LA lawyer files suit against Microsoft over Surface storage capacity

[lZKoce]

Originally Posted by Velvet Wafer

well, applause for that lawyer guy, that is what MS is getting for not beeing honest and assholes... doesnt matter if Apple or MS, big companies need to get sued, all that money in one place can only mean greed, asshattery and dishonesty. i hope he wins and gets as much as possible... this is only a small step towards a world where Corporations are loosing more and more power, but at least it is one.
Every free person needs to understand, that every major company, would gladly sell the dried remains of your whole family, if they could just make a little profit with it, without getting caught... dont trust people that could easily buy and get and do everything they need,and want to do, wheter legal or illegal

Why would a big company necessarily be dishonest and greedy if it is successful? The way I see it, it is a company. It is made to be an economic enterprise. It's not a charitable foundation, it is supposed to be earning money. Is your boss unethical when he pays you the salary? Calling all the Transnational Corporations evil and thursty for money corsairs, that's a bold statement in my opinion. They may or may not be like that. Microsoft, are not godlike you know. In Denmark they got reminded of that fact when 25 000 hospitals started using LibreOffice instead of MS Office. That's some 7.7 million dollars of licences not going in their pocket. Imagine more people and countries doing the same.

[Velvet Wafer]

Originally Posted by lZKoce

Why would a big company necessarily be dishonest and greedy if it is successful? The way I see it, it is a company. It is made to be an economic enterprise. It's not a charitable foundation, it is supposed to be earning money. Is your boss unethical when he pays you the salary? Calling all the Transnational Corporations evil and thursty for money corsairs, that's a bold statement in my opinion. They may or may not be like that. Microsoft, are not godlike you know. In Denmark they got reminded of that fact when 25 000 hospitals started using LibreOffice instead of MS Office. That's some 7.7 million dollars of licences not going in their pocket. Imagine more people and countries doing the same.

First Part:

Dont believe me, till they get to your anal entry and ra*e it...its a well known fact that evil people strife for power, money and control...besides the fact, you most probably know what kinda world we are living in.... go figure?

Second Part:

good thing, another step in the direction of freedom! my respect to that thoughtful danes!
useful,working, free software is always a great thing!

and, additionally.... when money was made to make trade for people easier, why are there such gigantic profit spans involved there, and only for a small fraction of people?
the only thing that keeps their wealth beeing taken from them, are the authorities that they pay. i wouldnt bet on this working forever
How do they say? Power and Money can corrupt a person, no matter how good the intentions are at first.

[Depth]

Originally Posted by Frick

Not even remotely the same thing. Also, if you're seeing only 10 GB I think you might have a problem.

I paid for 12 but I only have 10 available
GRRRRRR

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Depth

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/at...1&d=1353322369

I paid for 12 but I only have 10 available
GRRRRRR

Oh you mean that. Still not the same thing.

[Velvet Wafer]

Originally Posted by Depth

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/at...1&d=1353322369

I paid for 12 but I only have 10 available
GRRRRRR

argumentless argument... err.. irrelevant?

Originally Posted by Frick

Oh you mean that. Still not the same thing.

by far not...ram use is very different from user scheme to user scheme... dont be that kind to him, just tell the facts... spoon feeding doesnt help most people and in opposite, rather provokes more unqualified answers

[Psychoholic]

This is from my MS surface disk mgmt.

IMO its kinda stupid to half roughly half the advertised space available but not a huge deal with the sd slot.

[Depth]

Originally Posted by Frick

Oh you mean that. Still not the same thing.

Same principle. I just find it absolutely rediculous to sue because an OS requires a lot of storage. Couldn't I then also sue Microsoft for Windows using a lot of memory?

How did he fill 16GB with "some music and Word files" anyway?

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Velvet Wafer

dont be that kind to him, just tell the facts... spoon feeding doesnt help most people and in opposite, rather provokes more unqualified answers

I agree but I kinda knew he knew what it was.

@depth: I see your point, and yeah it is redicilous. On the other hand a lot of people see 32GB and think they will get 32GB. I have kinda assumed you get 32GB of storage (before I thought about it) in the past so I think a lot of people get upset about it. I'm just guessing though, I have never really talked to anyone about it.

[KainXS]

If he wins someone should sue lays about how bags of chips are not even half way full 99% of the time -_-

[DaveK]

I still can't believe this is happening. I hope he loses. Will he have to pay the winner's court fees? I'm pretty sure they do that in Europe.

Originally Posted by KainXS

If he wins someone should sue lays about how bags of chips are not even half way full 99% of the time -_-

The bags are only half full so there's enough air in them to protect the chips. That's what someone said anyway. I'd prefer a full bag of chips instead of air and for someone to handle them properly so they wouldn't get smashed...

