Need some advice for an upgrade.

[TriggerWolf]

Hi everyone.

Joined up TPU in hopes to get some valuable advice on an upgrade for my 4 year old rig. Ever since Borderlands 2 came out that I suspect that my CPU became a liability, and now with FarCry 3 it became slightly more evident.

I have a fairly tight budget, no more than €600 (Roughly 800USD) so I decided it was time for an upgrade (a little Christmas present ).

What makes me think that my CPU is bottlenecking is that when playing FarCry 3, with Ultra settings on DX11 but without MSAA AA I get between 35 and 70 FPS. Looking at an area that I get about 50FPS, I noticed that my GPU was being only used at about 85% and that all of my CPU cores were over 90% usage sometimes one or two hitting 100%. So I take that the CPU has really reached its limit.

Now, I thought of a few options:
- Sabertooth Z77 along a 3570K setting me back about €430, and maybe later dumping the Quadro FX3800 and getting another 470 for SLI for about an extra €130, totalling around €560.
- Maximus V Extreme and a 3570K for about €570 and "Future proof-ness"
- "Dump" the GTX470 and get a GTX680 for about €480 if the problem is really not the CPU.

What do you guys think? I'm all ears for suggestions!

EDIT: Current rig specs are already filled up.

Cheers

[erixx]

Wow you have a running Striker mobo! (I have 2 dead ones) 8)

Z77 with 3570K is a very sweet combo.

The graphix sweet babe is a GTX660 -Ti or non Ti-...for your screen size (only suggesting nV parts)

Decide on the mobo, depending on wished features. I have the MVE and its Thunderbold port is futureproof but not much offered for it...

[XL-R8R]

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Socket 1155 VGA DVI HDMI 7.1.....

Intel Core i5 3570K 3.4GHz Socket 1155 6MB Cache O...

Kingston 8GB 2400MHz DDR3 Non-ECC CL11 DIMM (Kit o...

You'll be needing new RAM too as your current stuff is too high voltage for the newer platform.

I'd keep your current GPU as nothing new makes sense as the price will be way too high... add another for SLI action later on.

You should also consider an SSD to help things load quicker and for a more pleasurable experience in Windoze.


Those things would be my pick for your budget. Get yourself a Corsair H80i with whats leftover and you're set to go.



You should also add where you're from so we get a better idea of the places to look.

Also, welcome to TPU!


Edit:

Sell your FX3800 and pick up another 470 for no extra money. They are selling for a stupidly high price and you'd be able to score a used 470 for the same, if not less.

[JrRacinFan]

None of it. Go X79 + i7 3820.

[brandonwh64]

From your systems specs, I do not see and issue with running games. The quad you have is quite decent and the GTX 470 should handle BL2 without issue.

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

None of it. Go X79 + i7 3820.

Why though Jr? If he is just gaming then the benefit of X79 over Z77 is almost pointless.

[XL-R8R]

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

None of it. Go X79 + i7 3820.

Board/CPU combo would total 90%+ of his budget... seems a bad choice to be honest for very little gains vs the 3570K.

[JrRacinFan]

Originally Posted by brandonwh64

From your systems specs, I do not see and issue with running games. The quad you have is quite decent and the GTX 470 should handle BL2 without issue.



Why though Jr? If he is just gaming then the benefit of X79 over Z77 is almost pointless.

Originally Posted by XL-R8R

Board/CPU combo would total 90%+ of his budget... seems a bad choice to be honest for very little gains vs the 3570K.

Ok then, go an i3 2120 + any z68 + gtx660. LOL nah in all seriousness....

Ivy Bridge-E/Haswell has yet to be released and has yet to really be "confirmed" to be more than just 6 cores. We already know there will be 4 & 6 core variants. Basically what i am saying is jump in the X79 train while the budget is there. The GTX470 can still game and should be fine for another 6mos to a year.

[brandonwh64]

If HT is not needed a I5-3570K would be the ideal chip to get! Pair that with a decent Z77 board and GTX 670 and you should be set.

[TriggerWolf]

Originally Posted by erixx

Wow you have a running Striker mobo! (I have 2 dead ones) 8)

Z77 with 3570K is a very sweet combo.

