Does a 1080 tv ever display an image correctly...

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by Lazzer408

Yes. 1920x1080 PROGRESSIVE works fine through the VGA port but Windows didn't detect the display. I had to create a custom resolution. Looks near perfect and fits dot4dot but a digital signal through HDMI should look even better but doesn't.



1920x1080 looks great using the VGA port on the TV. The HDMI input looks like crap and must be scaling somewhere between the input and the panel. There's no PC or gaming mode in the menu. I have 3 HDMI ports but none are labled HDMI(DVI) or HDMI(game), ect. Port 3 I just noticed yesterday because it was apart from the others so I'll try it tomorrow. Maybe there's something special about it.

use one of the DVI ports, and then look for the button that changes between 4:3/16:9/just scan/1:1 pixel, whatever its called. odds are one mode there will look correct (on my old samsung its just scan, my housemates new samsung its 16:9 - so it varies even in the same brand)

once you've got that done, scour every last menu on the TV and video card drivers for over/underscan. AMD default to 15% underscan, for example.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Mussels

newtekie: you're confusing the fact that 768p screens work at 1080i, with what they're sold as. 1080i screens did exist (if uncommon). just because 768p screens work at 1080i is no reason to call them 1080i screens, it just adds to the confusion.

1366x768 screens were often sold as 1080i TVs with 1080i advertised on the box, yes it was confusing and incorrect, but that is how it was. I'm not confusing this, they really were sold at 1080i TVs. However, 1080p has not been that way, when they say 1080p the TV has a 1920x1080 panel.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

1366x768 screens were often sold as 1080i TVs with 1080i advertised on the box, yes it was confusing and incorrect, but that is how it was. I'm not confusing this, they really were sold at 1080i TVs. However, 1080p has not been that way, when they say 1080p the TV has a 1920x1080 panel.

that would be a marketing problem in your area then.

They should have been advertised as 1080i capable (or 1080i inputs), with their native res listed somewhere.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Mussels

that would be a marketing problem in your area then.

They should have been advertised as 1080i capable (or 1080i inputs), with their native res listed somewhere.

Oh the native res was always listed somewhere, but that didn't stop them from slapping huge 1080i stickers on the packaging and advertising them as 1080i TVs. The front of the box would have huge 1080i logos on it, and the real native resolution would be listed in a small table of specs on the side of the box. But that was the beginning of the HDTV era, now that trick doesn't really work anymore, so they label the TVs 720p, the term 1080i has pretty much died.

[Mussels]

well, its irrelevant since it works at 1080p on VGA. we just need to focus on the settings that are screwing with his HDMI.

[Lazzer408]

The 3rd HDMI input is the same as the others.

To show the problem that's happening, I've set up the TV's HDMI and VGA as multimonitor and cloned with both running 1920x1080p. I have both a VGA cable and an HDMI cable running from an HD7770 to the TV. I can now use the TV remote to switch between the two and compair. To get the HDMI signal to fit the screen, I have to use ATI's underscan feature found in CCC.

There may be some moire distortion from my camera. Please ignore that.
The images are as follows.

First image: HDMI 1080p full screen.
Second image: HDMI 1080p close up of problem with fine lines.
Third image: VGA 1080p full screen
Forth image: VGA 1080p close up of fine lines properly displayed.
Fifth image: 1920x1080 test pattern. View full screen to test your display. It should look like the forth image. If not, your scaling.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by Lazzer408

...that's coming from a PC?

I recently purchased two HDTVs. A 42" Hisense and a 24" Sansui. Most computer monitors, as you know, will look like $hit unless it's running at native resolution. At native, the image is nice and sharp because every pixle generated lands on a pixle in the LCD panel. LCD TVs, on the other hand, seem to -ALL- look like crap and need lots of tweaking and manual adjustment to get it to look 'ok' at best. Why is this? Do HDTVs use some odd-ball LCD panels that aren't actually 1920x1080? Everything to date leaves a black border around the desktop when using HDMI set to 1920x1080@60. It also looks as if the sharpness is cranked to infiity leaving the image very grainy and the contrast/gamma makes everything washed out. I saw that you also had problems with nvidia. However, did you set the driver scaling to 1:1? (It's got the option for it)

It's not just the HDTVs I've tried recently. It's every HDTV I've ever tried to use with a computer. I've tried onboard gfx, nvidia, ATI/AMD.

