AMD FX OC'ers Club - Page 46

cadaveca · Jan 29, 2013, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irony

Whats the deal with AMD not having any Pcie 3.0?

PCIe is provided by the chipset, and can be added at any time, but will wait until when it's truly beneficial to the platform. I don't see any reason for AM3+ to need it, myself.

os2wiz · Jan 29, 2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irony

I've been looking into that board too. Dont know that it would be worth changing from my current board, fatal1ty with the same 12+2 power phase. I'll be watching your reviews

Whats the deal with AMD not having any Pcie 3.0?

Probably coming next chip set revision when steamroller comes. It is really irrelevant right now. The current generation of graphics cards with pcie 3.0 give little or no performance benefit over pcie 2.1

eidairaman1 · Jan 29, 2013, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by os2wiz

Probably coming next chip set revision when steamroller comes. It is really irrelevant right now. The current generation of graphics cards with pcie 3.0 give little or no performance benefit over pcie 2.1

They are expanding the free way before it becomes congested. I suspect with SR a 1070FX and 1090FX chipset will release (which will have PEG 3.0, USB 3.0, Thunder/Lightning Bolt, ESATA/SATA 3.0 etc etc)

os2wiz · Jan 29, 2013, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

They are expanding the free way before it becomes congested. I suspect with SR a 1070FX and 1090FX chipset will release (which will have PEG 3.0, USB 3.0, Thunder/Lightning Bolt, ESATA/SATA 3.0 etc etc)

You sure a 1070 chip set will also have the FX designation ? That has not been the case previously and until your post I have heard nothing from AMD to confirm this.

eidairaman1 · Jan 29, 2013, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by os2wiz

You sure a 1070 chip set will also have the FX designation ? That has not been the case previously and until your post I have heard nothing from AMD to confirm this.

You didn't read my post thoroughly. I said I suspec.

os2wiz · Jan 29, 2013, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

You didn't read my post thoroughly. I said I suspect fool.

Well I supect the fool is not me since I saw the 1070 chipset for what it would most likely be by historical standards NOT with an FX designation.

eidairaman1 · Jan 29, 2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by os2wiz

Well I supect the fool is not me since I saw the 1070 chipset for what it would most likely be by historical standards NOT with an FX designation.

Pardon 1070 1090X 1090 FX

os2wiz · Jan 29, 2013, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

Pardon fool 1070 1090X 1090 FX

I liked our prior interaction before negatives were added to it. let's be more comradely, it makes for a more uplifting experience. Take care brother.

HammerON · Jan 29, 2013, 07:49 AM

Remain civil folks

johnnyfiive · Jan 29, 2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I have the Extreme9 here for review, will be checking it out soon. Just installing OS on it today, actually, will be testing all week. Got some 1155 and a memory review to come first on the front page, though.

ooooooooo, hurry up dave!

Speaking of Extreme9, the price is pretty damn good:
ASRock 990FX Extreme9 AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s US...

Altered · Feb 2, 2013, 12:37 AM

Got my new FX 8320 all warmed up. Just figured Id join the thread not to sure what my peak OC will be as I am very satisfied with 4.4. I haven't got to play with a AMD in years so I'm having a little fun.
Ill take any comments criticism tips etc.
Not sure these are good or average numbers.
Cinebench 7.57
IBT passes on High

Max temp 51c according to CPUID

Update: Got it to 4.5 temps are staying 51c Max.

Mathragh · Feb 2, 2013, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altered

Got my new FX 8320 all warmed up. Just figured Id join the thread not to sure what my peak OC will be as I am very satisfied with 4.4. I haven't got to play with a AMD in years so I'm having a little fun.
Ill take any comments criticism tips etc.
Not sure these are good or average numbers.
Cinebench 7.57
IBT passes on High

Max temp 51c according to CPUID

Update: Got it to 4.5 temps are staying 51c Max.

Nice results dude! those temperatures are nice and safe

I'd say if you're lucky you can push it even further(if you're up for it).

johnnyfiive · Feb 2, 2013, 09:10 PM

Not too shabby.

Irony · Feb 2, 2013, 10:22 PM

I think I'm gonna move back to just 8gb of RAM. Mainly because its basically pointless to have 16 and easier to overclock a single set of dual channel. The other 8 are going in a LAN rig I'm making with a friend, which is also gonna be FX based. What do you think, I'm not decided between 4100, 4300 or 6100. All are in the price range, not sure if the extra 200mhz between 4100 and 4300 justify it and I don't know if the extra 2 cores on 6100 are worth another $15 or whatever it is.

One more thing about RAM, I wanna pick the two best sticks to keep, is there any quickish way to see which ones are most stable without overclocking them one at a time?

@Johnnyfive, nice score.

