Cloned HDD wont boot

[Gilletter]

I cloned a HDD to get rid of older HDD and lose the IDE cables and stick with SATA. Only problem is the cloned HDD wont boot nor repair, and the boot record seems to be on the second IDE drive and not the one with the windows partition on it. Is there anyway to fix this situation??? I'm afraid of the older drives failing on me, and would like to keep all the installed programs intact. Any ideas on how to make this work???

[Jetster]

No I dont think you can. But just so you understand what happen if you install W7 and have second drive connected it will place the boot sector on the second drive. So when installing W7 disconnect all other drives

This may help http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=556

[McSteel]

There is a way to fix it. When you said "the boot record seems to be on the second IDE drive and not the one with the windows partition on it", did you mean the 100MB recovery partition? If so, that's not really an issue.

Windows places it's bootloader (bootmgr) and it's boot configuration (BCD) as well as the memory testing tool (memtest.exe) and some other tools on the mentioned partition, and marks that partition active. You could freely copy them to the root of your new (cloned) C: drive, make that partition active, and this should work. Couple of things to remember:

You'll need a live OS or another computer to do this. Windows will lock the bootmgr and BCD files for obvious reasons (tempering prevention), so you won't be able to even copy them anywhere from within their owner's OS. If you wanna spare yourself the hassle of moving HDDs between different PCs, or if you don't have a second PC, you could download and burn a Hiren's Boot CD, then boot from it and load Mini XP, then work from there. Be sure to assign a drive letter to the System Reserved partition so that you can copy stuff from it.

The System Reserved partition contains a superhidden "Boot" folder with subfolders and some files, and a superhidden bootmgr file in it's root. Copy both to your cloned C: drive. Use any tool you like to make that partition active. Diskpart, bootice, windows disk management, anything works. Once you set the drive as the primary boot device in BIOS, you should be able to boot your win7.

[Gilletter]

Originally Posted by McSteel

There is a way to fix it. When you said "the boot record seems to be on the second IDE drive and not the one with the windows partition on it", did you mean the 100MB recovery partition? If so, that's not really an issue.

Windows places it's bootloader (bootmgr) and it's boot configuration (BCD) as well as the memory testing tool (memtest.exe) and some other tools on the mentioned partition, and marks that partition active. You could freely copy them to the root of your new (cloned) C: drive, make that partition active, and this should work. Couple of things to remember:

You'll need a live OS or another computer to do this. Windows will lock the bootmgr and BCD files for obvious reasons (tempering prevention), so you won't be able to even copy them anywhere from within their owner's OS. If you wanna spare yourself the hassle of moving HDDs between different PCs, or if you don't have a second PC, you could download and burn a Hiren's Boot CD, then boot from it and load Mini XP, then work from there. Be sure to assign a drive letter to the System Reserved partition so that you can copy stuff from it.

The System Reserved partition contains a superhidden "Boot" folder with subfolders and some files, and a superhidden bootmgr file in it's root. Copy both to your cloned C: drive. Use any tool you like to make that partition active. Diskpart, bootice, windows disk management, anything works. Once you set the drive as the primary boot device in BIOS, you should be able to boot your win7.

So it's not just a hidden file I can just copy to the other drive? Drive C: has my OS and is on and IDE cable, drive D: is also on said cable and has to be first in the boot sequence or I get an error. Drive E: Is the clone of C: on sata, and Drive F: is my 1tb main storage drive. I Want to drop C: and D: out of the system, but the cloned drive gives errors, wont repair and wants me to completely reinstall which I don't want to do. So using that Hirens will allow me to copy the files needed and I can then disconnect the other drives and have drive E: boot now as C: without any issues? BTW I'm on windows 8 now if that matters

[McSteel]

Umm... To be honest, I'm not exactly sure about Win8's bootloader, as it's all pretty new to me. If you're not in too much of a rush, I can play around with my GF's laptop (which runs Win8 Pro x64), and see if there's any significant difference. I can't do that right now, but perhaps later in the evening... However, Win 7 is 6.1.x and Win 8 is 6.2.x, and seeing how Vista's (6.0.x) boot method is about the same as the one in Win 7, I suspect that Win 8 has the same bootloader as Win 7.

