Setting up a 7.2 home sytem

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by AsRock

7.1 is pretty useless unless you plan to use bluray how ever there is the odd game that uses the 7.1.

You might want to same brand too due too possible matching issue's.

BIC do some great subs but this all so depends on what you are doing with them too.



Some AV's like mine have 2 sub outputs..

I do not agree with 7.1 being useless. It's great for stereo surround(left/right x3), as well as adding "ambience" filler sounds with certain receivers on 5.1 content.

Quite a few DTS movies have 7.1 tracks now, too, contrary to what has been posted. Well over 500, actually. Most DTS-HD are 7.1, F.Y.I. DTS delivers higher-quality audio than Dolby Digital, in certain formats, so if you want the best sound, look towards 7.1 and DTS content....again, contrary to what's been posted.


I use a Yamaha 8160 7.2 amp. There are many 7.2 amps now.


Why .2?

Most of what I listen to is stereo content. Usually, stereos with 7.2 send both left/right bass to each respective sub, as well as L.F.E. effects from movie soundtracks(which get broadcast on both).

I find that because most users cannot get "perfect" speaker placement, .2 offers a better choice for balanced bass output.

[simon_s]

What i wanted was a 7.2 setup just for the sound so if it would be possible to connect 2 more speakers from a 5.1 and a extra sub from a 5.1 it would have more of a bass balance also as for the 2 extra speakers be a bit louder and in all directions.

out of interest, i have a pair of intimidation s5000 speakers i think at 350 watts each. Wondering what these would best connect to i don't think a home receiver could handle these?

[simon_s]

out of interest, i have a pair of intimidation s5000 speakers i think at 350 watts each. Wondering what these would best connect to i don't think a home receiver could handle these?

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by simon_s

out of interest, i have a pair of intimidation s5000 speakers i think at 350 watts each. Wondering what these would best connect to i don't think a home receiver could handle these?

Watts is not the question. the Ohm rating of the speakers are(2, 4, 6, or 8 ohm).

many high-end speakers are 6-ohm, but not many receivers are. 4 ohm usually isn't an issue.

rather than posting twice in a row, edit your previous post,

[simon_s]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Watts is not the question. the Ohm rating of the speakers are(2, 4, 6, or 8 ohm).

many high-end speakers are 6-ohm, but not many receivers are. 4 ohm usually isn't an issue.

so would these speakers go onto a receiver that only has around 120 watts per channel? i think they are 4ohms and bi-wire able so can add each top and bottom to receiver separate.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by simon_s

so would these speakers go onto a receiver that only has around 120 watts per channel? i think they are 4ohms and bi-wire able so can add each top and bottom to receiver separate.

if the amp supports 4-ohm, then sure. If it offers A/B channels, you can connect A to one set of poles, and B to the other. If there is a bridge between the pole sets though, you'll have to remove it before bi-wiring.

[simon_s]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

if the amp supports 4-ohm, then sure. If it offers A/B channels, you can connect A to one set of poles, and B to the other. If there is a bridge between the pole sets though, you'll have to remove it before bi-wiring.

ye the amp supports 4 ohms but then what about the speaker watts and receiver watts per channel? can you just explain the a/b channels in a bit of depth lol cheers, ye it has the metal plate between. also where is best to bi-wire them onto the receiver? as it only has front left, front right etc

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by Caspase

If something is recorded in a 5.1 format, then to ouput in 7.2 it has to be "virtualy streched" (let's go with that). Nothing I know of - there maybe loads of stuff, I just don't know - is recorded in that 7.2 format. There are standarts of recording and compressing the audio signal, and the gold standard today is 5.1.
What sub do you have exactly?

Yes it is possible to have two powered Subs via a 7.2CH setup. Just make sure you use identical Sub Woofers. From what I've heard, two subs will rock your home most definitely. It may very well be overkill. A good receiver will properly distribute power to the subs.

Depending on the amount of HDMI inputs on the receiver, you can connect everything using HDMI.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by simon_s

ye the amp supports 4 ohms but then what about the speaker watts and receiver watts per channel? can you just explain the a/b channels in a bit of depth lol cheers, ye it has the metal plate between. also where is best to bi-wire them onto the receiver? as it only has front left, front right etc

you should not need to worry about that. wattage more refers to volume, and anything over 125W, in real terms, will make your brain bleed, anyway.

A/b channels are two sets of stereo pairs that broadcast the same audio. can be used to pipe sound into another room, run a second set of speakers, or to bi-amp speakers that support it.

A has left/right, as does B. You should see listings for such on the back panel, one set of jacks for each pair.