I got a little less than that at 4.7. Mine needs more volts than yours at that speed too.

eidairaman1 · Feb 3, 2013, 06:29 PM

Go for the Hex Core

electech13 · Feb 8, 2013, 08:20 AM

Just curious what most here prefer to use to oc their FX chips? Mainly the 8350.

Asus or Gigabyte and between the GA-990FXA-UD3/5/7 vs M5A99FX Pro R2.0/Sabbertooth/Crosshair?

I currently have the Giga UD3 board and its pretty good. Can oc 4.5 to 4.85Ghz fairly easily and stable..want to go to 5.. but i'm finding a lot of fluctuations with the voltages and the clock speeds.. i've tried different LLC settings and have all the bios controls like c&q, ce1, c6, turbo, etc... all off. auto and manual voltages.. but seems to some throttling happening when under load.. and voltages change a lot.. other then that.. it's all good but I know the Digi+ power controls and the vrm's are supposedly better on Asus so that is why I'm considering the switch..

cdawall · Feb 8, 2013, 09:18 AM

I enjoy my chvf...

os2wiz · Feb 8, 2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electech13

Just curious what most here prefer to use to oc their FX chips? Mainly the 8350.

Asus or Gigabyte and between the GA-990FXA-UD3/5/7 vs M5A99FX Pro R2.0/Sabbertooth/Crosshair?

I currently have the Giga UD3 board and its pretty good. Can oc 4.5 to 4.85Ghz fairly easily and stable..want to go to 5.. but i'm finding a lot of fluctuations with the voltages and the clock speeds.. i've tried different LLC settings and have all the bios controls like c&q, ce1, c6, turbo, etc... all off. auto and manual voltages.. but seems to some throttling happening when under load.. and voltages change a lot.. other then that.. it's all good but I know the Digi+ power controls and the vrm's are supposedly better on Asus so that is why I'm considering the switch..

I would have to say there is a slight edge for Crosshair V but the Gigabyte 990FX UD-7 is in the same class and if you are so wasteful and extravagant to want to run a quad Crossfire gpu setup then it is the winner.

eidairaman1 · Feb 9, 2013, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by os2wiz

I would have to say there is a slight edge for Crosshair V but the Gigabyte 990FX UD-7 is in the same class and if you are so wasteful and extravagant to want to run a quad Crossfire gpu setup then it is the winner.

quadfire only works with Dual GPU cards. Theyve yet to have 4 vidcards in Crossfire in a machine ( not enough cable points)

cdawall · Feb 9, 2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

quadfire only works with Dual GPU cards. Theyve yet to have 4 vidcards in Crossfire in a machine ( not enough cable points)

No you have been able to quadfire since the HD 38X0 days. I had 4 3850 256mb's in quadfire back in the day.

Irony · Feb 9, 2013, 11:36 PM

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g...inity_review/2

os2wiz · Feb 10, 2013, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdawall

No you have been able to quadfire since the HD 38X0 days. I had 4 3850 256mb's in quadfire back in the day.

http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/.../011_58179.jpg

I am sure your correct on this because I saw a post by an authoritative user that the UD7 had full quad crossfire support at the x16 level.

erocker · Feb 10, 2013, 04:19 AM

Quad CrossFire technically works, though a Tri-CrossFire setup will generally work/scale better with more applications.

cdawall · Feb 10, 2013, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erocker

Quad CrossFire technically works, though a Tri-CrossFire setup will generally work/scale better with more applications.

I still have a rig setup running dual 3870X2's it semi scales in most new games with the last drivers that worked with it.

os2wiz · Feb 10, 2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erocker

Quad CrossFire technically works, though a Tri-CrossFire setup will generally work/scale better with more applications.

That is part of the reason I suggested it is wasteful and inefficient for the large sum of money expended.

System Name:	Eyefinity Gamer
Processor:	Intel i5 3570K @ 4.6 GHz
Motherboard:	ASUS Maximmus V Formula
Cooling:	Corsair H100
Memory:	16 GB G.Skill F3-2666C11Q-16GTXD
Video Card:	AMD Radeon HD7950 3GB x2 w/AMD Catalyst 12.10
Hard Disk:	OCZ Nocti 60GB mSATA, Crucial M4 120GB x2
Optical Drive:	LG BluRay/HD-DVD
CRT/LCD Model:	3x Dell U2412M
Case:	LianLi T60
Sound Card:	N/A
PSU:	Silverstone Strider 750W GOLD
Software:	Windows 8 Pro
Benchmarks:	Benchmarking is for suckers. ;)

