Dell Can't Take Criticism

[Hood]

Below is a copy of a post I made on Dell's forum, which was banned by a moderator for unspecified reasons. Included is the email they sent me explaining that it was deleted, and my reply to Dell. Note that they threaten to ban me from Dell's website for life if I post their email on the site (apparently they are ashamed to admit their fascist attitudes regarding forum posts).

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Dell Community - Automated Email <Dell_Community_noreply@dell.com> wrote:
Your forum post was deleted by a moderator.

Subject: Re: DELL Dimension 4500 Clamshell Case Will it take Standard ATX?
Posted to: Desktop General Hardware Forum

Reason: Hello Hood6558, We are writing in reference to your post in the Dell Community. While we value your participation in the Dell Community, we have removed the post described above because it violates the Dell Community Terms of Use. You may remember that you agreed to abide by these Terms of Use when you registered with our website. If you would like to review the Terms of Use, you can find them at the following link: http://en.community.dell.com/content/TOU.aspx. We encourage you to edit your post to comply with the Terms of Use, and resubmit it. In order to assist you in reposting your message, we note that your post violates our Terms of Use for the following reason(s): Your post contains language that we believe to be harassing, unlawful, or otherwise objectionable. Use of such language violates the Terms of Service, and must be deleted in order to allow your post. Prohibited words and phrases include those in which certain letters have been replaced with alternate characters. Unlawful language may include any statements that might reasonably be interpreted as a violation of the intellectual property rights of any person, including a trademark, copyright or patent. For your convenience, a copy of the original post also appears at the end of this message. Please keep in mind that continued violations of the Terms of Use may cause you to lose your posting privileges. Thanks for cooperating and participating in the Dell Community. Sincerely, DTE44816 Dell Community Administration Services ______________________________________ This message is a private communication between the Dell Community and you and should not be posted to the message boards. Public posting of this message may result in immediate banning of your Dell Community account. COPY OF ORIGINAL POST Your post was submitted as a reply to the following thread: http://en.community.dell.com/thread/3902871.aspx __________________________________________________ ______ I have both the Dell Dimension 8300 and 8400 (same clamshell case), one being a socket 478 mobo and the other a socket 775. Both have Dell proprietary motherboards with non-standard screw patterns, fan headers, and front panel headers. I tried upgrading in these cases and it was basically no-go (it could be done with hacks but wasn't worth the trouble). For $40-$50 you can get a case that blows away the Dell in terms of airflow and noise control (that 6000 rpm Delta in my 8400 sounded like a shop-vac when it got going). I hate the stupid design anyway, bad airflow and no way to open side of case and leave it open where you can see what's going on inside, a PITA to change hardware. __________________________________________________ ______
Below is my reply to the Dell Moderator;
So you denied valuable information to one of your customers, because it was critical of one of your products? (NOT because it was offensive in any way), and then tell me you'll ban me from your forum if I tell any one what you said? That's censorship, my friend. You people should be ashamed of yourselves - I certainly don't need your censored forum, because it can't be relied upon to allow people to post accurate information, only what you people deem proper. Also, I sold all my Dell computers, and I'll never buy another one, or recommend one to a customer, so I have no use for your forum anyway. That being said, your forum is a colossal waste of time and money and should be banned from the internet for the good of people everywhere. Furthermore, since it's a free country, and there are thousands of forums to post on, what's to stop me from telling the whole world just how fascist your little forum really is. I'm an American who's tired of big companies who lie, cheat, and steal with the approval of government. Look to your future, Dell, if you have one - I hear things aren't going so great right now. By the way PITA is a bread that opens up like a clamshell, which makes it hard to put the ingredients inside, just like the Dell clamshell case.

So, did I over-react, or is Dell as bad a I think. Really, I have many, many other reasons to hate Dell, as a technician who has had to deal with their proprietary hardware for years. They always spec their own parts, not for exclusive performance, but only to make more money on upgrades and replacement parts. Pure unadulterated greed. Hurry up and go out of business, Dell, and make room for decent companies that sell good products.

[STCNE]

Old Dell was good, our Windows 95 machine is still running amazingly well for a machine that hasn't been at all serviced nor had Windows cleaned or reinstalled.

New Dell... from about 2000 on, well let's just say the Dell we got in 2003 was a problem from day 1. I was constantly having to fix one thing or another and it had piss-poor airflow. Running the computer during the summer you'd be lucky if you only saw one BSOD a day. The hard drive died in 2009, the monitor got yellower and foggier until it eventually went pop in 2011. The CRT from the 95' computer still runs and looks brand new. It also should be noted that for a period of around a year at my dad's work they were swapping out about 2-4 Dells a day.