The graphix sweet babe is a GTX660 -Ti or non Ti-...for your screen size (only suggesting nV parts)

Decide on the mobo, depending on wished features. I have the MVE and its Thunderbold port is futureproof but not much offered for it...

A freaking picky mobo when it comes to OC, but I really like its design. Got a 8400 @ 4.4 GHz on it with lesser effort than to get this 9450 @ 3.66. But never had any problems with it, running OCed nearly since I bought this system.

I considered the ROG MVE due to being a ROG mobo fan really.

Well, wished features are really 2 GPUs, either SLI or Single + Physx. I also own an LSI SAS controller PCIE x4. So I think the Sabertooth is just close enough, the 470 is not really enough to exhaust the 8 lanes @ 2.0

Originally Posted by XL-R8R

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Socket 1155 VGA DVI HDMI 7.1.....

Intel Core i5 3570K 3.4GHz Socket 1155 6MB Cache O...

Kingston 8GB 2400MHz DDR3 Non-ECC CL11 DIMM (Kit o...

You'll be needing new RAM too as your current stuff is too high voltage for the newer platform.

I'd keep your current GPU as nothing new makes sense as the price will be way too high... add another for SLI action later on.

You should also consider an SSD to help things load quicker and for a more pleasurable experience in Windoze.


Those things would be my pick for your budget. Get yourself a Corsair H80i with whats leftover and you're set to go.



You should also add where you're from so we get a better idea of the places to look.

Also, welcome to TPU!


Edit:

Sell your FX3800 and pick up another 470 for no extra money. They are selling for a stupidly high price and you'd be able to score a used 470 for the same, if not less.

I had some really bad experiences with ASRock in the past... Haven't taken a look at their products in a really long time, have they become better?

Regarding the RAM, not really, this RAM I'm using is rated at 1.5v (running @ 1.6v due to tighter timings) so I think I can hold on to it for a little longer.

Upgrading from these SAS HDDs to SSDs is planned, but not for now

Selling the Quadro is a good idea... I should kick my self in the rear for not thinking about that either, that'll make my budget go up another few hundred euro .

A closed loop water cooling is also planned... lol.

Using the idea of selling the Quadro I will have to rethink some things.

Already did. Thanks for the welcome

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

None of it. Go X79 + i7 3820.

LOL that's over my budget

A 3570K is around €215, a Z77 Sabertooth is about €220 and a MVE is just short of €360.

Originally Posted by brandonwh64

From your systems specs, I do not see and issue with running games. The quad you have is quite decent and the GTX 470 should handle BL2 without issue.

Why though Jr? If he is just gaming then the benefit of X79 over Z77 is almost pointless.

The problem I have with BL2 is that on determined places, FPS goes all the way down to about 30FPS, GPU usage goes down to about 20% and Physx GPU usage rises with it and it's not even in battles, just idling around. Honestly I forgot to check CPU usage, but that can be done later today.

Originally Posted by brandonwh64

If HT is not needed a I5-3570K would be the ideal chip to get! Pair that with a decent Z77 board and GTX 670 and you should be set.

Not really, HT is pointless, I do some photoshopping now and then, or Lightroom, but nothing remotely close to having the need for an HT enabled CPU.

[JrRacinFan]

Originally Posted by TriggerWolf

have they become better?

TONS better. In most cases better than Asus.

[brandonwh64]

ASrock has stepped up their game 10x in the past 4 years give or take. If I had to choose between all the current motherboard manufacturers, I would choose ASRock even though I am very partial to gigabyte.

[Tonim89]

Brandonwh64 is right. You don't need anything more tha nan i5 3570K + GTX 670 for any 2012 game at 1080p. Pair it with a good price/performance Z77 MB will save you somes buck to drink a beer in the weekend haha

[JrRacinFan]

Where you ordering from Trigger?

[TriggerWolf]

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

TONS better. In most cases better than Asus.

Originally Posted by brandonwh64

ASrock has stepped up their game 10x in the past 4 years give or take. If I had to choose between all the current motherboard manufacturers, I would choose ASRock even though I am very partial to gigabyte.

Interesting, never imagined that. Although that mobo looks really nice, the lack of a 3rd PCIE slot prevents me from considering it, as I have a RAID card coupled with 5 SAS HDDs.

Having taken a look at a X79 combo... the 3930k alone will eat up 90% of my budget lol
and I really want some OCing goodness.