So. Boot from Hiren's Boot CD (current version = 15.2), select Mini XP or Live 7, and once it loads, you'll have a Windows XP or a Windows 7 desktop. It runs straight from RAM, and makes no alterations to any of your HDDs unless you want it to. There is also a set of tools that is included, containing a partitioning and a BCD editing tool amongst others.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but, you have two physical PATA/IDE drives, one of which is labeled as C: and is probably a slave drive, the other one is D: which is intended for storage. If this is so, D: is probably a master drive and so has received the bootloader (Windows dislikes slave drives). This means that there may not be a "hidden" partition on the drive that contains the D: partition, instead, look for a superhidden bootmgr file and Boot folder. Superhidden means you have to set "show hidden files" and uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" in the "View" tab of Folder Options. You can try to see if they're there from your current working system ( booting from D: ), then we'll know what to do next.

[DRDNA]

Can this be fixed by inserting an OS disk in the computer in question and then entering the repair console and running the correct DOS code for fix boot? The command is FIXBOOT. OR am I confused whats going on here?

http://www.computerhope.com/msdos.htm#02

[McSteel]

No, that wouldn't help here.

There are two parts of a (legacy, non-GPT) boot sector. The first is a Master Boot Record (MBR), which contains information about partition sizes and locations on the disk, as well as a mid-stage chain of a boot process. The second would be the Partition Boot Record (PBR; sometimes also called Volume Boot Record - VBR). PBR contains the actual, final-stage bootloader that is used to boot up an operating system. The way this works is, MBR is written to the first few sectors of the HDD, and it contains a partition table, and also points to a PBR. The PBR contains the information and the link to the bootloader, which is not required to be in a specific physical location on the disk. Non-partitioned media such as a floppy or a zip-drive do not have an MBR; instead they only utilize PBR and in that case, the bootloader must occupy the initial physical sectors of the media.

FixBoot "repairs" the PBR by writing machine code that points the CPU to access the HDD and search for a file called NTLDR (in case of Win 2k, XP, 2k3) or BOOTMGR (in case of Vista and later), which is expected to be located at the root of the active partition, or in a folder called Boot. Note, however, if there is no NTLDR/BOOTMGR present on the active partition, FixBoot will only do half the required work. Also, if the partition to be booted from isn't marked as active (i.e. it doesn't have hex value 55AA at the end of sector zero), then even having a correct PBR and having a bootloader present won't work.

[Gilletter]

Originally Posted by McSteel

Umm... To be honest, I'm not exactly sure about Win8's bootloader, as it's all pretty new to me. If you're not in too much of a rush, I can play around with my GF's laptop (which runs Win8 Pro x64), and see if there's any significant difference. I can't do that right now, but perhaps later in the evening... However, Win 7 is 6.1.x and Win 8 is 6.2.x, and seeing how Vista's (6.0.x) boot method is about the same as the one in Win 7, I suspect that Win 8 has the same bootloader as Win 7.

So. Boot from Hiren's Boot CD (current version = 15.2), select Mini XP or Live 7, and once it loads, you'll have a Windows XP or a Windows 7 desktop. It runs straight from RAM, and makes no alterations to any of your HDDs unless you want it to. There is also a set of tools that is included, containing a partitioning and a BCD editing tool amongst others.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but, you have two physical PATA/IDE drives, one of which is labeled as C: and is probably a slave drive, the other one is D: which is intended for storage. If this is so, D: is probably a master drive and so has received the bootloader (Windows dislikes slave drives). This means that there may not be a "hidden" partition on the drive that contains the D: partition, instead, look for a superhidden bootmgr file and Boot folder. Superhidden means you have to set "show hidden files" and uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" in the "View" tab of Folder Options. You can try to see if they're there from your current working system ( booting from D: ), then we'll know what to do next.

Originally Posted by DRDNA

Can this be fixed by inserting an OS disk in the computer in question and then entering the repair console and running the correct DOS code for fix boot? The command is FIXBOOT. OR am I confused whats going on here?

http://www.computerhope.com/msdos.htm#02

As far as it goes yes two pata drives. I've already unchecked the hidden files and tried to copy the files and folders to the other drive, with no change. I haven't tried the bootcd yet, I downloaded it but haven't burned it yet. There is a .iso and some other files, am I supposed to burn just the .iso to cd?

As far as the "repair" function it doesn't work, just keeps saying that it cannot be fixed. I'm at the point with it, before I try the bootcd, that I may have to do a fresh install that I don't want to do... too many programs, games, saved files that I don't want to have to copy and paste to another drive and copy back (favs, docs, etc.)

[Gilletter]

Originally Posted by McSteel

No, that wouldn't help here.