"A" left/right go to one set of jacks on main speaker, after removing plate. "B" goes to the other set on the same speaker. this provides(usually), power to mid/tweeter and subs separately, so that you can actually push 200W, or 250W, through one speaker.

[simon_s]

Originally Posted by Super XP

Yes it is possible to have two powered Subs via a 7.2CH setup. Just make sure you use identical Sub Woofers. From what I've heard, two subs will rock your home most definitely. It may very well be overkill. A good receiver will properly distribute power to the subs.

Depending on the amount of HDMI inputs on the receiver, you can connect everything using HDMI.

How do i connect subs via hdmi? yes i will be thinking of getting another identical sub however they seem to be generally small but fingers crossed they will work a treat. Im looking to get powered subs but not sure what the best way is to connect them together

[simon_s]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

you should not need to worry about that. wattage more refers to volume, and anything over 125W, in real terms, will make your brain bleed, anyway.

A/b channels are two sets of stereo pairs that broadcast the same audio. can be used to pipe sound into another room, run a second set of speakers, or to bi-amp speakers that support it.

A has left/right, as does B. You should see listings for such on the back panel, one set of jacks for each pair.

"A" left/right go to one set of jacks on main speaker, after removing plate. "B" goes to the other set on the same speaker. this provides(usually), power to mid/tweeter and subs separately, so that you can actually push 200W, or 250W, through one speaker.

just inacase we have a party or something one day i wouldnt want it to overheat as the speakers are 300 watts plus and the receiver can only provide them with around 120 watts.
right that sort of makes sense (im getting there lol) can you see this picture and then explain from there http://www.audio-express.co.uk/produ..._673_2_VBG.jpg
thanks!
so after taking plates of take the top 2 positive negative to the a side of the front left and then the bottom 2 for the subs of the speakers to the b side? front left? and same again for the right?

[AsRock]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I do not agree with 7.1 being useless. It's great for stereo surround(left/right x3), as well as adding "ambience" filler sounds with certain receivers on 5.1 content.

Quite a few DTS movies have 7.1 tracks now, too, contrary to what has been posted. Well over 500, actually. Most DTS-HD are 7.1, F.Y.I. DTS delivers higher-quality audio than Dolby Digital, in certain formats, so if you want the best sound, look towards 7.1 and DTS content....again, contrary to what's been posted.


I use a Yamaha 8160 7.2 amp. There are many 7.2 amps now.


Why .2?

Most of what I listen to is stereo content. Usually, stereos with 7.2 send both left/right bass to each respective sub, as well as L.F.E. effects from movie soundtracks(which get broadcast on both).

I find that because most users cannot get "perfect" speaker placement, .2 offers a better choice for balanced bass output.

Yes there is getting more content for it but not all that much and tell you the truth a pair of speakers if the quality is high enough can beat a 5.1 setup it's just that the area is wider with multiple speakers.

And as for DD i have never liked it even back when it was on cassette decks. Hence why i like using Direct multichannel when possible.. And as for music direct or stereo is best way anyways..

Multiple speakers is so they can make speakers cheaper as a real good pair of speakers can give surround sound with high quality content.

Option i have on my AV is front with front high + rear or front + side and rear later being the better i thought if anything.

What he really need to do if any thing is get his ass in some HIFI shops like SuperFI if he lives in the UK as thats the only real true way of finding what you really want..

[simon_s]

Posted this in another thread but was told to keep it in here:
Hi just another quick post as the previous one really helped so thanks,
I am going for the 5.1 home theater option as my receiver has the option of 7.2 but don't really cut it from what i've heard, but what i wanted was 7 speakers in general alongside the 5.ch as i have a larger room so it will be more loud in general and as for 2 sub woofers the bass will be more balanced. what is the best way for 2 subwoofers (powered) to be connected via 1 output in case the receiver does not have 2.
Also the receiver is at 120 watts per channel i wanted to add in a pair to the front floor standing but are 300 watts? is there anyway these could be connected as they sound amazing.
thanks

[MT Alex]

BumbleBee...?...

[manofthem]

Originally Posted by MT Alex

BumbleBee...?...

God rear her TPU soul ....

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by simon_s

How do i connect subs via hdmi? yes i will be thinking of getting another identical sub however they seem to be generally small but fingers crossed they will work a treat. Im looking to get powered subs but not sure what the best way is to connect them together

Subs are connected via Digital Coaxial (RG6+) not by HDMI that I am aware of. Your 7.2CH Digital Receiver will have Dual Sub out. Use your HDMI connections with Blu-Ray players, media players, game consoles etc., it should have 1 HDMI out that goes to your HDTV and several HDMI Inputs to add hardware.

