Elder Scrolls Online

[vawrvawerawe]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

Don't forget the only reason to do this is the subscription route, they want to make money like WoW, who makes more a month than all titles on the PC combined (no source, asshole talking here)

Either that, or they might try microtransactions.

I don't disagree with the subscription route, as maintaining a MMO requires a lot of work, and sometimes I wonder how GW2 gets along without it.

I won't ever pay for an MMO

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

This has raid parties and isn't an FPS.

Man, I'm so glad you are posting in here with that depth of knowledge you got on the subject of MMO's. MM, you broke the code man. Hate to break it to you, there were MMO's before WoW that had raids and were not FPS titles. So if those are your two criteria for a clone, then you might want to go with something old, like AO or EQ clone, not WoW. I like simplicity, it makes the dumbest arguments sound intelligent... (sarcasm in case that was missed).

Originally Posted by 3870x2

TL: DR, but I can tell by the length of the post that I probably upset you. Didn't mean to offend, only to provide correlation between you and the excellently drawn picture.

I am ok with all of the companies throwing money down the drain trying to achieve the success that wow had by copy and pasting, and have even enjoyed RIFT for some time, but when I heard about ES:MMO, I was very, very excited to get Skyrim with 1000 other players.

I am not getting Skyrim with 1000 other players, thus my distaste. Hell even 64 players per area would be great.

I wasn't upset about really anything you said. I don't mind someone actually putting a thought process into a post and coming up with some solid reasons why they don't like something, like you have since this post. Just lately it seems like so many people are bashing in threads, and just throwing shit around, with no real reasoning behind it, like MM up above, worse definition for a clone I have ever heard.

It's hard to say how close this will resemble Skyrim, it doesn't honestly sound that far off. Being able to chose your armor and weapon type and mix or match, is basically how Skyrim is, no preset classes. Beyond that there just isn't enough information to really go off of.

Originally Posted by 3870x2

WoW is an instant classic, I would love to put that back in 15 years from now and bang out a few hours, it was so much fun to play.

Sounds odd huh? That is our current 'MMO paradigm'.

I don't think it sounds all that odd. I had some great moments in Vanilla WoW. I will talk about those for years, still talk about them with friends. I had so much fun back then, but expansion pack after expansion, the fun was just gone, those days won't be remembered so much.

Originally Posted by LAN_deRf_HA

Give us a real engine, with real free motion combat like every other decent game for the past decade. That's what had people excited for the idea of this game, and that's why there was a universal scream of agony when the world found out it was some shit tier wow mmo not even done by the Bethesda team. If you're getting excited about this I hope you enjoy disappointment, or at the least can still play wow with a straight face.

It's funny you bash the engine, when thats what people have been saying about the ES and Fallout Series for a few years now, give us a real engine. You list that as a downfall, like it being an MMO is what caused this, when we are an un-optimized ancient engine behind Skyrim. You say those tree's a low poly, how that makes me laugh, you must have never looked at vanilla Skyrim birch trees huh?

As far as the combat, what exactly is known about it? Do you have inside information? The most I have heard is left click is attack and right click is block, which is just how Skryim works. So thats two points you brought up that you say are shit that are the same as Skyrim (engine and combat).

Originally Posted by 3870x2

I don't disagree with the subscription route, as maintaining a MMO requires a lot of work, and sometimes I wonder how GW2 gets along without it.

GW2 lives off the Gem Store of course. Character Expansion Slots, Bank Slots, XP Boosts, and a bunch of other things. Crafting in that game without that store to make good items I hear is pretty hard. I bought it, but got tired of playing it within about a week.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Man, I'm so glad you are posting in here with that depth of knowledge you got on the subject of MMO's. MM, you broke the code man. Hate to break it to you, there were MMO's before WoW that had raids and were not FPS titles. So if those are your two criteria for a clone, then you might want to go with something old, like AO or EQ clone, not WoW. I like simplicity, it makes the dumbest arguments sound intelligent... (sarcasm in case that was missed).



I wasn't upset about really anything you said. I don't mind someone actually putting a thought process into a post and coming up with some solid reasons why they don't like something, like you have since this post. Just lately it seems like so many people are bashing in threads, and just throwing shit around, with no real reasoning behind it, like MM up above, worse definition for a clone I have ever heard.