There are two parts of a (legacy, non-GPT) boot sector. The first is a Master Boot Record (MBR), which contains information about partition sizes and locations on the disk, as well as a mid-stage chain of a boot process. The second would be the Partition Boot Record (PBR; sometimes also called Volume Boot Record - VBR). PBR contains the actual, final-stage bootloader that is used to boot up an operating system. The way this works is, MBR is written to the first few sectors of the HDD, and it contains a partition table, and also points to a PBR. The PBR contains the information and the link to the bootloader, which is not required to be in a specific physical location on the disk. Non-partitioned media such as a floppy or a zip-drive do not have an MBR; instead they only utilize PBR and in that case, the bootloader must occupy the initial physical sectors of the media.

FixBoot "repairs" the PBR by writing machine code that points the CPU to access the HDD and search for a file called NTLDR (in case of Win 2k, XP, 2k3) or BOOTMGR (in case of Vista and later), which is expected to be located at the root of the active partition, or in a folder called Boot. Note, however, if there is no NTLDR/BOOTMGR present on the active partition, FixBoot will only do half the required work. Also, if the partition to be booted from isn't marked as active (i.e. it doesn't have hex value 55AA at the end of sector zero), then even having a correct PBR and having a bootloader present won't work.

So what I need to fix then is the PBR not the MBR - I've tried all the fixes for MBR, maybe PBR is what's keeping it from loading? Because I've tried all the command prompts and nothing has worked thus far.

[McSteel]

You need to make sure E: is marked as active, and that it's PBR is set to bootmgr. You also need to make sure that bootmgr and "Boot" folder are present on E:

After you do all this, you need to make sure that BIOS is trying to boot from the disk that contains E:

The final step is making sure that E:\Boot\BCD points the system to \Windows , and that the motherboard "sees" your HDD that contains E: as HDD 0.

I suggested you copy the needed files and set the needed attributes for E: from within Mini XP on the Hiren's Boot CD because that's a sure-fire way to do it. You could (and probably should) use BootICE to set both the MBR and PBR type, as well as activate a partition.

Here's a short howto:

First, select the correct drive from the dropdown menu. If running from Mini XP, don't be alarmed if the drive letter isn't E: - it most likely won't be that.


Then, you need to click "Process MBR". In the window that pops up, select "Windows NT 6.x MBR" and click Install/Config.


After clicking "Close", click on "Process PBR". In the window that follows, select "BOOTMGR" and click Install/Config.


Another window will pop up. Verify that it looks like the one below, or fix it so it does:


Upon clicking "OK", then "Close", click "Parts Manage". In the following window, make sure the correct partition is highlighted, then click "Activate". If this button is grayed out, it is possible that the partition is already marked as active. This will be denoted by the letter "A" appearing below the "Act" property.


After clicking close and closing BootICE, your drive will have been prepared for proper booting. All that remains is to make sure the required file (bootmgr) and folder (boot) are properly copied from the recovery partition.

[Gilletter]

I'll try that, I think I have it all set like that now, I'll try it later when I get a chance

[Gilletter]

OK so I tried doing that and I get: preparing automatic repair. Diagnosing you PC. Attempting repairs. Repair failed. Log file \system32\logfiles\srt\srttrail.txt

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Gilletter

OK so I tried doing that and I get: preparing automatic repair. Diagnosing you PC. Attempting repairs. Repair failed. Log file \system32\logfiles\srt\srttrail.txt

Did you plug the drive into a different port? IF so, that's the problem. Even if your default OS is on say, intel port, and backup drive was on another controller, drives need to stay where they were, not swap in location, even if you plan on swapping drives.

[McSteel]

Originally Posted by Gilletter

OK so I tried doing that and I get: preparing automatic repair. Diagnosing you PC. Attempting repairs. Repair failed. Log file \system32\logfiles\srt\srttrail.txt

You'll need to use a BCD editor, and I recommend EasyBCD. Right now I'm a bit short on time, so I can't guide you through it, so feel free to fiddle with it. If you can't figure it out, I'll help later on.
Just make sure you're editing the BCD on E: drive, and not your working one on the IDE drive!

[Gilletter]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Did you plug the drive into a different port? IF so, that's the problem. Even if your default OS is on say, intel port, and backup drive was on another controller, drives need to stay where they were, not swap in location, even if you plan on swapping drives.

