Bitcoins!

[qubit]

Interesting. The main attraction of BitCoins is that it's a truly anonymous currency, making tracking of who traded with who next to impossible - perfect for ardent privacy enthusiasts and scam artists alike. The big catch of course, is that to register for a debit/credit card, customers will have to register in just the same way as for any other debit/credit card by providing full personal, verifiable details, destroying this critical anonymity - the whole point of BitCoins, hence its popularity remains to be seen.

Those of you who have been around the Bitcoin block a time or two have probably heard of, and even used, BitInstant. BitInstant is a service that provides the ability to transfer funds between Bitcoin and governmental currencies much more quickly than would otherwise be possible. They're also well known for certain transaction types not offered anywhere else, such as the ability to buy BTC with cash at thousands of locations across the United States, and the similarly unprecedented ability to withdraw bitcoins to scam-laden PayPal. A few hours ago, Charlie Shrem confirmed in a conversation on IRC that they're 6 to 8 weeks away from launching the biggest Bitcoin breakthrough in recent history: A bitcoin-funded international debit/credit card.

I'll paste the entire contents of the IRC conversation at the end of this post, but here's the basic breakdown so far:

The card will function as a standard debit/credit card and should be accepted anywhere that accepts MasterCard, even internationally.
The first 1,000 or so will be given away for free, subsequent cards will cost an unknown, but fairly low, amount of money - Mr. Shrem thinks about $10.
Funding the card will cost roughly a 1% fee.
Each card will bear a QR code on the front and a printed address on the back for funding.
There will be an option to hold your card balance in BTC until the card is used to make a payment or withdrawal.
Transactions under $1,000 will be funded after the first confirmation, not the standard 6. Transactions over $1,000 were not discussed.
The cards themselves will be issued by "a major international bank" that BitInstant has teamed up with. This of course means that the traditional AML or other local laws & regulations for obtaining a bank account, such as proof of identity, will apply as per your jurisdiction.
You own the address on the card, though BitInstant has not yet determined the best way to hand over your private keys, or whether they should even offer such an option.
Update: There is now a signup form for the first cards going out. I assume there will be something more official on BitInstant's site in time, but for now this Google form has been made available by Mr. Shrem in the meantime.

Coding In My Sleep (the full IRC is there now)

[Phusius]

I'm thinking of getting into this, can someone PM me with a legit website that does this?

[copenhagen69]

Bitcoins are still around?

[exodusprime1337]

Originally Posted by copenhagen69

Bitcoins are still around?

Oh definately. I've been mining for a while now with pretty much ever amd gpu i can find, mostly work computers and the like.

[copenhagen69]

Originally Posted by exodusprime1337

Oh definately. I've been mining for a while now with pretty much ever amd gpu i can find, mostly work computers and the like.

making any money on it? or is the electricity bill still more than what you make?

[Phusius]

Originally Posted by copenhagen69

making any money on it? or is the electricity bill still more than what you make?

my apartment pays for electricity personally, so thats not an issue with me, the more reason i need to find a legit bitcoin site and nab me a couple 7970's specifically for bitcoining.

[james888]

Originally Posted by Phusius

my apartment pays for electricity personally, so thats not an issue with me, the more reason i need to find a legit bitcoin site and nab me a couple 7970's specifically for bitcoining.

I am your man. What do you need to know? I'll just send you a pm.

[eidairaman1]

no thanks. Sounds Like Pyramid Schemes and Timeshares...

[james888]

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

no thanks. Sounds Like Pyramid Schemes and Timeshares...

Less a pyramid scheme than the US dollar. It is a digital commodity. Imagine it like digital gold. Bitcoins could be considered an investment like gold, but bitcoins are definitely high risk. High risk can come with high reward but is still high risk.

Originally Posted by qubit

Interesting. The main attraction of BitCoins is that it's a truly anonymous currency, making tracking of who traded with who next to impossible - perfect for ardent privacy enthusiasts and scam artists alike.

Bitcoin is not so anonymous as everyone originally thought. It is very difficult to find and prove that a certain address is a certain person. All transaction made in bitcoins are public record. Using computers to analyze that data can make it very easy to track a person if you know at least one of their addresses.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by james888

Less a pyramid scheme than the US dollar. It is a digital commodity. Imagine it like digital gold. Bitcoins could be considered an investment like gold, but bitcoins are definitely high risk. High risk can come with high reward but is still high risk.

considering computers can go down quick or even the fact of a company suddenly going belly up. not worth it imho

[james888]

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

considering computers can go down quick or even the fact of a company suddenly going belly up. not worth it imho

Not much to argue against in the first sentence. Just like anything digital, you can back it up to whatever extend you want. I am unsure of your meaning about belly up.