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by simon_s

Thanks for the links! as for the speakers i think on the receiver the power per channel is 120w would it matter if the speakers are slightly more powerful then this?

No. A slight variation is not going to matter. As cadaveca said its about the ohm rating too, most receivers allow you to switch between the value that matches your speakers. Very unlikely you'll do damage anyways.

Originally Posted by AsRock

7.1 is pretty useless unless you plan to use bluray

There are more HD 5.1 soundtracks than HD 7.1 soundtracks by a landslide even on bluray. 7.1 is dead for the average consumer.

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Quite a few DTS movies have 7.1 tracks now, too, contrary to what has been posted. Well over 500, actually. Most DTS-HD are 7.1, F.Y.I. DTS delivers higher-quality audio than Dolby Digital, in certain formats, so if you want the best sound, look towards 7.1 and DTS content....again, contrary to what's been posted.

I disagree. Although Bluray content is supporting the HD standards they are mostly doing so in HD 5.1 only. Studios have realised that 7.1 isnt going anywhere so started recorded primarily in Dolby Digital True HD 5.1 and DTS Masters 5.1 - The consumer still benefits from the higher bitrate and quality but without the speakers needed.

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I
I find that because most users cannot get "perfect" speaker placement, .2 offers a better choice for balanced bass output.

You are talking from experience, something the OP doesn't have. He is in love with the idea of .2, this is his first home cinema so he won't know how to critique anything. Give him any setup and he will enjoy it until he learns to develop his own tastes.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Dent1

I disagree. Although Bluray content is supporting the HD standards they are mostly doing so in HD 5.1 only. Studios have realised that 7.1 isnt going anywhere so started recorded primarily in Dolby Digital True HD 5.1 and DTS Masters 5.1 - The consumer still benefits from the higher bitrate and quality but without the speakers needed.

DTS-HD Master AUDIO does not come in a 5.1 format. Just saying. It's native 7.1 with down-mixing to 5.1 or 2.1/2.0.

That belief you have that it does not have 7.1 native says it all, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Dent1

You are talking from experience, something the OP doesn't have. He is in love with the idea of .2, this is his first home cinema so he won't know how to critique anything. Give him any setup and he will enjoy it until he learns to develop his own tastes.

You are probably right, but that's besides the point. HD Audio, in and of itself, it a set of standards. Within these standards are designs for hardware configurations and such..and like OC'ing, I like to follow the reference format.


7.2 is not reference. 7.1 is.

But at the same time, 2.1 is not reference, but 2.0 is.


So how do you get both?


I'm thinking along the lines of having the best possible overall, not building something that might be limited. Sure, 5.1 is great, and 7.1 won't offer much more for most, but to ignore it is just not how I do things. I've been running 7.1 before HD AUdio and BluRay, I know there are TONNES of 7.1 DVDs, even since I own many of them. And most DO sound better in 7.1....for surround envelopment. Audio quality, on the other hand.......that is up to your own ears.

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

DTS-HD Master AUDIO does not come in a 5.1 format. Just saying. It's native 7.1 with down-mixing to 5.1 or 2.1/2.0.

That belief you have that it does not have 7.1 native says it all, I'm afraid.

I'm aware that DTS-Masters Audio be native upto 7.1. (keyword upto)

You'll see on a lot of movies, are DTS HD Masters 5.1 only. For example the Lethal Weapon 1-4 boxset, X-Men Trilogy boxset, Sherlock Homes 2011, Red Riding Hood, just to name a few all supports only DTS HD Master Audio 5.1 in English.

Even The Matrix on Blu-ray has dependant options for Dolby Digital 5.1 and Dolby Digital True HD 5.1. Dolby Digital True HD 7.1 is nowhere in sight!


This is becoming a recurring pattern. Studios are ditching 7.1 and concentrating on 5.1. variations of the HD standard.

Just to confirm what Im saying is true:

English: DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
English: Dolby Digital 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1
English: DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
English: Dolby Digital 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1 (less)

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Lethal...Blu-ray/14510/
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/X-Men-...-Blu-ray/3761/
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sherlo...Blu-ray/31592/
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Red-Ri...Blu-ray/22975/
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Matrix-Blu-ray/9110/

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Dent1

You'll see on a lot of movies, are DTS HD Masters 5.1 only

Older ones, or budget films, sure. Any new title is DTS HD-MA. DTS-HD-MA is 192 KHz 5.1, or 96 KHz 7.1, but I can guarantee those titles only have 96 KHz audio, which isn't, technically, HD-MA. It's HRA, or High-Res Audio. It's probably just the old DTS 96/24 track from the original with such titles. Not all HD-Audio capable receivers can do 5.1 in 192 KHz, with many only supporting stereo 192 KHz, so most HD-Audio tracks use 96KHz audio. It has more to do with the gear that was used to record with, and not really the disc or whatever.