I'm using the Sansui at the moment and the gamma is so far off my eyes are watering.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? What's different in a 1920x1080 TV vs. a 1920x1280 monitor? What I wouldn't give to go back to 4:3 when everything worked and ran higher then this marketing magic that is "HD".

I've not read the whole thread, so I'm sorry if I've duplicated anything here.

There seem to be two problems here. Firstly, it's the TVs themselves, as they seldom seem to display a correct 1080p PC picture without some fiddling and faffing, even when connecting HDMI-HDMI. This includes TVs with a true 1920x1080 resolution. The picture isn't mapped properly 1:1 to the display pixels and sharpness tends to be off are the two most common problems.

Second problem appears to be with AMD drivers, yet again. With my nvidia cards, I can achieve the correct 1:1 pixel mapping by tweaking TV and video drivers, achieving a good, sharp picture. However, with the AMD cards, I can never get them to map 1:1, giving a frankly shit picture. This was true of discreet graphics cards and my laptop with AMD graphics and a HDMI port. It's a really stupid and dumb problem, so I dunno why it continues to be a problem at all. Surely, just generating a virgin 1080p signal and displaying it 1:1 without pointless post-processing is the easiest thing?!

Now, it's been a good year or so since I tried this, but from what I see here, the problem still isn't resolved and with the way AMD is going these days, I'm not surprised.

In the case of your specific TVs, if they weren't 1080p then that would explain why the picture looked crap, even though they were technically "compatible" with it.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by qubit

I've not read the whole thread, so I'm sorry if I've duplicated anything here.

There seem to be two problems here. Firstly, it's the TVs themselves, as they seldom seem to display a correct 1080p PC picture without some fiddling and faffing, even when connecting HDMI-HDMI. This includes TVs with a true 1920x1080 resolution. The picture isn't mapped properly 1:1 to the display pixels and sharpness tends to be off are the two most common problems.

Second problem appears to be with AMD drivers, yet again. With my nvidia cards, I can achieve the correct 1:1 pixel mapping by tweaking TV and video drivers, achieving a good, sharp picture. However, with the AMD cards, I can never get them to map 1:1, giving a frankly shit picture. This was true of discreet graphics cards and my laptop with AMD graphics and a HDMI port. It's a really stupid and dumb problem, so I dunno why it continues to be a problem at all. Surely, just generating a virgin 1080p signal and displaying it 1:1 without pointless post-processing is the easiest thing?!

Now, it's been a good year or so since I tried this, but from what I see here, the problem still isn't resolved and with the way AMD is going these days, I'm not surprised.

In the case of your specific TVs, if they weren't 1080p then that would explain why the picture looked crap, even though they were technically "compatible" with it.

Lazzer: hunt through the video menus and try everything. theres got to be some setting (game mode, or similar) to turn off the post processing. hell maybe its just the sharpness option.

qubit: the AMD problem is the overscan in the CCC. its common, but easily fixed. Some TV's do look crap no matter what you do.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by Mussels

qubit: the AMD problem is the overscan in the CCC. its common, but easily fixed. Some TV's do look crap no matter what you do.

Thanks M, I might try another fiddle, lol, even though I'm sure I had a go with that at the time. Weirdly, you don't get any of this shit when connecting AMD cards to 1080p monitors. Why a 1080p monitor with a tuner and remote control, then called a "TV" should be so different is a mystery to me.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by qubit

Thanks M, I might try another fiddle, lol, even though I'm sure I had a go with that at the time. Weirdly, you don't get any of this shit when connecting AMD cards to 1080p monitors. Why a 1080p monitor with a tuner and remote control, then called a "TV" should be so different is a mystery to me.

because true HDMI devices dont have EDID info. they just assume the signal is one of three modes (720p, 1080i, 1080p).

then the manufacturers add in their image 'enhancements' to make video look better, and overscan to compensate for something that doesnt exist.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by Mussels

because true HDMI devices dont have EDID info. they just assume the signal is one of three modes (720p, 1080i, 1080p).

then the manufacturers add in their image 'enhancements' to make video look better, and overscan to compensate for something that doesnt exist.

What can I do but facepalm?

[Lazzer408]

Originally Posted by Mussels

the manufacturers add in their image 'enhancements' to make video look better

That's exactly it and usually there's a game mode or pc mode in the TV's settings or even a particular port designed for 1:1. What's agravating are the enhancements fiddling with the resolution/scaling/sampling/scaning/whatever itself. A 1080 signal should match dot4dot to a 1080 panel REGUARDLESS of any enhancements.

