy lifestyle with absolutely no change with how they conduct their lives. While AMD engineers get laid off, benefits cut, and left upstream without a paddle even though they worked hard and did good work.

That is what pisses me off and capitalism will fail for that simple reason. We need a Swedes to tell us how awesome that a generous social welfare state is and how when everyone does well, the country does well.

[largon]

Originally Posted by de.das.dude

and intel paid up for it [illegal rebates] once, if i am not mistaken.

I'd say Intel rather invested in it.

[FreedomEclipse]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

If only every company was like that. The US has this greed complex where the rich always want more and the people who are just getting by struggle and work hard just to make ends meat. This drives me up a wall as well and it is one of the reasons why I enjoy working where I do. I work for a online high school as a System Admin and Developer and I'm the only full-time system admin/developer. (My boss, the CIO is actually only part time. He is finishing up his masters in philosophy, but we just had to go through the process to renew our charter as a charter school in the state of New Hampshire. When the charter renewal committee came in we had to give them access to all of our records and get interviewed by them. In the end we got our renewal without much effort. They also said that VLACS (where I work,) felt less like a workplace and more like a family.

With that said, VLACS has been constantly growing for the last 5 years since the institution was started and has dropped yet. I've been here for 4 years, don't get paid nearly as much as other System Admins and Developers, but you know what? I get provided a Mac laptop (right now I have a 13" Macbook Air with an Ivy Bridge i5,) I get to work from home half of the week, and the admin chain is small enough where my boss' boss is the end of the food chain.

The other day I found that I was struggling with how much I was getting paid so I took my boss aside and told him that I wanted more. He looked at me and smiled and said, "For the last 2 years I've been vouching for you to get a higher pay." Did they give me exactly what I wanted? No. Did they help me enough to enable me to support both my wife and daughter off my own income. Yes.

That is why big business blows, it doesn't work that way, people get stressed out, and the people who "can't be bothered" with being stressed out takes it out on the people that they don't even know to make their own life better. Where I work, everyone knows everyone, and losing anyone is felt throughout the institution.

I think this is the case for AMD, the problem is that management doesn't understand how much it is harming the institution because they're still living a cushy lifestyle with absolutely no change with how they conduct their lives. While AMD engineers get laid off, benefits cut, and left upstream without a paddle even though they worked hard and did good work.

That is what pisses me off and capitalism will fail for that simple reason. We need a Swedes to tell us how awesome that a generous social welfare state is and how when everyone does well, the country does well.

Fact: you don't know what you've got till its gone.


I hold a small hope that the engineers who do get given the boot will be able to turn the situation around by forming a new company. with 20-30% of the workforce going mainly aimed at designers and engineers, Im sure they can gather enough people to make the whole thing work.

pull together a team of maybe 100-300 people, put all their ideas on the table. any designs that were good, that could have been used by AMD but didnt get the greenlight. then take what they have to some investors and see if they can get some capital to move the ball forward.

But i think that any oldskool ATi employees could possibly hold a lot of influence and sway some of the investors.



30% = hope, 70% = Passion (for doing the thing they love)

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by FreedomEclipse

I hold a small hope that the engineers who do get given the boot will be able to turn the situation around by forming a new company. with 20-30% of the workforce going mainly aimed at designers and engineers, Im sure they can gather enough people to make the whole thing work.

pull together a team of maybe 100-300 people, put all their ideas on the table. any designs that were good, that could have been used by AMD but didnt get the greenlight. then take what they have to some investors and see if they can get some capital to move the ball forward.

But i think that any oldskool ATi employees could possibly hold a lot of influence and sway some of the investors.

That's a lot of investment resources to start from scratch. Don't forget, AMD still holds the patents and rights on all of ATi's hardware. It would be a hell of an undertaking and you know what? I would support it 100%.

[FreedomEclipse]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

That's a lot of investment resources to start from scratch. Don't forget, AMD still holds the patents and rights on all of ATi's hardware. It would be a hell of an undertaking and you know what? I would support it 100%.

If some ex-Nokia staff managed to do the exact same thing and come out with a new handset that was based off designs that werent used by Nokia then im sure they could do the same. There has to be loads of ideas or schematics that someone has drawn up but didnt take to the board meeting to be discussed and put into production. engineers/designers don't just 'turn off' when they get home, they might at home but that doesnt mean they wont take pen to paper and come out with something thats totally just awesome.

who knows?? maybe they took the design to the board meeting and the CEO just laughed and dismissed his idea as it might of taken a complete redesign of the current architectures to work and then some.

[xenocide]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

If only every company was like that. The US has this greed complex where the rich always want more and the people who are just getting by struggle and work hard just to make ends meat.

I always make it a point to distinguish between Capitalism and American Capitalism for that exact reason. The way the US operates is completely absurd. But I am glad you have a great job that you love and is willing to provide for you and your family as needed. Most people don't even have that.

As for a new competitor in the GPU space, I have severe doubts, but there have definitely historically been companies that start small and combine some of the best talent with the will to make an exceptional product, and the results have been fantastic.

