High resolution + High pixel density club

[lemonadesoda]

This thread is for people who like or are enthusiastic about high resolution panels and high pixel density. The sort of thing that IBM brought to us in 2001 with their T210, T220 and T221 TFTs.



The sort of thing that Apple (and their OEMs) have brought to us more recently with their retina panels.

The sort of thing we are still waiting for in the PC world. Especially on the desktop. Grrr.

This thread is not for naysayers who say VGA is good enough, and that Windows cannot scale. Innovation needs to start somewhere... and don't expect it to start with MS. I once saw someone post that more than 150 dpi serves no purpose. Tell that to the printer manufacturers! I'm sure they would love to sell us 150dpi printers again! I once heard someone say 1080 is enough for gaming... but don't forget to turn on AA to make it look better! LOL.



Do you use cleartype? If you do, then you are already trying to get a higher dot per inch than your display gives native. Using shader-tricks to smooth the jaggies. With a higher resolution screen+higher pixel density, things just look lots better

I will not be satisfied until I can have a A4/Letter PDF on the screen scaled 1:1 and clearly legible, as good as a printout. THAT is my benchmark. 300dpi minimum, meaning 4K or better screens in a desktop format (ie less than 24"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution

++++++++++++++++++

Please post any links to interesting high res, high pixel density news. Or indeed reviews of said products. I think this is going to be a painful thread until products start hitting the market and high pixel density (outside smartphones) starts taking off. Anyway, let's hope it comes sooner rather than later.

[lemonadesoda]

Not desktop, but high resolution on laptop: http://www.pcworld.com/article/20243...-displays.html

4K screens are finally coming to the (upper end) consumer. Hopefully this will mean panels will also be made at a size suitable for the desktop. Give it 12 months. http://www.techhive.com/article/2024...ty-video-.html

[Frick]

Originally Posted by lemonadesoda

4K screens are finally coming to the (upper end) consumer. Hopefully this will mean panels will also be made at a size suitable for the desktop. Give it 12 months. http://www.techhive.com/article/2024...ty-video-.html

I've said exactly the same thing about 1440/1600 for more than a year now.

[lemonadesoda]

Originally Posted by Frick

I've said exactly the same thing about 1440/1600 for more than a year now.

Yes, you and me too. This is taking too long!

[erixx]

This is one of the few things that will make this new year interesting!

Of the typical set: Computer(SSD),keyboard,mouse=more or less stabilized performance

What part would REALLY improve the user experience: big HD monitors.

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I'm a bit concerned about 4k. Microsoft has made zero progress on scaling issues. 1440p at 27" is just about perfect as far as size and sharpness goes, but with 4k things either shrink or you have to use some buggy scaling system. The PC world is not at all prepared for this transition.

[lemonadesoda]

No naysaying. We don't want problems, we want solutions!

(yes, Windows is not the best scaler, but it does work quite well when applications use the standard windows API... the problem is independent programmers who like to create funky "skins". The Asian BIOS firmware/driver/utility community is the worst!)

I've not had a problem with font and windows scaling with Windows OS, fonts, inbuilt apps, MS Office or Adobe products.

Anyway, in a worst case situation, just set Windows to 1280x1024 to drive a panel at 2560x2048. Then switch the resolution only when using applications that conform to windows scaling mechanism.

[xBruce88x]

Originally Posted by LAN_deRf_HA

I'm a bit concerned about 4k. Microsoft has made zero progress on scaling issues. 1440p at 27" is just about perfect as far as size and sharpness goes, but with 4k things either shrink or you have to use some buggy scaling system. The PC world is not at all prepared for this transition.

This is my issue with high res so far... scaling. I don't need a thousand icons to fit on my desktop background... I'd like to have the few icons, and text in general still appear the same size as say... 1280x1024 on a much higher res screen but look smoother due to the extra density.

I finally gave up on such hi res displays (for now) due to dpi scaling... however its not as big an issue with web browsers since you can zoom and the gpu tends to filter this nice and smooth like when you pinch to zoom on an android or apple phone.

