TechPowerUp! Official IC Diamond Test

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

Like I said it is physically impossible on our end where we have control - Lack of any proof like a .1 carat diamond stone not found in your clean up there is nothing to find out.

I never did get a recent sample.

I also did say that this might happen, so asked for direct shipping, since you claim it MUST be contamination. Yet here we sit, several years alter after my first incident, with many other users reporting issues.


There MUST be something to this issue. This is not a matter of placing blame on you guys directly...rather, an investigation to see what the common factor is here that made for all of these users, myself included many years ago, having the exact same problem from a sampled product.

Since it was samples, many of us consider this "beta" testing, and as such, accept that there are risks involved. In an effort to minimize this risk, users with the problem, are more than likely not going to be happy with the response "you contaminated your sample", when for some users, they took the package out of the envelope, removed the lid, and applied the paste, only to be met with problems later on.

How is it that we ALL manage to contaminate our IC diamond, and are met with similar issues?


As to staining, I do have a solution, and that is to use Artic Silver Cleaning Solution. This two-part cleaner first emulsifies TIM and leaves an oily layer that forces particles to raise off the surface being cleaned. A second chemical, that in the least contains citric acid, removes the left over oil.

It cleans far better that just Isopropyl, even 99.999%(which is what I used to use until I tried this product.).


I wonder if this cleaner will help with "staining" issues?

I can agree that surface contamination is very possible, since dust is floating in near everyone's home, and nearly no-one assembles their system in a clean room. If contamination is really such an issue, perhaps this product wasn't meant for home use.


I know, for a fact, I followed direction explicitly, but was met with issues, your claim of not being possible or not. I will never back down form this, because that's what happened. I got my tube, opened the envelope, cleaned the heatsink and GPU with isopropyl using a soft cotton cloth, opened the tube, applied the paste, installed the heatsink, installed the GPU, and it didn't work.

I hate to say I told you so...but I told ya this would happen, and that was why I wanted you to send me a sample directly, which you refused. That definitely didn't build any confidence in your products on my end.

And I bet all these users here reporting issues will not recommend your product, either. For you to just say "it's not our fault"...well...that's not nice to hear. Just saying.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I never did get a recent sample.

I also did say that this might happen, so asked for direct shipping, since you claim it MUST be contamination. Yet here we sit, several years alter after my first incident, with many other users reporting issues.


There MUST be something to this issue. This is not a matter of placing blame on you guys directly...rather, an investigation to see what the common factor is here that made for all of these users, myself included many years ago, having the exact same problem from a sampled product.

Since it was samples, many of us consider this "beta" testing, and as such, accept that there are risks involved. In an effort to minimize this risk, users with the problem, are more than likely not going to be happy with the response "you contaminated your sample", when for some users, they took the package out of the envelope, removed the lid, and applied the paste, only to be met with problems later on.

How is it that we ALL manage to contaminate our IC diamond, and are met with similar issues?


As to staining, I do have a solution, and that is to use Artic Silver Cleaning Solution. This two-part cleaner first emulsifies TIM and leaves an oily layer that forces particles to raise off the surface being cleaned. A second chemical, that in the least contains citric acid, removes the left over oil.

It cleans far better that just Isopropyl, even 99.999%(which is what I used to use until I tried this product.).


I wonder if this cleaner will help with "staining" issues?

I can agree that surface contamination is very possible, since dust is floating in near everyone's home, and nearly no-one assembles their system in a clean room. If contamination is really such an issue, perhaps this product wasn't meant for home use.


I know, for a fact, I followed direction explicitly, but was met with issues, your claim of not being possible or not. I will never back down form this, because that's what happened. I got my tube, opened the envelope, cleaned the heatsink and GPU with isopropyl using a soft cotton cloth, opened the tube, applied the paste, installed the heatsink, installed the GPU, and it didn't work.

I hate to say I told you so...but I told ya this would happen, and that was why I wanted you to send me a sample directly, which you refused. That definitely didn't build any confidence in your products on my end.

And I bet all these users here reporting issues will not recommend your product, either. For you to just say "it's not our fault"...well...that's not nice to hear. Just saying.

The fact here is the particle size is on a scale as to be physically impossible to create and scaling the picture and measuring the mark it appears to be too large to even fit through the tip of the syringe and any damage is more likely due to contamination on the install.
[/QUOTE]

Like I said it is physically impossible on our end where we have control - Lack of any proof like a .1 carat diamond stone not found in your clean up there is nothing to find out.