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Frick

On the other hand a lot of people see 32GB and think they will get 32GB. I have kinda assumed you get 32GB of storage

Most places where I see the Surface for sale or advertised, it claims is has 32gb's of storage. MS screwed up in their marketing. They should claim it has a 32gb HDD/SSD.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by erocker

Most places where I see the Surface for sale or advertised, it claims is has 32gb's of storage. MS screwed up in their marketing. They should claim it has a 32gb HDD/SSD.

Yep, just a matter of MS using improper wording, and the lawyer knows it. Frankly, I'm in full support of this suit, since this should be stipulated in product marketing, in my opinion.


Like, look... everyone HERE knows how this works.. but does your mom, you grandpa, or your aunt Gertie living down south? Probably not.

This suit can ensure that product marketing and labeling is clear, concise, and leaves no question to be asked. It's not right to assume that consumers will have the education on electronics to know these things.

32Gb of STORAGE....is STORAGE. That word, in English, implies that that is OPEN space capable of holding that amount of data, but that space will NEVER be open with a working Surface tablet, since it's occupied by the OS and other things. For computing, storage has an alternate definition, and most English-speaking-non-tech-types aren't going to know the difference. Frankly, the judge probably won't, either.

I mean really, you all understand this anyway, so I don't see why anyone here really has any issue with this.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by erocker

Most places where I see the Surface for sale or advertised, it claims is has 32gb's of storage. MS screwed up in their marketing. They should claim it has a 32gb HDD/SSD.

This.

It will be settled out of court, with Microsoft covering the court fees and changing their marketing. They might also provide recompense for those who have already purchased the tablets.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Yep, just a matter of MS using improper wording, and the lawyer knows it. Frankly, I'm in full support of this suit, since this should be stipulated in product marketing, in my opinion.


Like, look... everyone HERE knows how this works.. but does your mom, you grandpa, or your aunt Gertie living down south? Probably not.

This suit can ensure that product marketing and labeling is clear, concise, and leaves no question to be asked. It's not right to assume that consumers will have the education on electronics to know these things.

32Gb of STORAGE....is STORAGE. That word, in English, implies that that is OPEN space capable of holding that amount of data, but that space will NEVER be open with a working Surface tablet, since it's occupied by the OS and other things. For computing, storage has an alternate definition, and most English-speaking-non-tech-types aren't going to know the difference. Frankly, the judge probably won't, either.

I mean really, you all understand this anyway, so I don't see why anyone here really has any issue with this.

They never said open storage

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

storage
(Or "memory") A device into which data can be entered, in which it can be held, and from which it can be retrieved at a later time. The distinguishing characteristics of a device are its capacity (the number of bytes it can hold), its access speed, whether it is volatile (loses data when the power is turned off), removeable and/or writeable. Common examples are DRAM, hard disk, CD-ROM, Flash memory.
(2009-02-23)

32GB of storage space never implies that there is 32GB open merely that there is a total of 32GB of space.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by cdawall

They never said open storage



32GB of storage space never implies that there is 32GB open merely that there is a total of 32GB of space.

Your thoughts don't apply, since you know about tech. I agree, truly, I do, but most "normal" people will have no clue. Compute and English definitions of the word are not the same. This is what the lawyer will argue, I can pretty much guarantee.

You see, that's what law is all about, is interpretation of the words provided...the judge's interpretation. He'll argue that it should be interpreted as natural English. The defense will argue it should be interpreted as "Compute" definition.

He'll also argue the definition of "space", too.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Your thoughts don't apply, since you know about tech. I agree, truly, I do, but most "normal" people will have no clue. Compute and English definitions of the word are not the same. This is what the lawyer will argue, I can pretty much guarantee.

You see, that's what law is all about, is interpretation of the words provided...the judge's interpretation. He'll argue that it should be interpreted as natural English. The defense will argue it should be interpreted as "Compute" definition.

He'll also argue the definition of "space", too.

I know..like I said if this goes through I am going in on it too. Samsung, Motorola and LG are on my list as they advertise their phones the exact same way. Weird thing is this chuckle head is the first person to argue something has been this way since before his tablet even existed as a thought in a designers head.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by cdawall

I know..like I said if this goes through I am going in on it too. Samsung, Motorola and LG are on my list as they advertise their phones the exact same way. Weird thing is this chuckle head is the first person to argue something has been this way since before his tablet even existed as a thought in a designers head.

True enough, but now that more regular users are buying tech like this, it becomes important now that issues like this are very carefully handled.