Right now i'm using a Sony Trenitron KV-34HS510 as my main display. It'll do 1080i, but right now its set to 720p. It's good enough for me, so far. had to compensate for an overscan issue though but not so bad.

edit: @lemonadesoda... yea i agree about the 3rd party issue as well.

[Easy Rhino]

microsoft has never been a leader in the industry. ever. apple is the only corporation willing to have a vision and take a gamble on new technology. apple leads the way and supports the brightest minds in IT.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

microsoft has never been a leader in the industry. ever. apple is the only corporation willing to have a vision and take a gamble on new technology. apple leads the way and supports the brightest minds in IT.

Now I wouldn't go that far, but they are doing quite well with high res monitors something M$ sucks at. It is only a matter of time progress is progress.

It does frustrate me that I can get an Ipad with a better resolution than most computer monitors I have been wanting 3840x2160 for a while now.

[Easy Rhino]

Originally Posted by cdawall

Now I wouldn't go that far

please, apple leads the mobile market with innovate solutions that M$ is JUST getting into. also, M$ servers are poop versions of unix varients who continually push hardware to its limits. it took M$ way to long to get into virtualization. pathetic.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

please, apple leads the mobile market with innovate solutions that M$ is JUST getting into. also, M$ servers are poop versions of unix varients who continually push hardware to its limits. it took M$ way to long to get into virtualization. pathetic.

No Apple takes products that already exist and push the marketing of them. The Ipod was predated by IBM with a product that not only played music but did so to a bluetooth headset...There are instances for each and every other product they sell or have sold. Apple is very very good at taking something that exists changing it to be white with a button that has a square on it and selling it for an immense profit. If you want to follow that company be my guest. Just remember M$ bailed Apple out when it failed.

[FordGT90Concept]

The HDTV standards came in and kicked PC monitor makers to the curb. The only way we're going to so resolutions greater than 2560x1600 on PC for a reasonable price is if the HDTV industry forces it on everyone...which is likely. If a monitor manufacturer wants more money, what better way to get more sales than obsolete all the TVs out there? There are millions of people out there that will buy whatever is "new and improved." Consumerism bit the TV market in the ass all thanks (or no thanks) to the digital television standards (DVD, PAL, ATSC, BluRay, etc.).

[Easy Rhino]

Originally Posted by cdawall

No Apple takes products that already exist and push the marketing of them. The Ipod was predated by IBM with a product that not only played music but did so to a bluetooth headset...There are instances for each and every other product they sell or have sold. Apple is very very good at taking something that exists changing it to be white with a button that has a square on it and selling it for an immense profit. If you want to follow that company be my guest. Just remember M$ bailed Apple out when it failed.

right, but apple currently leads the mobile market and has done so since 2007. of course they reworked other products, most successful products are that way. the difference is apple took a gamble and showed vision. two things M$ does not have. if apple reworks older products than what does that make M$

[lemonadesoda]

Yes. 10 years ago the "workstation" market drove innovation in the PC industry. That has gone. It is now consumer products that lead, and PC industry keeps up. For hi-res TFTs we (unfortunately) have to wait for the consumer products to drive the change. Thankfully, everyone has 1080 TVs and 4K is now the new goal. 4K consumer will FINALLY drive PC to better screens. YES, the tail is wagging the dog. I want my 4K screen yesterday, but will probably have to wait until xBox 4000 is released before 4K screens are available let alone at affordable prices.

[Easy Rhino]

You won't see 4K programming on your television for 10 years. We need better algorithms to sqeeze data through our coax ISP networks.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

please, apple leads the mobile market with innovate solutions that M$ is JUST getting into. also, M$ servers are poop versions of unix varients who continually push hardware to its limits. it took M$ way to long to get into virtualization. pathetic.

Apple leads in overpriced products and a huge marketing division, nothing more.