Well new drive is on a sata cable vs ide cable. So is there any way of "editing" it to accept the new drive? Cause either my ide port or the drives themselves are going bad.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Gilletter

Well new drive is on a sata cable vs ide cable. So is there any way of "editing" it to accept the new drive? Cause either my ide port or the drives themselves are going bad.

What's most likely happening is that the driver for the disk controller is failing to load.

Editting the Registry so that the default MS AHCI driver is used might help, but then again, it might not.

Personally, I just use Acronis True Image, image the drive to the new drive, and then change the boot order to use the newly imaged drive. Usually, when it fails to load, it's some driver SNAFU, and can't always be fixed.

In your situation, making that registry edit might make the original drive not boot either, so I'm kind of at a loss as to what to recommend you do, other than just do a fresh OS install, and then copy over the stuff you wanted to keep. You'll have to re-install many programs too, but such is life.

[Gilletter]

That's what I'm trying to avoid lol.

[dale]

Did you check the HDD manual to make sure you got the jumper (if there is any, some do) in the right place?

[Gilletter]

Trying to partition the one drive and clone both drives to it and see if that works...

[Gilletter]

still nothing, any other ideas?

[DayKnight]

Background: Two partitions on HDD. Bought a new HDD and this is what happened...

Program I use is Easeus disk copy. It has 2 modes to clone data. Clone disk and clone partition. Whenever I tried the option that only copied the primary/windows partition, I got an error at boot. When I did the whole HDD copy, everything worked like a charm.

No, I had no important windows files in that second partition. It only had my important files.

[Neuromancer]

Okay two things you need to do.

First of all depending on your cloning software you should disable pagefile and hibernation file before attempting to clone, these two files are very large, and more importantly take longer than normal files to copy as they are seen as contiguous. (Same thing goes with other large files like ISOs and video files).

Secondly, the Best thing to do is set sata to AHCI or RAID (google it). then clone windows 7 to the new HDD, you can then force initialization of the IDE drivE (it wont other wise cuz it will share an ID conflict) copy "backup files" over after installing new software. For certain apps you will have to google how to do that, for others you can set an export file or something similar to save you backups.

If worried about your browser? Set a online sync before hand then after install you can disable it if you want other things like game saves are easily copied over. Depends on hte game but they all have a save spot.

The issue is, you are moving from a jmicron IDE controller to a AMD SATA controller. that is why you are not booting and Boot recovery will not work. Even if you installed to SATA drive as a IDE controller, you might still have problems. (You would then still have to deal with changing IDE to AHCI or RAID registry changes and driver installations and it just a mess). You have to preinstall the new drivers to get it to work precloning, then as soo nas clong ing is done. dont restart. power down, and pull the IDE drive. the maybe windows recovery will work with F6 drivers on the USB stick, still probably not.

THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO...

It seriously takes less time to make a 7 usb stick with all your 7 drivers (a 4GB will work), reboot change HDD boot priority to USB then new main boot drive, key is to drop the jmicron drive to teh bottom Dont just push teh other drives up drop jmicron then fix the others. Also during install you need to pull the USB drive at first reboot.

New windows install 7-10 minutes. Driver installation 10-15 minutes. App installation, depends.

And here is the kicker.

You can always change you HDD boot priority BACK to the IDE drive and boot it normally. So it is a true Dual OS setup.


EDIT: BTW, if you pre-format a drive in windows 7, you should not get the "windows 7 needs to create another partition". The only reason it is necessary is if you want to run EFS. (It is also possible to remove it afterwards, but not worth the bother IMHO)

[Gilletter]

I've tried using acronis and other files from Hiren's Boot CD. I make the backup and it doesn't want to boot. So as I see it, it would be impossible to preinstall anything and then use the "backup" to restore the drive with what I'm copying - as it deletes any data on the disk at the time. I've tried going into dos programs and mini win xp and copy and pasting every file over and that doesn't work. As far as setting it to AHCI, I tried that and it wont even recognize anything other than my 1 tb hdd and my dvd drive. I'm at the point that I'm about to just say F it and do a fresh install and just reinstall all the software I have. I really figured this would be an easy project but I guess not, lol. And it's all cause either my IDE drives are failing, the power supply is failing on the molex connectors I have them connected to, or the IDE slot on the motherboard is going bad...

[gts]

just set active partition on with any partition program or windwos disk management your new drive with os ,its work

[Gilletter]

Originally Posted by gts

just set active partition on with any partition program or windwos disk management your new drive with os ,its work

already tried that, doesn't work