Originally Posted by Tonim89

Brandonwh64 is right. You don't need anything more tha nan i5 3570K + GTX 670 for any 2012 game at 1080p. Pair it with a good price/performance Z77 MB will save you somes buck to drink a beer in the weekend haha

If I manage to sell the Quadro and the GTX470 I could get a 670, but that's a pretty long shot. A Beer sounds nice lol and I don't need to include it on the budget.

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

Where you ordering from Trigger?

Portugal. But I do know where to look :P

[brandonwh64]

Originally Posted by TriggerWolf

Interesting, never imagined that. Although that mobo looks really nice, the lack of a 3rd PCIE slot prevents me from considering it, as I have a RAID card coupled with 5 SAS HDDs.

Oh they have boards with more PCIex slots!

5x PCIex

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme9/

3x PCIex

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20OC%20Formula/

3x PCIex

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme11/

3x PCIex

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal...0Professional/

[Tonim89]

Originally Posted by TriggerWolf

If I manage to sell the Quadro and the GTX470 I could get a 670, but that's a pretty long shot. A Beer sounds nice lol and I don't need to include it on the budget.

Your budget should be enough for 3570K+Z77+GTX 670, as you said you have 800USD.

PS. Saudações do Brasil ao povo de Portugal!

[TriggerWolf]

Originally Posted by brandonwh64

Oh they have boards with more PCIex slots!

/snip

Holy mother of god... That Extreme11 looks sweet. 14 SATA ports? LOL talk about overkill, not to mention on the PLX chips. Also expensive, from a review I read they said around 400USD.. lol

I've not seen the Extreme11 on sale around here yet, only the Extreme9. I'll read some reviews on it as well.

Originally Posted by Tonim89

Your budget should be enough for 3570K+Z77+GTX 670, as you said you have 800USD.

PS. Saudações do Brasil ao povo de Portugal!

Saudações de Portugal ao povo do Brasil!
Translation: Greetins from Portugal to the people from Brazil. /Translation

I wish. €600 may be about 800USD but the price difference is way higher than exchange rates .
3570K - €215 (285USD)
Sabertooth Z77 - €220 (290USD)
GTX670 - €390 (515USD)
Extreme9 - €312 (412USD)

So a mobo+CPU+GPU combo would be either €825 (1089USD) or €917 (1210USD)

I could manage the first option if I am able to sell the GTX470 and the FX3800, but I'd lose the dedicated Physx GPU.

Over in the US, taken from a well known seller like newegg I got:
3570K - 215USD
Sabertooth Z77 - 240USD
GTX670 - 360USD
Extreme9 - 300USD

Over there it would be either 815USD or 875USD, so yeah... as you said, it's enough lol


Talk about a near 1:1 rates on the prices to a 1:1.32 on the money exchange rates. It would be lovely if I did import from the USA. But I don't want to take any chances of customs lol


Also, thanks to everyone so far for your help.

[XL-R8R]

Thinking about what you've said, I think the Asus Sabertooth and ASRock Extreme 9 are both (with the last one especially) far too expensive for what they are offering.


I think this would be a far better solution in terms of motherboard: LINK

The price is respectable and it offers pretty much everything the Sabertooth does at a fair chunk less €$£ while doing so.

3570K still gets my vote, too, for being cheap, overclocking like a beast and performing well while doing so.

Also, why stick with (1066)1333mhz RAM when you can be running 2xxxMHz for very little money? The resulting memory bandwidth with the latter would make it well worth your time switching and you could also sell your current CPU/Mobo/RAM as a package for an easier sale, if you don't intend on keeping it.

If you went with the Kingston RAM (or some similar kit) I linked earlier along with the Extreme 6 and 3570K, that'd put you around €450 spent.... sell the Quadro for €100 - €120 and pick up another GTX470 while you're at it for no extra cash.

I also read you don't want an SSD.... I think you should invest in one as your main boot drive as it'll kick those SAS drives in the with its latency and no doubt read/write too. Use the SAS drives for backup/storage space/steam/pr0n and have the best of both worlds.


Put the rest of your €600 budget to either stepping up to a 3770K for the extra e-peen + HT or on a custom WC loop like you mentioned... lots of value for your money if it worked out for you like this.