It's hard to say how close this will resemble Skyrim, it doesn't honestly sound that far off. Being able to chose your armor and weapon type and mix or match, is basically how Skyrim is, no preset classes. Beyond that there just isn't enough information to really go off of.



I don't think it sounds all that odd. I had some great moments in Vanilla WoW. I will talk about those for years, still talk about them with friends. I had so much fun back then, but expansion pack after expansion, the fun was just gone, those days won't be remembered so much.



It's funny you bash the engine, when thats what people have been saying about the ES and Fallout Series for a few years now, give us a real engine. You list that as a downfall, like it being an MMO is what caused this, when we are an un-optimized ancient engine behind Skyrim. You say those tree's a low poly, how that makes me laugh, you must have never looked at vanilla Skyrim birch trees huh?

As far as the combat, what exactly is known about it? Do you have inside information? The most I have heard is left click is attack and right click is block, which is just how Skryim works. So thats two points you brought up that you say are shit that are the same as Skyrim (engine and combat).



GW2 lives off the Gem Store of course. Character Expansion Slots, Bank Slots, XP Boosts, and a bunch of other things. Crafting in that game without that store to make good items I hear is pretty hard. I bought it, but got tired of playing it within about a week.

Yeah just like Diablo 3 was just like the other ones. Please man its a clone. Skyrim was an FPS. This is not. ITS A CLONE NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY AND JUSTIFY IT.

If it was an open FPS with real players you would have an argument.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Yeah just like Diablo 3 was just like the other ones. Please man its a clone. Skyrim was an FPS. This is not. ITS A CLONE NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY AND JUSTIFY IT.

If it was an open FPS with real players you would have an argument.

I see where you are going with the FPS term. But if you aren't using a bow, its more like an FPRPG.

I have been given a guest invite to GW2 from Arciks, its kinda going slow but I am going to give it this weekend to see if I enjoy it. I am not totally against this model, but they can do so much better if they stop trying to be the same.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Yeah just like Diablo 3 was just like the other ones. Please man its a clone. Skyrim was an FPS. This is not. ITS A CLONE NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY AND JUSTIFY IT.

If it was an open FPS with real players you would have an argument.

Camera orientation doesn't make it a clone, I'm sorry MM your wrong, and you seem to be knowledge-less on this genre. Some of the other guys like 3870x2 might post somethings they dislike, but they actually post up a bit more detail than "it has a different camera perspective for your character". By your standard, the best sim racing games out there are FPS clones, simply because you are in First Person. Also notice, your say FPS, not FP, you saying unless an MMO is a Shooter (thats what S stands for) then it's a clone?

Please troll elsewhere, honestly, your posts are patheticly obvious. Lets some constructive conversations happen about this game/genre come from people who actually play them.

The sum total of a game is far more than the camera orientation.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Camera orientation doesn't make it a clone, I'm sorry MM your wrong, and you seem to be knowledge-less on this genre. Some of the other guys like 3870x2 might post somethings they dislike, but they actually post up a bit more detail than "it has a different camera perspective for your character". By your standard, the best sim racing games out there are FPS clones, simply because you are in First Person. Also notice, your say FPS, not FP, you saying unless an MMO is a Shooter (thats what S stands for) then it's a clone?

Please troll elsewhere, honestly, your posts are patheticly obvious. Lets some constructive conversations happen about this game/genre come from people who actually play them.

The sum total of a game is far more than the camera orientation.

If I don't agree with you and give you a very valid reason why its a clone I'm a troll. If your argument is so shallow that you have to start name calling to feel empowered feel free. Skyrim was an FPS......because I shot fireballs so I can call it an FPS. IT WAS FIRST PERSON. This has organized raids in third person view. That's not what ANY of the popular Marrowwinds were. Its a clone Kurgan. Call me all the names you want but it doesn't change the fact its a clone. Deal with it.

[3870x2]

The action in the videos does look hilariously automated, like some kid in community college for game design had his way with it.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Text

I know you're just waiting for me to chip in.