Dolby, on the other hand, is something different. DTS has always offered higher-quality audio than Dolby, for whatever reasons, I don't really care, just how it has worked for many years.


Technically, I see this as titles purposely mislabeling things, if anything, really.

Anyway, this is all rather pedantic, so whatever. Really, the whole thing was using the .2 end of it, which extends the bass portion form a centralized sub, probably misplaced in a corner, to having left/right bass output, and the ability to forgo full tower speakers and use bookshelf speakers instead. Few people actually listen to HD content, barring movies, and most are either listening to TV broadcasts, or music playback. Leaving the .1 format and going to .2 makes that end, the audio playback, a much better experience.

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Older ones, or budget films, sure. Any new title is DTS HD-MA. DTS-HD-MA is 192 KHz 5.1, or 96 KHz 7.1, but I can guarantee those titles only have 96 KHz audio, which isn't, technically, HD-MA. It's HRA, or High-Res Audio. It's probably just the old DTS 96/24 track from the original with such titles.

I don't think it's just budget and old films. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 is a new film (2011) and had a huge budget and grossed #1 worldwide and it also supports DTS-HD Master 5.1 only. (No HD 7.1)

Audio Codec: English DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1, French and Spanish Dolby Digital 5.1 [3D/2D]

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/7820..._ultimate.html
http://www.blu-raydefinition.com/rev...3d-review.html

You make a good point about some HD receivers not supporting 192 KHz @ 5.1, but most do. For the receivers that don't they have the option of playing it back in regular DTS or regular DD which is always selectable as an option.

I've actually sold my subwoofer a couple of years ago. As i've got older I found I don't like too much bass.

[cadaveca]

Harry Potter falls under the class of "older". The original film was released in 2001, long before HD Audio was out, and you can bet that the audio engineer didn't upgrade his gear very much sicne the first, if at all, and hence the 5.1 format.


Harry Potter came out on VHS, FFS!



Really when it comes down to movies and audio content, you need to look at who did the audio engineering. Guys that do many films, and keep up to date hardware, do DTS HD-MA in both 7.1 and 5.1 formats(software makes this pretty simple, actually). Guys that are "cork-sniffers" about audio, tend to not upgrade gear often, and in my opinion, output lower-quality stuff.


The only reason I bring it up, even, is that for any HT audio build, you really need to consider all factors. 7.1 content exists, so to forgo the capability just limits possibilities. You don't LOSE anything with 7.1...

But with so many problems in the audio chain, from mixer, to playback device, to receiver, cable type, blah, blah blah blah...there's really far too many choice for there to truly be any "right" way to do things, and it's better to overbuild than it is to underbuild, IMHO.

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by simon_s

Posted this in another thread but was told to keep it in here:
Hi just another quick post as the previous one really helped so thanks,
I am going for the 5.1 home theater option as my receiver has the option of 7.2 but don't really cut it from what i've heard, but what i wanted was 7 speakers in general alongside the 5.ch as i have a larger room so it will be more loud in general and as for 2 sub woofers the bass will be more balanced. what is the best way for 2 subwoofers (powered) to be connected via 1 output in case the receiver does not have 2.
Also the receiver is at 120 watts per channel i wanted to add in a pair to the front floor standing but are 300 watts? is there anyway these could be connected as they sound amazing.
thanks

Here you go. Sub Woofe Wire.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

[Steevo]

subs in general are a gimmic to make up for mediocre performance of primary speakers.


Spend the extra $$ on better freestanding speakers and a head with enough power to run them, or amplified individual components. I love my Polk Monitor 60's, they have a great balance of power and range, no sub needed even in the open area of my living room and dining room.

If you have a larger room then a sub may be needed but you are going to need a huge room before a set of good floorstanding speakers can't provide the power.

[simon_s]

oh guys nearly getting there, i have the Pioneer VSX1122 and wondering how i can connect my intimidation s5000 speakers to the receiver by bi-wiring them on the right ports A.B (subs go to correct ports, mid - tweeter go to correct ports) as its a bit confusing. they are around 350 watts rms at 4 ohms but what will this change to once the back bridge has gone and they are bi wired as i think the receiver is at 6 ohms 150w per channel.