[Caspase]

Saudações de Portugal!
Antes de mais, a nivel de bons preços nacional posso recomendar a chiptec.net e se tens problemas com os portes sempre podes tentar a amazon.es ou .co.uk. O resto vai em inglês.

I take it that you only use one monitor for gaming, right? At that resolution, a gtx 470 is actually very capable. I would also go with the asrock z77 extreme 4 + i5 3570k + 2x4gb ram (no more, no less than 1600 cl 9 is needed)
This will give you a good basis for the future, since most games aren't that taxing CPU wise, currently. That should total about 380-400€, in my usual portuguese hardware store.
I woul advice against a h80i, there really are better solution, both termally and accoustically. The good things going for it are aesthetics and less motherboard strain, due to weight. Just get a hyper evo, ivy cant be OCed that far, and spending 50 more for 100 mhz is just... not ideal.
Save those 200, sell what you have and when the next gpu gen comes, you can buy a 770 and be done with it.

Edit: Just saw the 3 PCI-e requirements, that means you have to count with at least 50 more, and at that price I would go for a Sabertooth, just love the design

[Aleksander]

Weird, I run far cry 3 and borderlands perfectly

I think my cpu with yours is like on par and my gpu is slower

on this page:
http://www.surlix.com/us/pc/classeme...urs.php?id=279

It shows
AMD Phenom II X4 B50 5660pts
Intel Core2 Quad Q9450 5403pts

on this page:
http://www.hwcompare.com/8630/geforc...n-hd-6770-1gb/

it shows the gpu performance

But from what i see, it might be the resolution difference

[Tonim89]

Trigger, get a cheaper MB.

If you don't plan to build a multi gpu, you can get an Gigabyte Z77X-D3H.

[TriggerWolf]

Originally Posted by XL-R8R

Thinking about what you've said, I think the Asus Sabertooth and ASRock Extreme 9 are both (with the last one especially) far too expensive for what they are offering.

I think this would be a far better solution in terms of motherboard: LINK

/snip

Also, why stick with (1066)1333mhz RAM when you can be running 2xxxMHz for very little money? The resulting memory bandwidth with the latter would make it well worth your time switching and you could also sell your current CPU/Mobo/RAM as a package for an easier sale, if you don't intend on keeping it.

If you went with the Kingston RAM (or some similar kit) I linked earlier along with the Extreme 6 and 3570K, that'd put you around €450 spent.... sell the Quadro for €100 - €120 and pick up another GTX470 while you're at it for no extra cash.

I also read you don't want an SSD.... I think you should invest in one as your main boot drive as it'll kick those SAS drives in the with its latency and no doubt read/write too. Use the SAS drives for backup/storage space/steam/pr0n and have the best of both worlds.


Put the rest of your €600 budget to either stepping up to a 3770K for the extra e-peen + HT or on a custom WC loop like you mentioned... lots of value for your money if it worked out for you like this.

It's not that I don't plan in getting an SSD, I do, and I'd like more than one, but it's not really my main priority

I wasn't really decided on what to do with the old hardware, really, in the event of managing to sell the cpu-ram-mobo combo that will be of a really nice help. Getting the 3770k is really a waste of money for what I need imho, I understand what you mean, but for the e-peen (lol) I'd get a 3930k

Yup, the RAM I'm using was dead cheap, it was just to replace some never-worked-right 4x1GB OCZ Platinum EB 1600MHz CL6 I bought 4 years ago with the rest of my current hardware. (How I miss my old Corsair XMS2 675 CL4 OCed to 1066 CL4 lol)

Selling old hardware is only an extra, and by extra I mean new RAM, GPU, cooling, etc. Unless any of those fits in my current budget. Whatever comes after, is bonus!


Thanks for the mobo suggestion, that one is quite cheap!

Originally Posted by Caspase

Saudações de Portugal!
Antes de mais, a nivel de bons preços nacional posso recomendar a chiptec.net e se tens problemas com os portes sempre podes tentar a amazon.es ou .co.uk. O resto vai em inglês.