[Derek12]

Like or not, I think SoC are the future, and more probabily ARM ones. That if not embeeded systems.

[20mmrain]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

2006*

1. AMD bought out ATI. They didn't have the resources for it and still don't. Instead of buying out ATI, they should have put that money into making a better product or a mass marketing campaign.

2. Intel released Core 2 Duo which trounced not only everything AMD had available, but everything they planned on releasing too (specifically Phenom/Phenom II).

It's not necessarily that they didn't have the resources to buy ATI..... If they would've bought ATI just to buy ATI things would've been fine. However they bought ATI to work on their CPU/GPU integration among other things.
In the end it was a risky business move and it failed. Businesses do things like that all the time.... and it just wasn't the choice of them buying ATI that made AMD fail. It was several bad business moves over the past few years that made AMD fail.

But that is what you do in business...... take risks!!..... some work out.... other end like this.

[nt300]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

That is what pisses me off and capitalism will fail for that simple reason.

Good point, but there a difference between 2 types of capitalism.

Vulture Capitalism = Government deregulation for the rich so they can exploit the system and get richer while the middle class gets destroyed.
Capitalism = If ran properly can help list the middleclass and get the poor into middleclass status while the rich continue to live comfortable.

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by nt300

Good point, but there a difference between 2 types of capitalism.

Vulture Capitalism = Government deregulation for the rich so they can exploit the system and get richer while the middle class gets destroyed.
Capitalism = If ran properly can help list the middleclass and get the poor into middleclass status while the rich continue to live comfortable.

If water was wine it would make us all happily drunk. Water is not wine and capitalism naturally gravitates towards monopoly and tyrannical Draconian exploitation of the working class. There is no middle class. There is a petty bourgeoisie that represents small business , shop-keepers who are wannabee capitalists that mostly fail in their enterprise and are driven down into poverty. Economies of scale require capital and that capital concentrates more and more in fewer hands. The driving force is the maximizing of profit.
Capital Volume I. Karl Marx. The clarity with which this volume utterly and definitively defines the crisis which is still unfolding should be read by ALL. It is undeniable truth that capitalism is its own gravedigger

We need to finish the task by kicking its rotting carcass into its own grave and building an egalitarian world for all those who toil.There is not one ill in the world that is not either a product of capitalism or made vey much worse by capitalism. From malnutrition and starvation in spite of great agricultural land lying fallow and food by the hundreds of metric tons being thrown away to mass unemployment,war, racism, disease and pestilence abounding due to allocation of resources solely for profit instead of for human need.This will all be resolved in the coming generation by world revolution and working class seizure of power.

[remixedcat]

AMD should have focused more on desktop CPU and mobile (growing market) and not wasted the money with purchasing ATI then they would have been better off.

[james888]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

If water was wine it would make us all happily drunk. Water is not wine and capitalism naturally gravitates towards monopoly and tyrannical Draconian exploitation of the working class. There is no middle class. There is a petty bourgeoisie that represents small business , shop-keepers who are wannabee capitalists that mostly fail in their enterprise and are driven down into poverty. Economies of scale require capital and that capital concentrates more and more in fewer hands. The driving force is the maximizing of profit.
Capital Volume I. Karl Marx. The clarity with which this volume utterly and definitively defines the crisis which is still unfolding should be read by ALL. It is undeniable truth that capitalism is its own gravedigger

We need to finish the task by kicking its rotting carcass into its own grave and building an egalitarian world for all those who toil.There is not one ill in the world that is not either a product of capitalism or made vey much worse by capitalism. From malnutrition and starvation in spite of great agricultural land lying fallow and food by the hundreds of metric tons being thrown away to mass unemployment,war, racism, disease and pestilence abounding due to allocation of resources solely for profit instead of for human need.This will all be resolved in the coming generation by world revolution and working class seizure of power.

Two ways to define egalitarianism. It is defined either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people or the decentralization of power.

I could be considered an egalitarian because I feel the government has grown too strong and desire to decentralize it. Governments always act in their best interests and slowly drift towards tyrannical draconian exploitation of everyone. You must be of the first definition. You must desire a revolution to take over the government and fix all the problems with force. Would all the wrongs be fixed though? No. Not even the strongest of governments can fix the problems of the worlds no matter what policies they use. You can't end unemployment by saying "Here you go, have a job." It just doesn't work for economic reasons. You can't just say "You will stop being a racist!" because it wont work. You can't stop racism at gunpoint.

We can agree on many problems in our society today. Our monetary, fiscal, and economic policies are so flawed that it does not even have a real foundation to stand on. That needs to be reformed. There are many social issues. Those need to be changed by society not government.

You speak of revolution. I talk with people all over the political spectrum. The anarcho capitalists I talk to speak of revolution also. Both are fringes in the political sphere and only small parts of the whole.

[os2wiz]

Originally Posted by james888

Two ways to define egalitarianism. It is defined either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people or the decentralization of power.