But seriously, that video wasn't very interesting to me. Felt like a souped up WoW, which could be great, but it could also be "meh". Mostly I got burned by ToR so I'm not excited about MMO's anymore (Otherland being the exception). Or I could be, but I find it hard to be that. They are a difficult beast to master. As he says in the beginning: Bring TES fans and MMO players together. That is a pretty huge undertaking. In my eyes ToR was trying to do the same (with with Star Wars and MMO players) and kinda failed. I don't see why these folks will succeed.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Frick

I know you're just waiting for me to chip in.

But seriously, that video wasn't very interesting to me. Felt like a souped up WoW, which could be great, but it could also be "meh". Mostly I got burned by ToR so I'm not excited about MMO's anymore (Otherland being the exception). Or I could be, but I find it hard to be that. They are a difficult beast to master. As he says in the beginning: Bring TES fans and MMO players together. That is a pretty huge undertaking. In my eyes ToR was trying to do the same (with with Star Wars and MMO players) and kinda failed. I don't see why these folks will succeed.

Looks like the decision is unanimous. Lets let Zenimax know so they can shut this project down.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

Looks like the decision is unanimous. Lets let Zenimax know so they can shut this project down.

I said it could be great. It has the potential for sure. But if everyone else has failed (in becoming the Next Big MMO), why should these succeed? Even the combination Star Wars + Bioware "failed".

BTW, I think Kurgan and TMM are talking about different things.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

If I don't agree with you and give you a very valid reason why its a clone I'm a troll. If your argument is so shallow that you have to start name calling to feel empowered feel free. Skyrim was an FPS......because I shot fireballs so I can call it an FPS. IT WAS FIRST PERSON. This has organized raids in third person view. That's not what ANY of the popular Marrowwinds were. Its a clone Kurgan. Call me all the names you want but it doesn't change the fact its a clone. Deal with it.

You didn't give a valid reason. Sharing a camera angle doesn't make a game a clone. The only name I called you was a troll, a name you have called yourself many times, and you are proud of. And sorry, but if you troll so much, don't expect anyone to ever take you seriously, or to know when you are serious, thats a problem you created, not me, so don't complain about it.

Sorry, but far more things need to be shared to make a game a clone, and you seem to be lacking the knowledge on the MMO field. Maybe if you brought up talent trees, crafting, arenas, or so many other things that actually consist of GAMEPLAY, then I would have an ear to listen with. But there is no substance there.

Originally Posted by Frick

I know you're just waiting for me to chip in.

But seriously, that video wasn't very interesting to me. Felt like a souped up WoW, which could be great, but it could also be "meh". Mostly I got burned by ToR so I'm not excited about MMO's anymore (Otherland being the exception). Or I could be, but I find it hard to be that. They are a difficult beast to master. As he says in the beginning: Bring TES fans and MMO players together. That is a pretty huge undertaking. In my eyes ToR was trying to do the same (with with Star Wars and MMO players) and kinda failed. I don't see why these folks will succeed.

I don't mind anyone talking, I know you've got some MMO experience, and can actually bring a valid opinion to the table, and even though the video didn't impress you, you explained why and have valid points. I've played many a MMO and been "burned", but I've usually got my money out of each of them if I can get 50 - 100 hours out of a game, I'm usually very happy with that. And yes, making a great MMO is such a massive and hard to do task. I like some of the things I've seen here, some will no doubt be taken from other MMO's (as with any genre, don't fix what isn't broken). But the attack system seems like a nice change, how you build your class does as well, mega server is nice, and 100 or so on screen could make for some epic pvp. The thing that really has my eye is open ended classes, if you can really wear robes + sword and shield, make a ccleric type class, then someone else could be heavy armor + sword and shield, and be more like a tank type paladin, similar, but very different. If they can make something that dynamic, it will be great.

TOR didn't really try for the samething, everything is hotkeyed, 3 talent trees, holy trinity, sharded servers (if you read this MM, those are what make a clone, actual gameplay elements). The only real thing they stuck their neck out on was voice acting (which was amazing), and the crafting was a bit different. This sound s much more open on classes and the single server should be awesome. Not too much info, but breaking the completely hotkeys attacks and giving an actual block is a difference and much more open classes with 1 single server, all good things in my mind that make it standout from the WoW shadow.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

You didn't give a valid reason. Sharing a camera angle doesn't make a game a clone. The only name I called you was a troll, a name you have called yourself many times, and you are proud of. And sorry, but if you troll so much, don't expect anyone to ever take you seriously, or to know when you are serious, thats a problem you created, not me, so don't complain about it.