Also note we sell a commercial version to OEM's with an acetate to thin it so that it can be silk screened on same compound samples you have, same batch just with the added acetate- approximately 100 kg a month and that is 2600 lbs of diamond give or take per year applied through a fine mesh screen and if diamond stones were turning up We would not be meeting spec and they would cease to be our customer and so no stones and they are still our customers.

[cadaveca]

Yes, yes, you've said this all before, and doesn't answer why this "contamination" is such an issue.


Because no matter how you deny it, it seemingly is a potential problem, or you'd not have these prepared responses, re-posted over and over again.



I'll tell you what. What some other product makers do, when confronted with such issues, is ask for samples to be returned, so that this problem can be investigated.


You, you're refusing to even acknowledge users having an issue, and seemingly just blame the end user. Home end users don't care about your big business customers, and having such clients doesn't create any confidence or sympathy. They get a different product, admitted by yourself above, so why even mention it?

You asked for proof from me in the past, I posted pictures of the chunk and the obvious bad mixing in the tube evident when the label was removed(the product in the tube had both darker and lighter areas, and the chunks where in the darker areas), and that post magically disappeared off that forum. You had proof, and did nothing is the past, why would you do it now?

Anyway, hopefully many user have no issues, but when this problem gets brought up, I'll bring my canned responses back to go along with yours.

[adulaamin]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

The fact here is the particle size is on a scale as to be physically impossible to create and scaling the picture and measuring the mark it appears to be too large to even fit through the tip of the syringe and any damage is more likely due to contamination on the install.

There may be some other factor other than particle size that caused the pits/scratches? A chemical reaction maybe with some ingredient in the paste and copper? Just my 2 cents...

And just like what cadaveca said:

If contamination is really such an issue, perhaps this product wasn't meant for home use.

[sneekypeet]

@ Dave, I did get a sample of this paste, three tubes actually. Wouldn't you know it, the one tube I picked, and the first application of TIM I used with this paste left scratches in my IHS and the cooler I used on it.

Contamination my ass! This was simply a chunk of "stuff" in the compound that ground into the metals as I spun the cooler a bit to release if from the grip of the TIM.

First impressions are everything to me, and this IC Diamond stuff has some issues that need fixed before I would send it all over the planet to scratch up users equipment. I never did try the other tubes, but after seeing what the first one did, I don't want to even try them.

So now I can use other TIMs, but I still have a curved scratch in my IHS and also in the base of one of my favorite Noctua coolers

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by sneekypeet

@ Dave, I did get a sample of this paste, three tubes actually. Wouldn't you know it, the one tube I picked, and the first application of TIM I used with this paste left scratches in my IHS and the cooler I used on it.

Contamination my ass! This was simply a chunk of "stuff" in the compound that ground into the metals as I spun the cooler a bit to release if from the grip of the TIM.

First impressions are everything to me, and this IC Diamond stuff has some issues that need fixed before I would send it all over the planet to scratch up users equipment. I never did try the other tubes, but after seeing what the first one did, I don't want to even try them.

So now I can use other TIMs, but I still have a curved scratch in my IHS and also in the base of one of my favorite Noctua coolers

Pull the label off the tube, and look for discolouration.


10 uesrs here with "Staining".

Scratching..sure..it's very similar to a polishing compound, and wiping the TIM off the surface would, in essence, be polishing it.

Personally, I think staining is something that you must deal with, and it can be cleaned, and minor scuffing of the surface, fine, since it is quite similar to a polishing compound.

Large chunks, and discolouration IN THE TUBE, I do not know the source of, or excuse.


Really, I don't care. It works good, when it's not chunky. But do me a favor..pull those labels, look for mixed colour in the tube, and if you find it, post a pic.

Honestly, what I think is that this should come in single-application packaging, not syringes.

[Arctucas]

Ahem...

Not meaning to distract anyone from the scratching and staining or other 'damage' issues, but whatever happened to the promise of making the Fuji pressure film available for sale?

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

Ahem...

Not meaning to distract anyone from the scratching and staining or other 'damage' issues, but whatever happened to the promise of making the Fuji pressure film available for sale?

Oh interesting, my internet is suddenly painfully slow.

[sneekypeet]

@ Dave again...

Tubes are fine all solid grey.
As for the base scratch its one deep one, not really a polishing effect.
As for the base of the Noctua, you know the grooves left from the milling, well it looks like there is now holes in the base from where these bits crushed the tips of the high spots.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Yes, yes, you've said this all before, and doesn't answer why this "contamination" is such an issue.


Because no matter how you deny it, it seemingly is a potential problem, or you'd not have these prepared responses.

I'll tell you what. What some other product makers do, when confronted with such issues, is ask for samples to be returned, so that this problem can be investigated.