Looking over the various Dells(HPs, Acers, etc.) on newegg you can tell they are bad. There is a reason these OEMs don't show pics of the insides of their computers, nor do they list half the parts they use in them. They put in the cheapest parts they can to make sure the computer will run for awhile at least and I've heard of them denying RMAs on dead PCs for people running programs 'too strenuous' on them.

And of course like Apple they rely heavily on their brand name and image. This is one of the reasons they make them in odd formats that prevent upgrading and repairing. A lot of people out there will just buy another one. They have their own following. They build it by offering discounts on their PCs to employees of big corporations. That's how they found their way into our home back in the 90s when a home PC was becoming something that everyone had.

It's a shame that they aren't what they were back then. I'm not sure how our old Dell compares to other computers of the time but it's built solidly and runs well. I guess it's part of the reason I use vintage electronics whenever possible. There was a different mindset back then with businesses and with the consumer. We went from repairing things when they broke and upgrading our electronics every 5-10 years to just tossing them when the next best thing came out(iphones are a good example). I'm only 19, but I'm ranting like an old man... sadface.

[Chevalr1c]

I cannot click the button, so let me thank you in writing STCNE.

Now I am able to. Must have been a quota thing.

[remixedcat]

The mod dates look like 2003 is this the right post or is it a redirected simalar post?

[Jetster]

Originally Posted by Hood

So, did I over-react, or is Dell as bad a I think. Really, I have many, many other reasons to hate Dell, as a technician who has had to deal with their proprietary hardware for years. They always spec their own parts, not for exclusive performance, but only to make more money on upgrades and replacement parts. Pure unadulterated greed. Hurry up and go out of business, Dell, and make room for decent companies that sell good products.

You over reacted, Dell has every right to and does exercise any method to increase profits. Its called Capitalism and free market. Proprietary parts does save money sometimes. They don't really want you fixing there stuff. Look at Apple, HP, the automotive industry, and many others.

They actually have stopped doing it as much. it just not profitable any longer with the drop in off the shelf parts. I would have banned you too. Its there forum and your trying to hurt there business So look at it as a challenge to mod their parts.

[xBruce88x]

Originally Posted by Chevalr1c

I cannot click the button, so let me thank you in writing STCNE.

refresh the page and you should be able to.

When I was a sys admin for a dealership a few years ago we also had problems with the newer Dell computers... namely their laser printers... damn fusers kept going out. Of course they were just rebranded Lexmark printers.

their slimline Optiplex desktops were always running too hot, though the full tower/mid tower Opties did pretty well. Even more so when I used a fanspeed app to manually set the fan speeds.

Yet, the most reliable ones there were the older XPS PII and PIII systems and the older Optiplex with the celerons in them, the socket 370s. I even took one home at one point and installed my 3DFX VooDoo IIs in it... Played Unreal 2K at 300fps with a celeron 450 and 128mb PC-133 ram.

@Jetster, they could have at least explained that to him rather than threatening to ban him... I think one statement at the end of his post would have made it somewhat ok... "however Dell does not recommend modding or using after-market parts" Even though they sometimes advertise their PCs as being easy to upgrade.

@OP... the last bullet is probably the one you ruffled their feathers over.

[Jetster]

Remember the old dell sticker "Never Obsolete"

That sticker became Obsolete

[STCNE]

Originally Posted by Jetster

You over reacted, Dell has every right to and does exercise any method to increase profits. Its called Capitalism and free market. Proprietary parts does save money sometimes. They don't really want you fixing there stuff. Look at Apple, HP, the automotive industry, and many others.

They actually have stopped doing it as much. it just not profitable any longer with the drop in off the shelf parts. I would have banned you too. Its there forum and your trying to hurt there business So look at it as a challenge to mod their parts.

Of course they have the right to do it, but withholding information on their product that will in no way hurt their product isn't exactly ethical. I'd say the OP of the topic in question would actually be more inclined to buy another Dell had he received that helpful information on their forum rather than if it had been withheld and he ended up with standard layout parts that won't fit his system. I also don't see how he violated the TOS especially considering how other similar posts in that thread don't seem to have bothered them.

Reminds me of a time back in school where the computer I was working on was acting up. The computer teacher opened it up and there was a CD laying on the motherboard. His comment was that "someone must have put their disc in the drive too fast". Really... how does that even happen? I could go on about their printers as well but they came for free with our computers and worked 'good enough' with a little fiddling every now and then so I'll hold back.