I mean, all this is going to do is make sure that the "rules" for things like this are out in the open. I mean, that's why this is in the press in the first place. It's about consumer education, not really dude trying to make a buck.


The industry itself has to be accountable, this is one of the many ways they can be accountable, easily.

[Darkleoco]

This is an easy win for the lawyer honestly. Even to someone who is nearly technologically illiterate they will most likely associate a 32gb windows tablet with a 32gb Android or IOS tablet where you will still have the majority of the advertised amount of space available for you. Also the market segment it is makes the situation even worse because a "32gb" surface tablet is the same price as a 16gb ipad or competing android tablet which can lure in potential buyers who are unaware of the ridiculous amount of space taken up by the operating system.
Also I highly doubt the majority of technologically literate would guess that half the space is occupied.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by Darkleoco

Also I highly doubt the majority of technologically literate would guess that half the space is occupied.

Actually it's well known, esp among the "technologically literate" that W8 takes upwards 20GB or more of space and it's RT variant at least half that.

[Darkleoco]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Actually it's well known, esp among the "technologically literate" that W8 takes upwards 20GB or more of space and it's RT variant at least half that.

It seems to me you are using well known rather subjectively
Obviously most know the desktop space requirements of W8 however most would assume that a tablet that supposedly should compete with the high-end android tablets and the iPad would at least more accurately portray its available space when placed in a market segment where it is "offering" double the space for the same price when you are really not getting anything more.
In all honesty however the marketing of the surface is most detrimental to those who are older and less likely to see any difference besides storage capacity.

Perhaps using "technoligically literate" was not the right way to express what I meant and is subjective as well however everyone also views that statement differently.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Actually it's well known, esp among the "technologically literate" that W8 takes upwards 20GB or more of space and it's RT variant at least half that.

Sure, but the example I like to use for this is cars...a trunk has X-number of cubic feet of storage space. If a seat occupies that space, something that is crucial to the operation of the car(while carrying passengers), then the space the seat occupies is not listed. Only open space is. Or, if it's folding seat, they list it, but have to also lsit that there is a caveat there.

You rent a 400 cubic foot storage locker, rated for 400 cubic feet of storage, you get 400 cubic feet of OPEN space.

You buy a PC with a 500GB HDD, you get far less than that for storage space.

See, PC's aren't listed as having "STORAGE SPACE", they are listed as having such and such space on their HDD, or SSD.

That is how MS screwed up.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Actually it's well known, esp among the "technologically literate" that W8 takes upwards 20GB or more of space and it's RT variant at least half that.

W8 does not take up to 20GB of space, that is only the recommended size.

The actual install is less than 10GB, where the minimum requirement is actually 16GB.

They just have a hole lot of bloatware on RT.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Sure, but the example I like to use for this is cars...a trunk has X-number of cubic feet of storage space. If a seat occupies that space, something that is crucial to the operation of the car(while carrying passengers), then the space the seat occupies is not listed. Only open space is. Or, if it's folding seat, they list it, but have to also lsit that there is a caveat there.

You rent a 400 cubic foot storage locker, rated for 400 cubic feet of storage, you get 400 cubic feet of OPEN space.

You buy a PC with a 500GB HDD, you get far less than that for storage space.

See, PC's aren't listed as having "STORAGE SPACE", they are listed as having such and such space on their HDD, or SSD.

That is how MS screwed up.

That's not just MS, Apple is the same way a 160GB iPod is labeled 160GB of storage. Even without the OS and only formatting it's less than that. All MS has to do is prove uniformity with current standards. Does tho MS pad contain a 32GB disk yes then it is no different than a 32GB iPad.

If a judge doesn't agree to that he better get ready for a class action suit because that's the road he is heading down. Oh and the tablet purchased mentions formatted size of disk will be less than advertised...

[cadaveca]

yeah, I agree, CDA. It's not just MS, that's why I said above the INDUSTRY needs to be more accountable.

[95Viper]

This just my opinion and not any kind of legal opinion.

The lawsuit has no grounds.
Microsoft did not hide info or mis-inform/mis-lead anyone.
All the information is in their F.A.Q. and available to anyone.
If this lawyer/consumer was any good they would have done the first thing any normal person would do... RESEARCH.

The case should be tossed on the first day and not allowed to waste anyone's tax dollars.

Surface disk space FAQ

Quote from page:

Surface with Windows RT comes with either 32 GB or 64 GB of internal storage space (hard disk space). However, not all of this space is available for your music, photos, videos, and other content.
How much storage space do I have?

Here’s how much hard disk space you have available out of the box:
The 32 GB version has approximately 16 GB free hard disk space.
The 64 GB version has approximately 45 GB free hard disk space.