I could be considered an egalitarian because I feel the government has grown too strong and desire to decentralize it. Governments always act in their best interests and slowly drift towards tyrannical draconian exploitation of everyone. You must be of the first definition. You must desire a revolution to take over the government and fix all the problems with force. Would all the wrongs be fixed though? No. Not even the strongest of governments can fix the problems of the worlds no matter what policies they use. You can't end unemployment by saying "Here you go, have a job." It just doesn't work for economic reasons. You can't just say "You will stop being a racist!" because it wont work. You can't stop racism at gunpoint.

We can agree on many problems in our society today. Our monetary, fiscal, and economic policies are so flawed that it does not even have a real foundation to stand on. That needs to be reformed. There are many social issues. Those need to be changed by society not government.

You speak of revolution. I talk with people all over the political spectrum. The anarcho capitalists I talk to speak of revolution also. Both are fringes in the political sphere and only small parts of the whole.

Don't condescend to marginalize me.Bold leadership with a vision based on well-grounded ideas and practice is always in a class society going to be found in small number. When they through dedication and base-building with those we work and live with over time find traction for their ideas then they can grow from small to large in almost an exponential fashion. That is quantity into quality , a law of dialectics. In your terms call it a quantum leap. It is part of the process of change in nature and in human society as well. We are off topic so I suggest we let this discussion termiinate before moderation steps in.

[james888]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

Don't condescend to marginalize me.Bold leadership with a vision based on well-grounded ideas and practice is always in a class society going to be found in small number. When they through dedication and base-building with those we work and live with over time find traction for their ideas then they can grow from small to large in almost an exponential fashion. That is quantity into quality , a law of dialectics. In your terms call it a quantum leap. It is part of the process of change in nature and in human society as well. We are off topic so I suggest we let this discussion termiinate before moderation steps in.

So now you think we are off topic. Instead of asking to discuss this via pm I will pm you.

[Derek12]

Originally Posted by remixedcat

AMD should have focused more on desktop CPU and mobile (growing market) and not wasted the money with purchasing ATI then they would have been better off.

True, besides maintaning those huge divisions is costly.

[crazyeyesreaper]

without ATi aquistion AMD would have been dead in the water in the mobile space, It is because of the ATi acquisition that they are still viable in that segment to begin with. Desktops are a shrinking market or soon to be so AMD in theory made the right move in aquiring ATi for what they are trying to do. Should AMD manage to drop power consumption ever further they could enter smartphone market where they would have the edge in GPU power compared to most other companies. Regardless AMD by themselves would be in just a bad of shape without ATi as they are with them Its a rather moot point. Bulldozer has been talked about since 2004 or 2005 long before AMD acquired ATi so in that regard the chip is a fail today buying ATi didnt change that lol.

[Morrison5891]

Originally Posted by trickson

I think it is because AMD has lost it edge it once had and is sliding into some kind of weird Over Clocking PR game and NOT giving Intel a real run for it's money.
AMD should be using every thing they have to retake the lead not just jack up the CPU speed and put out the lames ass shit Over clocking crap they have been doing. All there PR is backfiring on them!

Totally agree!

[drdeathx]

2% of the market is enthusiasts. AMD's thought is in the right direction buut it may be too late. They bring in too much revenue to go by the wayside. A bigger entity will scoop them up soon like Microsoft. That is my prediction.

[james888]

Originally Posted by drdeathx

2% of the market is enthusiasts. AMD's thought is in the right direction buut it may be too late. They bring in too much revenue to go by the wayside. A bigger entity will scoop them up soon like Microsoft. That is my prediction.

Then we might get Amd optimized hardware...

[drdeathx]

Originally Posted by james888

Then we might get Amd optimized hardware...

What about Apple?

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by drdeathx

What about Apple?

I hope not, or it's no more buying AMD for me if Apple buys them.

[user21]

lame... :P

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by os2wiz

Don't condescend to marginalize me.Bold leadership with a vision based on well-grounded ideas and practice is always in a class society going to be found in small number. When they through dedication and base-building with those we work and live with over time find traction for their ideas then they can grow from small to large in almost an exponential fashion. That is quantity into quality , a law of dialectics. In your terms call it a quantum leap. It is part of the process of change in nature and in human society as well. We are off topic so I suggest we let this discussion termiinate before moderation steps in.

way to go off topic. Didn't know this thread said "Political Convention!". I feel like you just went online and found something "smart" sounding and copied and pasted it.

[trickson]

Why the fuck would AMD want to do this? I just do not get it! They are the best video card GPU makers in the world! TO see AMD strip them like this or even cut the work force of ATI is more than a shame! It is a reflection of just where AMD is going. It is a reflection of how fucked up the CEO's of AMD really are! Pure FUCKING DIPSHITTERY! IMHO! If I were AMD I would be pumping up the video card sector and cranking up R&D! What the hell???!!!

[anubis44]

Originally Posted by Phusius

i like boobs

Hey! This is a casual chat forum. No need to shower us with such complex rhetoric!