As you can tell, I'm pretty sour with Dell. Years worth of having to do school work on a PC that didn't always run, had a badly fogged up monitor, or flat out lost data off the drive while I was working on it. Having that plus all the stuff I went through with ATT and their internet made for some really stressful years in school.

[DaedalusHelios]

I feel Dell is a piece of shit for other reasons. They payed off local politicians in the NC triad area to give them a large enough tax break to build a distribution center. Then when the minimum time runs out on the contract they shut down that distribution and assembly area. It created jobs only to have people buy houses and start families in the area and then lose their jobs. Ruining people's lives in the name of the free market makes no difference morally. It is morally wrong to do that to local people and economies. Doing the wrong thing morally isn't the same as breaking the law. With power comes responsibility, and the responsibility of taking care of those you use for profit is a moral obligation as long as they met their moral obligation to be a good worker. If a company gets large enough they just get a politician to help them force out competition and collect corporate welfare. That isn't free market anyway, it is corporatism and that is what the USA has right now.

[Hood]

Originally Posted by Jetster

I would have banned you too. Its there forum and your trying to hurt there business So look at it as a challenge to mod their parts.

Actually, I did have to modify one of their clamshell cases, by cutting a 120mm hole in the side and adding a fan, to get some airflow, ANY airflow, to the GPU, as it was running at over 90c under load before the mod (about 75c after). Not an issue with the GT 6200 that originally came with the Dimension 8400, but my slightly better ATI HD 4670 was about to catch fire. Like the man said, they use the cheapest parts and designs without a thought to serviceability or longevity, so why am I wrong for dissing them on their website. They're laughing at their customers all the way to the bank, and treating them badly with every decision they make. And I'm supposed to respect that? Sadly, I'll still have to deal with their products when customers bring their dead Dell machines to me. Most of them can't afford upgrades, they just want what they already have to work properly. So I fix them, and tell my customers not to stress it too hard because the hardware and cooling "solution" can't handle gaming or video editing. I'll leave the Dell worship to those who have had good experiences with their Dells, if any.

[xBruce88x]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

I feel Dell is a piece of shit for other reasons. They payed off local politicians in the NC triad area to give them a large enough tax break to build a distribution center. Then when the minimum time runs out on the contract they shut down that distribution and assembly area. It created jobs only to have people buy houses and start families in the area and then lose their jobs. Ruining people's lives in the name of the free market makes no difference morally. It is morally wrong to do that to local people and economies. Doing the wrong thing morally isn't the same as breaking the law. With power comes responsibility, and the responsibility of taking care of those you use for profit is a moral obligation as long as they met their moral obligation to be a good worker. If a company gets large enough they just get a politician to help them force out competition and collect corporate welfare. That isn't free market anyway, it is corporatism and that is what the USA has.

They then moved that labor over to China... if I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by Jetster

Remember the old dell sticker "Never Obsolete"

That sticker became Obsolete

yea I remember that too.. was also on eMachines back in the day if I remember right. It was kinda like EVGA's step up program where you could trade up or something like that.

[Jetster]

As a buyer you need to take responsibility for the research you do when you buy a product. No one is twisting your arm. You have all the power. The Iphone is a perfect example. Its promotes sending jobs overseas and priority monopoly based tech. But people are sheep and do what is trendy. Your not a victim and the Obama not going to solve your problems.

Ok maybe the Never Obsolete sticker was E machines

[xBruce88x]

Pretty much why when I sell a computer I sell it AS-IS, though I offer free support for it for a while, to an extent.

[Hood]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

I feel Dell is a piece of shit for other reasons. They payed off local politicians in the NC triad area to give them a large enough tax break to build a distribution center. Then when the minimum time runs out on the contract they shut down that distribution and assembly area. It created jobs only to have people buy houses and start families in the area and then lose their jobs. Ruining people's lives in the name of the free market makes no difference morally. It is morally wrong to do that to local people and economies. Doing the wrong thing morally isn't the same as breaking the law. With power comes responsibility, and the responsibility of taking care of those you use for profit is a moral obligation as long as they met their moral obligation to be a good worker. If a company gets large enough they just get a politician to help them force out competition and collect corporate welfare. That isn't free market anyway, it is corporatism and that is what the USA has right now.

Hear, hear! I didn't know that about Dell, but it certainly fits their philosophy. I repeat, Hurry up and go out of business, Dell, and make room for decent companies that sell good products.

[AphexDreamer]

I'm a proud owner of never having owned a Dell product.