You, you're refusing to even acknowledge users having an issue, and seemingly just blame them. Home end users don't care about your big business customers,??? you missed the point and having such clients doesn't create any confidence or sympathy.

Well what do you want? Pictures posted here as proof of damage are what end users posted themselves so we provide an open analysis and argument here on a public forum - That's an acknowledgement, I do not believe we are hiding or obscuring anything if fact we have been nothing but upfront.

Feel free to argue the proof not some vague accusation or a miss characterization of our character

If a user has damage and posts it (a picture) and it bears no reasonable relationship to the implied problem such as being totally and completely physically impossible to the 99.99999999 chance in hell I am supposed to do what?

Please note just to humour you we pulled a 2kg sample from that batch and checked it for large stones and found none, go figure.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by sneekypeet

@ Dave again...

Tubes are fine all solid grey.
As for the base scratch its one deep one, not really a polishing effect.
As for the base of the Noctua, you know the grooves left from the milling, well it looks like there is now holes in the base from where these bits crushed the tips of the high spots.

IF you squeeze out more paste, and you find more bits? Would make an interesting picture.


Myself, of course, it was like 5 years ago. there were many large chunks, visible through the tube itself, and dark areas in the paste. Personally, I just bought the whole contamination thing, blamed the person who sent it to me, and then when this opportunity presented itself again, I askeds for another sample, sent directly, which never happened.

Now you guys have similar issues, so I will not accept contamination, really, unless the person who shipped you the sample, the person they got it from, the mailman, or your signifigant other, heck even yourself..are trying to sabotage you.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

Ahem...

Not meaning to distract anyone from the scratching and staining or other 'damage' issues, but whatever happened to the promise of making the Fuji pressure film available for sale?

Just got around to cutting it up and will be sending it out to 5 resellers for their test marketing-

four in the USA and one in the UK

[sneekypeet]

Noctua NH-L12 base damage after using ICDiamond


As soon as i get my CPU free I will get an image of that in here as well.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

Well what do you want? Pictures posted here as proof of damage are what end users posted themselves so we provide an open analysis and argument here on a public forum - That's an acknowledgement, I do not believe we are hiding or obscuring anything if fact we have been nothing but upfront.

Feel free to argue the proof not some vague accusation or a miss characterization of our character

If a user has damage and posts it (a picture) and it bears no reasonable relationship to the implied problem such as being totally and completely physically impossible to the 99.99999999 chance in hell I am supposed to do what?

Please note just to humour you we pulled a 2kg sample from that batch and checked it for large stones and found none, go figure.

Honestly, I don't really care that much.

Honestly, I believe you that contamination happened, but I do not believe it is the end user, or the product maker, unless extremely careless.


However, I think that you pulling sample from that batch is cool and all.. but that might not be what the end user gets. You need THEIR samples, you need the wipes used to clean the paste..I agree with you on all of this.


You need careful tracking of an issue to identify it's cause.

but why do many users find big chunks here. It is not one or two. And frankly, most of these users, I don't get along with, so it's quite pleasurable for me to see that they report issues similar to my own, since it does seem to justify me posting that this might be a problem, earlier.


I don't care what you do, since I have not had your product except that sample sent near 5 years ago. I wanted to try again, you refused to send me some.


I reported a potential problem, here are other users reporting the same problem. That's all there is here.

I think, performance-wise, IC24 was good, but those chunks did turn me off. With the part of the sample not "contaminated", I noticed a 7c drop vs AS5, which is great, and the product is priced similar to AS5.

Since that is true, I just want it to be a success. Please fix these problems. That is all I ask.


No way should users be reporting problems like this. You say so yourself. But it does re-occur, and only with this product. Why, I am not sure.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

Just got around to cutting it up and will be sending it out to 5 resellers for their test marketing-

four in the USA and one in the UK

Thanks for the update.

Any idea when it will be available for retail purchase? What about pricing/quantity?

Thanks again.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Honestly, I don't really care that much.

Honestly, I believe you that contamination happened, but I do not believe it is the end user, or the product maker, unless extremely careless.


However, I think that you pulling sample from that batch is cool and all.. but that might not be what the end user gets. You need THEIR samples, you need the wipes used to clean the paste..I agree with you on all of this.


You need careful tracking of an issue to identify it's cause.

but why do many users find big chunks here. It is not one or two. And frankly, most of these users, I don't get along with, so it's quite pleasurable for me to see that they report issues similar to my own, since it does seem to justify me posting that this might be a problem, earlier.


I don't care what you do, since I have not had your product except that sample sent near 5 years ago. I wanted to try again, you refused to send me some.


I reported a potential problem, here are other users reporting the same problem. That's all there is here.