I take it that you only use one monitor for gaming, right? At that resolution, a gtx 470 is actually very capable. I would also go with the asrock z77 extreme 4 + i5 3570k + 2x4gb ram (no more, no less than 1600 cl 9 is needed)
This will give you a good basis for the future, since most games aren't that taxing CPU wise, currently. That should total about 380-400€, in my usual portuguese hardware store.
I woul advice against a h80i, there really are better solution, both termally and accoustically. The good things going for it are aesthetics and less motherboard strain, due to weight. Just get a hyper evo, ivy cant be OCed that far, and spending 50 more for 100 mhz is just... not ideal.
Save those 200, sell what you have and when the next gpu gen comes, you can buy a 770 and be done with it.

Edit: Just saw the 3 PCI-e requirements, that means you have to count with at least 50 more, and at that price I would go for a Sabertooth, just love the design

Português!

Conheço essa loja, vou dar uma vista de olhos!

Back to English:

Yeah, I only use one monitor for gaming, I'd use both if I could lol. Oh, I feel that games currently are starting to get quite CPU taxing rather than GPU, as I said on a previous post, Far Cry 3 was making my 9450 "scream" as if it was being Prime95'd all over again.

Currently not planning to change cooling. If changing mobo, I'll get an adaptor from Noctua to place my NH-C12p on the LGA1155, my case albeit big has a major flaw where I can't put coolers that are too tall, or they'll interfere with the 200mm side panel fan. Later on, maybe custom watercooling

Originally Posted by Aleksander Dishnica

Weird, I run far cry 3 and borderlands perfectly

I think my cpu with yours is like on par and my gpu is slower

on this page:
http://www.surlix.com/us/pc/classeme...urs.php?id=279

It shows
AMD Phenom II X4 B50 5660pts
Intel Core2 Quad Q9450 5403pts

on this page:
http://www.hwcompare.com/8630/geforc...n-hd-6770-1gb/

it shows the gpu performance

But from what i see, it might be the resolution difference

Unfortunately, those scores are theoretical. It's not that Far Cry 3 runs that bad, it doesn't, at least without MSAA Anti Alising on. Getting between 35 and 70FPS on Ultra settings is not bad, averaging around 45~50 FPS. Borderlands 2, it runs really well, aside on specific places where frame rates drop to about 25.

Originally Posted by Tonim89

Trigger, get a cheaper MB.

If you don't plan to build a multi gpu, you can get an Gigabyte Z77X-D3H.

I do if I have the chance, but that mobo does accept SLI or x-fire. And from a review I read, its pretty good, the only downside of what I wrote is the 4pin on the CPU instead of 8.

Thanks for the recommendation.

[TriggerWolf]

Ok guys, sorry for double posting but I thought I'd give an update to this current situation. I managed to get my budget doubled

So, I guess christmas came a day earlier for me lol. I pulled the trigger and got myself a whole new rig! woot

Case: Corsair Graphite 600T White
Motherboard: Maximus V Formula
CPU: Core i5 3570k
GPU: EVGA GTX 670
RAM: Kingston HyperX Beast 2133MHz CL11 2x4GB
Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100i

Unfortunately I can't put it together yet as the motherboard and case are back ordered. They should arrive sometime later this week.

But I already did some tests with what I could in this rig, the GPU


I can safely confirm that my CPU is absolutely being a bottleneck. Here are a few rough benchmarks I did in a few minutes, but enough to take big conclusions.

FarCry3
No MSAA Antialiasing:
GTX470- Min: 35FPS, Max: 75FPS
GTX670- Min: 35FPS, Max: 75FPS
With MSAA AA 8x:
GTX470- Min: 20FPS, Max: 28FPS
GTX670- Min: 35FPS, Max: 38FPS

Absolutely no change at all without MSAA AA. The GPU usage stays at about 60~70%, whilst CPU skyrockets to over 90% on all cores.

Borderlands 2
VSync on: (I don't know why but turning it off it keeps capping at 60FPS)
GTX470- Min: 20FPS, Max: 60FPS
GTX670- Min: 35FPS, Max: 60FPS

GTX670 usage when on min FPS is at about 30%. GTX470 as physx was at about 15%. Still the same problem as before.


TES 5: Skyrim
ENB on, no SSAO. Vsync on:
GTX470- Min: 32FPS, Max: 60FPS (An average of about 40FPS)
GTX670- Min: 60FPS, Max: 60FPS

I got a big improvement on Skyrim, as I suspected.


I'll post a build log when I get the remaining parts.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks everyone and merry christmas.