I've contacted the manufacture and will hear back from them Monday. Being "a retailer who's considering their products" gets me a little more attention from them. I told them, fix the issue and I'll resell your products, but I can't sell defective products.

[techpun]

Do they fall into this category, I always thought my text was blurry and not readable from far distances because of a DLP but to find out it may be because I have ATI vid card is good to know.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by techpun

Do they fall into this category, I always thought my text was blurry and not readable from far distances because of a DLP but to find out it may be because I have ATI vid card is good to know.

the AMD bug is a simple slider in the drivers.

[Lazzer408]

Originally Posted by techpun

Do they fall into this category, I always thought my text was blurry and not readable from far distances because of a DLP but to find out it may be because I have ATI vid card is good to know.

Yes. A DLP also needs a dot4dot native signal to be sharp, BUT, you will have to underscan your image anyways to make it fit the screen so dot4dot won't help you. DLP ALWAYS overscans the projected image to the screen is completely filled.

Originally Posted by Mussels

the AMD bug is a simple slider in the drivers.

What bug? 1920x1080 is 1920x1080. If there's a "bug" it's probably the TV's fault.



Here's what the manufacture had to say about my issue.

"Sir,
Thank you for your comments. I understand your question and have heard this from other people as well, but unfortunately what you are trying to accomplish is not what this TV was designed or intended for. Hisense clearly states in the owner’s manual that this unit is intended for use as an LCD TV, not a monitor.

Thank you"


No name or nothing. Man what a cop-out. So others are having the same problem. Since HiSense is a manufacture of other brands as well, I wonder how many other TVs have the problem.

I read about a guy who walked into a TV store with his laptop and told the salesman that if any of the TVs would properly display his laptop without tweaking, he would buy it. NONE of them did.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Lazzer408

What bug? 1920x1080 is 1920x1080. If there's a "bug" it's probably the TV's fault.

AMD drivers have a bug that sets the over/underscan option to a value other than 0 when using HDMI with a HDTV. So there is a black boarder around the image on the TV and the image looks like crap. That is what he is talking about.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

AMD drivers have a bug that sets the over/understand option to a value other than 0 when using HDMI with a HDTV. So there is a black boarder around the image on the TV and the image looks like crap. That is what he is talking about.

You'd think they could fix a tiddly little problem like that, wouldn't you?

[Lazzer408]

Someone mentioned in 12.8 they fixed that. That's easy enough to adjust to zero but at zero it's too big for the screen.

I'm interested to hear what Hisense says about this issue. If they are telling me "unfortunately what you are trying to accomplish is not what this TV was designed or intended for" then I guess their 1080p TV is not intended to display a 1920x1080 signal? Idiots. I won't stop until they fix it. >.<

[eidairaman1]

guess that means a Monitor works better than a TV despite the Pixels on screen being the same

[Lazzer408]

I guess. How many companies use TVs as displays for marketing and conferencing? It should be "standard" for any 1080p TV to -correctly- play 1080p content...right? I mean, my car starts when I turn the key. That's fairly standard in the automotive industry.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Lazzer408

That's easy enough to adjust to zero but at zero it's too big for the screen.

That's messed up. It shouldn't do that unless the image is being scaled by the TV.

[Lazzer408]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

That's messed up. It shouldn't do that unless the image is being scaled by the TV.

IT IS!

Thanks for reading.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by Lazzer408

Someone mentioned in 12.8 they fixed that. That's easy enough to adjust to zero but at zero it's too big for the screen.

I'm interested to hear what Hisense says about this issue. If they are telling me "unfortunately what you are trying to accomplish is not what this TV was designed or intended for" then I guess their 1080p TV is not intended to display a 1920x1080 signal? Idiots. I won't stop until they fix it. >.<

if 0 is too big for the screen, your screen has overscan enabled and thats the cause of your image problems. if you dont have it at zero in the AMD drivers you will NEVER fix the image problems.

[Lazzer408]

I can't change the fitment options of the TV when using HDMI so whatever they did it's fixed at overscan.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by Lazzer408

I can't change the fitment options of the TV when using HDMI so whatever they did it's fixed at overscan.

its buried in there somewhere. on my samsung theres a button on the remote to change the aspect ratio - 4:3. 16:9, zoom, etc. try that in every mode and see if one works. and to reinforce it - with AMD overscan at 0