I think, performance-wise, IC24 was good, but those chunks did turn me off. With the part of the sample not "contaminated", I noticed a 7c drop vs AS5, which is great, and the product is priced similar to AS5.

Since that is true, I just want it to be a success. Please fix these problems. That is all I ask.


No way should users be reporting problems like this. You say so yourself. But it does re-occur, and only with this product. Why, I am not sure.

Problem is nobody in 5 years has posted a pic of "chunk" of diamond.

In 5 years I have never had a complaint from a reseller about chunks of diamond or scratches.

in 5 years I have never had an email or a phone call complaint on chunks of diamond or scratches

In fact this is the only forum where I am hearing many complaints but no proof offered and if I did not know better I would suspect it was one of my competitors trying to swamp the thread as they do occasionally.

[sneekypeet]

I just added proof a few posts up?!?!?!?!

As for a competitor, neither Dave nor I are anything in the realm of your competition

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

Problem is nobody in 5 years has posted a pic of "chunk" of diamond.

In 5 years I have never had a complaint from a reseller about chunks of diamond or scratches.

in 5 years I have never had an email or a phone call complaint on chunks of diamond or scratches

In fact this is the only forum where I am hearing many complaints but no proof offered and if I did not know better I would suspect it was one of my competitors trying to swamp the thread as they do occasionally.

You do not remember me and one other user on Hardware Canucks, about 5 years ago when you did similar on that forum? That's unfortunate, but not surprising, since those posts magically do not exist any more.


The fact Sneekypeet and I agree on something.. well..

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by sneekypeet

I just added proof a few posts up?!?!?!?!

As for a competitor, neither Dave nor I are anything in the realm of your competition

Lol I do not see anything at all -you have to help me out on this one where?

how about a before pic? idly posting pics is not proof, get serious I could take a hammer to my sink post the pic and claim damage.

substantiate it, give me something that is connected

[AthlonX2]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

The fact Sneekypeet and I agree on something.. well..

Indeed

[sneekypeet]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

The fact Sneekypeet and I agree on something.. well..

lulz. Maybe we just pay more attention than the average user?

@ IC Diamond dude....

Image of the cooler base from the factory...


Image of base with pitting in it from use of your thermal paste....

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by IC Diamond

how about a before pic? idly posting pics is not proof, get serious I could take a hammer to my sink post the pic and claim damage.

True enough.

Unless, of course, the user reporting the issue doesn't expect anything other than to report their experience.

I do get where you are coming from though.

Originally Posted by sneekypeet

lulz. Maybe we just pay more attention than the average user?

Meh. That's the downside to doing what we do. Ignorance is bliss, so they say...

[sneekypeet]

how about a before pic? idly posting pics is not proof, get serious I could take a hammer to my sink post the pic and claim damage.

Oh no I am only here to demand you replace the TIM that come free to me, and replace the cooler, which also came free to me... Seriously?!?!?!

Seriously, maybe you should ask your boss to take over here, as you are just frustrated and pushing the blame. I have no reason to lie nor do I have a reason to just show up throwing around random claims. If you are not willing to accept that your TIM is not "perfect" in every instance, I don't know why I am continually talking to the IC Diamond wall!

[t_ski]

I am very familiar with manufacturing processes and QC testing, and I can guarantee that only a small portion of samples are actually tested. If any manufacturer were to take the time to 100% inspect all of their product, it would cost too much and probably introduce contamination into the product.

You say prove that there was something wrong, and these guys have posted it.

You say how do I know it wasn't that way to start with and they show you the before pics.

You say how much I've never heard of anybody having trouble with this until I came here, yet the reputation of your company was in question many times when the thread was started.

I don't know what else can be said. These guys are reviewers and not in the pocket of your competitors. They see lots and lots of tech: high, middle and low end, and their word has a lot more merit around here than yours.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by sneekypeet

Oh no I am only here to demand you replace the TIM that come free to me, and replace the cooler, which also came free to me... Seriously?!?!?!

Seriously, maybe you should ask your boss to take over here, as you are just frustrated and pushing the blame. I have no reason to lie nor do I have a reason to just show up throwing around random claims. If you are not willing to accept that your TIM is not "perfect" in every instance, I don't know why I am continually talking to the IC Diamond wall!

Thanks that's what I needed

to be fair apply some filters, contrast, brightness to the first image and you make the imperfections in the factory fresh version stand out and it appears to be some match to the after picture "damage" I do not have time time now but tomorrow I will do some work resizing and perhaps do a see-through overlay to see how it all lines up.

A shiny copper imperfection would not be as visible as an oxidized "hole"

Can you post a full size version of the before pic or factory fresh sink higher resolution would give me more points to line up?