But my HP products have been just as bad. Lost a laptop because they failed to give it a proper heat sink now I have to get a new laptop and so many other HP laptops suffer from teh same common mistake their are tons of threads and youtubs video showing how to attempt to self repair.

So that is no dell and no HP for me.

The list is getting short...

[Hood]

Originally Posted by Jetster

Its called Capitalism and free market.

I disagree, it's not free trade or even Capitalism for that matter, when a company is given huge tax breaks to move their business to a community and then leaves when the breaks run out, and it's certainly not free trade when the central government props up failed businesses and banks. They fail because they deserve to fail, and when they get propped up, we all lose in the long run. That's corporatism, cronyism, or just plain corruption, despite the guilty wanting to soften it so as not to sound illegal, which it is (but nobody's preferring charges). Lawyers will always tap-dance their way around morality on the way to legal thievery, and politicians are all lawyers.

[mediasorcerer]

I have a 2 yr old dell laptop thats needs the bios flashed[due to there bios package messing it up!!!] and the dell forum basically told me forget fixing it, even tho it can be fixed, so im not that impressed with dell either frankly.

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Jetster

As a buyer you need to take responsibility for the research you do when you buy a product. No one is twisting your arm. You have all the power. The Iphone is a perfect example. Its promotes sending jobs overseas and priority monopoly based tech. But people are sheep and do what is trendy. Your not a victim and the Obama not going to solve your problems.

Ok maybe the Never Obsolete sticker was E machines

Where do you think Obama has anything to do with it? Sounds like you to are trying to blame your problems on "Obama the scapegoat of all things deemed bad by conservatives". Much of Obama's policies were republican views before the conservatives had to switch to the other side of a viewpoint just to differentiate themselves. If you have any honest knowledge of what a real free market is, and you like it, then you would be supporting Gary Johnson or Ron Paul. They understand what a free market is at least. Don't inject politics into your arguments as this forum is not set up for it. I simply had to respond to your Obama reference which missed the boat completely.

Just for clarification: I never worked for Dell. I just hate to see people lose everything because I actually care about people.

[95Viper]

Those sites, that are part of the corporate mind, are not being fascist... they just can't deal with a post that defies their reality.
Same, as, when you speak to them on the phone. They get all flabbergasted when they are not allowed to follow their scripted screed.

Is it poor customer relations? IMO, yes, and probably felt the same by many.
Will you change them? IMO, I doubt it.
You may or may not get an apology; and if you did, it would be hollow.

Every site that is run or operated by those types does the same.
There are a few exceptions that I have personally seen; but, it is just a few.

Did you do right? Ask yourself... Did it make you feel better? You may get your answer to the first question from the second question.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by Jetster

As a buyer you need to take responsibility for the research you do when you buy a product. No one is twisting your arm. You have all the power. The Iphone is a perfect example. Its promotes sending jobs overseas and priority monopoly based tech. But people are sheep and do what is trendy. Your not a victim and the Obama not going to solve your problems.

Ok maybe the Never Obsolete sticker was E machines

I know right, those Samsung Galaxy owners are using phones made by children. What scum!

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

I know right, those Samsung Galaxy owners are using phones made by children. What scum!

Nothing is wrong with outsourcing labor in most situations. The issue is with abusing local governments through corruption and then screwing over the local people while you are at it.

On another note: How are you going to enjoy your 16oz limit?

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Nothing is wrong with outsourcing labor in most situations. The issue is with abusing local governments through corruption and then screwing over the local people while you are at it.

On another note: How are you going to enjoy your 16oz limit?

It doesn't matter, I don't buy drinks from locations that don't offer free refills, so size doesn't matter.

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

It doesn't matter, I don't buy drinks from locations that don't offer free refills, so size doesn't matter.

I was hoping to hear that nobody would enforce it.

[kiddagoat]

I dunno maybe it is just me but I realize that while Hood is a new member to our community here.... it seems that with every post of theirs I read, it is always criticizing or bashing some tech company and/or their products. I value that everyone has an opinion but it appears as though this person might become a troll in one way or another....

In regards to the Dell forum thing, they had every right to ban you. It is just common sense not to goto a manufacturer's website and bash their products, it just doesn't fly. Let alone for the average consumer which normally uses Dell's site for support is not going to take the time nor have the know how to rebuild an entire tower. Let alone mod on for the proprietary components.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

I was hoping to hear that nobody would enforce it.

Oh, it hasn't taken effect yet, that comes 3/2013. I actually just bought a 32oz Slurpee at 7-Eleven.