[Kreij]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

You won't see 4K programming on your television for 10 years. We need better algorithms to sqeeze data through our coax ISP networks.

First UHD TV Channel Launches In Europe
Content streams at 40Mbs, so I imagine your connection would have to be somewhat better than that.

Some movies were shot in 4K back in 2009 and 2010, and some recently More will be as UHD TVs become widespread. Sony was sending a server (loaning it) with 10 movies on it to people who bought the UHDs so they had something to watch.

I don't think it will take 10 years.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Kreij

First UHD TV Channel Launches In Europe
Content streams at 40Mbs, so I imagine your connection would have to be somewhat better than that.

Some movies were shot in 4K back in 2009 and 2010, and some recently More will be as UHD TVs become widespread. Sony was sending a server (loaning it) with 10 movies on it to people who bought the UHDs so they had something to watch.

I don't think it will take 10 years.

The majority of cable is still SD, I could easily see it taking the better part of 10 years, and probably at least 10 years for HD to take over SD as the majority.

The cable companies are a monopoly, they can take their time, and they will.

[Easy Rhino]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

Apple leads in overpriced products and a huge marketing division, nothing more.

i would agree with you if this was 2008. the truth is you don't last long and survive on marketing alone if you make crap. apple makes the best. deal with it.

Originally Posted by Kreij

First UHD TV Channel Launches In Europe
Content streams at 40Mbs, so I imagine your connection would have to be somewhat better than that.

Some movies were shot in 4K back in 2009 and 2010, and some recently More will be as UHD TVs become widespread. Sony was sending a server (loaning it) with 10 movies on it to people who bought the UHDs so they had something to watch.

I don't think it will take 10 years.

40mbps! ha, we are so far behind. could you imagine 50 million tv viewers watching 4k content all at once on our network. buffer central. and that even means they switch to IP based content delivery, something they havn't begun to plan for.

[Kreij]

@3870 : I too believe it will be years before we see any kind of widespread adoption in the U.S with the exception of areas that already have fiber to the home. My ISP (which I use for television and phone also) has a max of 20Mbs but their techs told me they would probably bump that to 50Mbs soon as the networks will handle it.

In other countries, however, that could happen a lot sooner as the infrastructure is already in place for that kind of bandwidth.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

i would agree with you if this was 2008. the truth is you don't last long and survive on marketing alone if you make crap. apple makes the best. deal with it.




40mbps! ha, we are so far behind. could you imagine 50 million tv viewers watching 4k content all at once on our network. buffer central. and that even means they switch to IP based content delivery, something they havn't begun to plan for.

Their products are good because of excellent devs and engineers. This doesn't change the fact they are overpriced.

If I wanted to play triple for something with less capability than what I have, I'll turn to Apple. (The iPad is a Caveat to this, but only because of it's online store capabilities rival that of Google Play, although gimped. Still overpriced)

If I want an expensive designer product that is also useful for browsing the Internet, I'll turn to Apple.

However, if It want a no bullshit product that gets the job done, Apple is the last place I will look.

[Easy Rhino]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

Their products are good because of excellent devs and engineers. This doesn't change the fact they are overpriced.

If I wanted to play triple for something with less capability than what I have, I'll turn to Apple.

please spec out two laptops, one apple and one not apple. show me the prices. rules: must be same monitor size, same hdd size, same ram, same cpu, same weight and same unibody design.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

please spec out two laptops, one apple and one not apple. show me the prices. rules: must be same monitor size, same hdd size, same ram, same cpu, same weight and same unibody design.

We should probably stop talking about this, it is a bit off topic.

To answer your post: if you take the arbitrary "unibody design", we are looking at about every laptop in production. As for screen size (I assume you mean resolution) who wants to pay an extra $800 for 1600p "retina".

Nexus 10 vs iPad says more than I'll ever need to say on this subject.

[LAN_deRf_HA]

On plus side OLED and 4k are likely to be bundled together. Those Sony/Panasonic panels should be on the market this year.