Worth is a matter of perspective and is different to each individual. If you knew more about bitcoin you might think differently. I gave phusius some more info and once he learned he wouldn't be making much mining bitcoins he was not interested. There are many benefits to bitcoins though, but none may interest you.

[xenocide]

"Digital Gold" is a bad analogy. Gold is considered valuable because even if a currency completely vanishes, it retains value because it is a desirable resource, and has legitimate value regardless of where you are. BitCoins are exactly like the US Dollar, or even worse as I see it. Their value is determined quite literally by what people are willing to pay for them, and from what I've seen the people who made the most off Bitcoins were the early adopters and people who helped create them--which basically means it was a scam on their behalf that worked out pretty wonderfully.

[MT Alex]

Originally Posted by xenocide

BitCoins are exactly like the US Dollar, or even worse as I see it.

I'm not sure if I'd go with worse, at least there is a finite number of bitcoins. The amount of dollars being printed isn't even limited by paper and ink. Bernanke wiggles his nose and POOF! another $400 Billion in devalued "dollars."

[james888]

Originally Posted by xenocide

"Digital Gold" is a bad analogy. Gold is considered valuable because even if a currency completely vanishes, it retains value because it is a desirable resource, and has legitimate value regardless of where you are. BitCoins are exactly like the US Dollar, or even worse as I see it. Their value is determined quite literally by what people are willing to pay for them, and from what I've seen the people who made the most off Bitcoins were the early adopters and people who helped create them--which basically means it was a scam on their behalf that worked out pretty wonderfully.

Gold does have a value beyond what people are willing to pay for it. Bitcoin does too but no where near as high. The going rate for btc/dollars is no where near as high either. Bitcoin is still very very young. I am not saying I agree with it but some say that bitcoin is like the internet before the browser.

A scam is define as "A dishonest scheme; a fraud." Bitcoin is in no way dishonest and is not a fraud. Bitcoin is completely transparent actually. So there go's that.

The people who made the most of bitcoins were the early adopters. The people who paved the way to where bitcoin is now. Bitcoin would not exist without those early adopters who took the risk. High risk = high reward or high loss. Looks like they lucked out.

How is this for a scam? The US government can print as much money as it wants. Inflation = taxation. Currently the government is adding 40 billion (source) a month to the dollar making all my money worth less. What about quantitative easing? Anything seem fishy here.

[AphexDreamer]

The only thing I regret with bit coins is not backing up my wallet.

Once I formatted and forgot to back it up, I got mad and stopped.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by james888

Not much to argue against in the first sentence. Just like anything digital, you can back it up to whatever extend you want. I am unsure of your meaning about belly up.

Worth is a matter of perspective and is different to each individual. If you knew more about bitcoin you might think differently. I gave phusius some more info and once he learned he wouldn't be making much mining bitcoins he was not interested. There are many benefits to bitcoins though, but none may interest you.

belly up means dead/bankrupt

[james888]

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

belly up means dead/bankrupt

Me and my sometimes incompetent communication skills...

I don't understand that part of your statement in relation to bitcoins

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

The only thing I regret with bit coins is not backing up my wallet.

Once I formatted and forgot to back it up, I got mad and stopped.

I am so sorry. That is always a risk. I stopped mining a long time ago although it is just as profitable for me. Mining can be a bit of a hassle to get it to work well and I just got tired of messing with it. I still have a some coins left that I hold onto in hopes that the price will one day rise and triple my money. It isn't much but it is low enough I am not afraid to lose it.

[james888]

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

The only thing I regret with bit coins is not backing up my wallet.

Once I formatted and forgot to back it up, I got mad and stopped.

I am so sorry. That is always a risk. One big difference between bitcoins and gold is that bitcoins can be destroyed and gold can not. I don't know how much you lost but you deflated

[Aquinus]

I'm still not convinced that bitcoin is nothing more than a fake currency that has no backing at all and only has a value because "people said so." I have a problem with that because it's like saying, "I'm going to use a fake credit card." It's "money" that came from nowhere and is honestly a bunch of generated numbers that are claimed to have some form of monetary value.