Sorry, but far more things need to be shared to make a game a clone, and you seem to be lacking the knowledge on the MMO field. Maybe if you brought up talent trees, crafting, arenas, or so many other things that actually consist of GAMEPLAY, then I would have an ear to listen with. But there is no substance there.



I don't mind anyone talking, I know you've got some MMO experience, and can actually bring a valid opinion to the table, and even though the video didn't impress you, you explained why and have valid points. I've played many a MMO and been "burned", but I've usually got my money out of each of them if I can get 50 - 100 hours out of a game, I'm usually very happy with that. And yes, making a great MMO is such a massive and hard to do task. I like some of the things I've seen here, some will no doubt be taken from other MMO's (as with any genre, don't fix what isn't broken). But the attack system seems like a nice change, how you build your class does as well, mega server is nice, and 100 or so on screen could make for some epic pvp. The thing that really has my eye is open ended classes, if you can really wear robes + sword and shield, make a ccleric type class, then someone else could be heavy armor + sword and shield, and be more like a tank type paladin, similar, but very different. If they can make something that dynamic, it will be great.

TOR didn't really try for the samething, everything is hotkeyed, 3 talent trees, holy trinity, sharded servers (if you read this MM, those are what make a clone, actual gameplay elements). The only real thing they stuck their neck out on was voice acting (which was amazing), and the crafting was a bit different. This sound s much more open on classes and the single server should be awesome. Not too much info, but breaking the completely hotkeys attacks and giving an actual block is a difference and much more open classes with 1 single server, all good things in my mind that make it standout from the WoW shadow.

When this game flops like all the other WoW CLONES Ill expect an apology.

[3870x2]

MM, like myself and frick, are all talking about the Macro angle, the big picture, not the individual elements. We are talking about the type of game, not what is in each type of game.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

When this game flops like all the other WoW CLONES Ill expect an apology.

For what, sharing a camera angle? If you actually had more knowledge on the subject, and named some other gameplay elements and were correct on them, I would have no problem with that. But that camera angle existed before WoW, as did the genre, please MM, this seriously has to be a joke...

Originally Posted by 3870x2

MM, like myself and frick, are all talking about the Macro angle, the big picture, not the individual elements. We are talking about the type of game, not what is in each type of game.

I know what you and Frick are talking about, and it's speculation, as is much info, it's just hard to damn a game on any of it. If they stick to their guns and deliver whats said in the video, it should be a fresh view on the MMO world. I know what fears people have, but they have new concept ideas. And you and Frick have at least voiced a real opinion, have knowledge of the MMO genre. I'm not going to tag MM in with what you and Frick have said, he's damning a game and calling it a clone based on a camera perspective, he hasn't extended his knowledge of MMO's farther beyond that.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

For what, sharing a camera angle? If you actually had more knowledge on the subject, and named some other gameplay elements and were correct on them, I would have no problem with that. But that camera angle existed before WoW, as did the genre, please MM, this seriously has to be a joke...



I know what you and Frick are talking about, and it's speculation, as is much info, it's just hard to damn a game on any of it. If they stick to their guns and deliver whats said in the video, it should be a fresh view on the MMO world. I know what fears people have, but they have new concept ideas. And you and Frick have at least voiced a real opinion, have knowledge of the MMO genre. I'm not going to tag MM in with what you and Frick have said, he's damning a game and calling it a clone based on a camera perspective, he hasn't extended his knowledge of MMO's farther beyond that.

From what I see, they might deliver something fresh in the WoW world, but not in the MMO world.

I wish WoW would patent that shit system so that no one else can use it. The patent office will patent just about anything for the right amount of money (apple).

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

For what, sharing a camera angle? If you actually had more knowledge on the subject, and named some other gameplay elements and were correct on them, I would have no problem with that. But that camera angle existed before WoW, as did the genre, please MM, this seriously has to be a joke...