This is a pretty good article that describes how with bitcoin you only need one administrator to decide that bitcoins aren't worth enough to alter the value of the currency itself. You don't even need the federal reserve to do it, the bank can manipulate currency easier.

[xenocide]

Exactly what the article Aquinus posted.

[MT Alex]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

I'm still not convinced that bitcoin is nothing more than a fake currency that has no backing at all and only has a value because "people said so." I have a problem with that because it's like saying, "I'm going to use a fake credit card." It's "money" that came from nowhere and is honestly a bunch of generated numbers that are claimed to have some form of monetary value.

This is a pretty good article that describes how with bitcoin you only need one administrator to decide that bitcoins aren't worth enough to alter the value of the currency itself. You don't even need the federal reserve to do it, the bank can manipulate currency easier.

I don't think you have a firm grasp on how the Federal Reserve works. You know it's not Federal, right?

[james888]

Originally Posted by Aquinus

I'm still not convinced that bitcoin is nothing more than a fake currency that has no backing at all and only has a value because "people said so." I have a problem with that because it's like saying, "I'm going to use a fake credit card." It's "money" that came from nowhere and is honestly a bunch of generated numbers that are claimed to have some form of monetary value.

This is a pretty good article that describes how with bitcoin you only need one administrator to decide that bitcoins aren't worth enough to alter the value of the currency itself. You don't even need the federal reserve to do it, the bank can manipulate currency easier.

Currency is defined as "A system of money in general use in a particular country." Bitcoin is exactly that without the country. Bitcoin has no backing, but neither does the dollar if you take away the big brothers guns. Bitcoins value comes from two places. Its utility value and intrinsic value. You are completely right that bitcoins come from no where and are a bunch of numbers. If we so wanted we could anything, even buttons from our jackets, as a medium of exchange. The only way we can do that is if we both agree that buttons have value. Value really is a most subjective term.

About that article. I have no proof that is wrong or right but for now I will accept it as truth. It claims a bitcoin exchange operator was cheating and getting rich from it. That could happen and really would not surprise me if it did. The exchange operator did not speak english, or at least speak it well, so it could not of been one of the larger exchanges. Mtgox, the largest bitcoin exchange complies with both US and Japanese law. I don't use it because they will freeze your account if it you seem any bit suspicious or move a certain amount of money through them. I really try to avoid exchanges in general because I do not trust them. I try to buy and sell currency peer to peer. If I have to use an exchange I use campbx. That is me though. This cheater though can only go so far. That number that he changed was the ticker at the top saying what the last price sold for bitcoins were or maybe a weighted average. He could changed that number to $123 but no one would buy any coins. Certainly people would try to buy coins. The exchange btc-e was hacked once. The hackers set the value of bitcoins to $50. Did it work. No. No one bought any coins because the price was too high for them. A whole bunch of people including myself tried to sell at that price but couldn't. Btc-e then closed for a week or two to get itself working again. Point is, you can't set the price where you want it. You can only sell and buy at the prices others are willing to buy and sell for.

Bitcoins have no banks. Everyone is their own bank. Bitcoin is meant to be a break from our current flawed banking, monetary, and fiscal system. At least that is where most of the userbase has taken it.

I am just going to post this video here. It is a pro bitcoin person and a gold standard person arguing over the validity of bitcoins.

[3870x2]

How much could I earn a month with a 6850 and 7950?

[james888]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

How much could I earn a month with a 6850 and 7950?

Roughly $80 a month depending on difficulty and price of bitcoins/dollars. Bitcoin mining is not that profitable on the small scale anymore. I stopped mining because it is just a hassle to get it to work well. $60 a month for me is like paying for my gas each month. I might start mining again soon. There are other factors to stop someone from mining. The block reward is going to half in about a month. There are a lot of theories onto what might happen then. Most seem to think that the price will double from higher scarcity or mining will become entirely unprofitable.
Mining hardware comparisons
Profitability calculator

[Soup]

There are a lot of theories onto what might happen then. Most seem to think that the price will double from higher scarcity or mining will become entirely unprofitable.

I've read some assessments with the idea that the market value of bitcoins will stay about the same because while the amount of new bitcoins being generated will decrease, the overwhelming majority are already in circulation. There's not much in the way of precedent when it comes to bitcoins however; it's the grand open currency experiment.

I guess we'll see come December.

All I know is that I was seeing $300+ power bills and $250/month income...