I know what you and Frick are talking about, and it's speculation, as is much info, it's just hard to damn a game on any of it. If they stick to their guns and deliver whats said in the video, it should be a fresh view on the MMO world. I know what fears people have, but they have new concept ideas. And you and Frick have at least voiced a real opinion, have knowledge of the MMO genre. I'm not going to tag MM in with what you and Frick have said, he's damning a game and calling it a clone based on a camera perspective, he hasn't extended his knowledge of MMO's farther beyond that.

A Skyrim MMO should basically be a multiplayer Skyrim with a constant persistent real world evolving. Instead we get the same old tired tier platform stuck in a third person. Only difference is its right-left click action instead of macro timed based attacks. ITS A FUCKING CLONE Kurgan.

[Guitarrassdeamor]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

A Skyrim MMO should basically be a multiplayer Skyrim with a constant persistent real world evolving. Instead we get the same old tired tier platform stuck in a third person. Only difference is its right-left click action instead of macro timed based attacks. ITS A FUCKING CLONE Kurgan.

The guy also thinks The War Z is a completely different and revolutionary game from DayZ, so...

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by Guitarrassdeamor

The guy also thinks The War Z is a completely different and revolutionary game from DayZ, so...

There is no way Kurgan thinks that.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Guitarrassdeamor

The guy also thinks The War Z is a completely different and revolutionary game from DayZ, so...

That is not possible. You can see right there that they both have Z in the name!!!1one!1

[Mathragh]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

A Skyrim MMO should basically be a multiplayer Skyrim with a constant persistent real world evolving. Instead we get the same old tired tier platform stuck in a third person. Only difference is its right-left click action instead of macro timed based attacks. ITS A FUCKING CLONE Kurgan.

In my opioning(if anyone cares), this game uptill now, still has the potential to be what both of the camps here think(or fear/hope) it will be.

Currently, all the stuff they showed us indeed looks kinda classic in MMO terms.... if you only go by the first impressions. They indeed use a 3rd person view, and the few screenies we've seen from battles/group encounters could indeed mean that it will be as "shallow/stereotype" as most of the MMO's were in the past/present.

On the other hand, if you look and listen more closely, you'll notice that they're actually mentioning that they're trying really hard NOT to be like the classic MMO's we've got today. That, together with all the lore/history the elder scrolls games have, makes for a potentially quite different type of MMO than we've had uptill now. (Off course you could say the same for things like star wars, but the point still holds)

In the end, I guess we can only wait untill the game gets closer to completion, and perhaps with a bigger part of the game being done soon, we'll know more.

I personally still like to keep my hopes up, but then again, I'm one of those people that believed AMD could still pull some kind of rabbit out of its hat with bulldozer

[3870x2]

From what I see in the video, and if the battles can be fought with macros, it is a wow clone. It is fully transparent that they are in it for the subscription money.

It is too bad the software engineers have to waste their time on this.

Edited: to be more comprehensive in my conveyance.

[Mathragh]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

If the battles can be fought with macros, it is a wow clone.

The video I linked earlier mentions a hotbar with just 5 abilities.
I dont think Macro's will be of much use with just 5 abilities.

[3870x2]

I like how in most MMOs (WoW, Rift, and most others) if the enemy is more than 3 levels above your hero, the game will automatically reduce your damage, make you miss automatically, and sometimes make you take more damage. The results of these are actually penalties, and have nothing to do with the regular number calculations based on stats.

This is to keep the sheeple in their pens.

This is also just one good example of why I want different. God forbid if you think of something the others haven't, it must be an exploit and immediately patched.

[Mathragh]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

I like how in most MMOs (WoW, Rift, and most others) if the enemy is more than 3 levels above your hero, the game will automatically reduce your damage, make you miss automatically, and sometimes make you take more damage. The results of these are actually penalties, and have nothing to do with the regular number calculations based on stats.

This is to keep the sheeple in their pens.

This is also just one good example of why I want different.

The official video also mentioned that they're implementing a system with which everyone can participate in PVP on any lvl, and that your lvl wont matter when fighting against other players.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Mathragh

The official video also mentioned that they're implementing a system with which everyone can participate in PVP on any lvl, and that your lvl wont matter when fighting against other players.

Thank you for this tragic news. In order to PVP, your character will be altered to fit.