Processor:	AMD FX-8350 at 4.65 GHZ
Motherboard:	Asus Crosshairs V rev 1.0
Cooling:	Corsair H100 closed loop liquid cpu cooler
Memory:	G. Skill Trident X 8GBx2 (16 GB)
Video Card:	Sapphire Radeon HD 7950
Hard Disk:	500 GB Samsung 840 Sata III SSD, Samsung 830 120 GB Sata III SSD, Corsair Force GT 120GB Sat III SSD
Optical Drive:	LG Sata II Blu Ray Burner
Case:	Rosewill BlackHawk Ultra Full Tower Gaming Case
PSU:	Kingwin Lazer Platinum 650 watt PSU
Software:	Windows 7 Ultimate and Windows 8 Pro
Benchmarks:	Cinebench 11.5 64 bit Open GL 81.46 FPS Cinebench 11.5 CPU 7.93

System Name:	BS03/04
Processor:	AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ 2.2GHz 1.5V
Motherboard:	DFI LanParty NFII Ultra-B Bios (TicTac 3D Fire R2)
Cooling:	4 Antec 80mm, TR SI-97 Adapted TT Big Typhoon Fan 120MM
Memory:	2GB Mushkin Redline 4000 @ 200 MHz 2.5V
Video Card:	Sapphire R1950Pro 512MB AGP 1.5V
Hard Disk:	250 & 400 GB Seagate Baracuda 10 SATA
Optical Drive:	2x Samsung Multiformat Rewritable Drives
CRT/LCD Model:	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V
Case:	Antec SX830 EATX Case
Sound Card:	Creative Labs SB XFi Xtreme Music & SB PCI 512
PSU:	Antec NEO HE 500 Watt
Software:	Windows 7 Home Premium
Benchmarks:	Win 7 Eval. CPU 3.9 Ram 4.5 Graphics 6.0 HD 5.7

Processor:	AMD FX-8350 at 4.65 GHZ
Motherboard:	Asus Crosshairs V rev 1.0
Cooling:	Corsair H100 closed loop liquid cpu cooler
Memory:	G. Skill Trident X 8GBx2 (16 GB)
Video Card:	Sapphire Radeon HD 7950
Hard Disk:	500 GB Samsung 840 Sata III SSD, Samsung 830 120 GB Sata III SSD, Corsair Force GT 120GB Sat III SSD
Optical Drive:	LG Sata II Blu Ray Burner
Case:	Rosewill BlackHawk Ultra Full Tower Gaming Case
PSU:	Kingwin Lazer Platinum 650 watt PSU
Software:	Windows 7 Ultimate and Windows 8 Pro
Benchmarks:	Cinebench 11.5 64 bit Open GL 81.46 FPS Cinebench 11.5 CPU 7.93

System Name:	BS03/04
Processor:	AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ 2.2GHz 1.5V
Motherboard:	DFI LanParty NFII Ultra-B Bios (TicTac 3D Fire R2)
Cooling:	4 Antec 80mm, TR SI-97 Adapted TT Big Typhoon Fan 120MM
Memory:	2GB Mushkin Redline 4000 @ 200 MHz 2.5V
Video Card:	Sapphire R1950Pro 512MB AGP 1.5V
Hard Disk:	250 & 400 GB Seagate Baracuda 10 SATA
Optical Drive:	2x Samsung Multiformat Rewritable Drives
CRT/LCD Model:	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V
Case:	Antec SX830 EATX Case
Sound Card:	Creative Labs SB XFi Xtreme Music & SB PCI 512
PSU:	Antec NEO HE 500 Watt
Software:	Windows 7 Home Premium
Benchmarks:	Win 7 Eval. CPU 3.9 Ram 4.5 Graphics 6.0 HD 5.7

Jan 29, 2013, 07:49 AM	#1134
HammerON The Watchful Moderator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Cold North Posts: 4,366 (2.83/day) Thanks: 3,986 Thanked 2,883 Times in 1,546 Posts System Specs	Remain civil folks

System Name:	Cruncher/Gamer
Processor:	i7 970
Motherboard:	ASUS Rampage III Extreme
Cooling:	H2O
Memory:	Patriot Viper Extreme 12GB 2000
Video Card:	2x VisionTek HD 7970's
Hard Disk:	OCZ Vertex 4 256GB x2 in Raid0 + WD 640GB
Optical Drive:	ASUS Blu-Ray
CRT/LCD Model:	Dell UltraSharp U3011 30"
Case:	Corsair Obsidian 800D
Sound Card:	On-board
PSU:	Corsair AX1200
Software:	Win 7 64bit
Benchmarks:	Always changing~

System Name:	K6-II 8320
Processor:	FX 8320 @ 4.7GHz (1.476v)
Motherboard:	Gigabyte 970 UD3
Cooling:	Corsair H100
Memory:	GSkill Ares 1866 8GB
Video Card:	Gigabyte 7870
Hard Disk:	Intel 330 120GB
Optical Drive:	LG R/W+/-[0_o]/
CRT/LCD Model:	Dell UltraSharp U2713HM
Case:	Corsair 400R
Sound Card:	Onboard
PSU:	Corsair GS700
Software:	Windows 8 Professional 64-Bit

Feb 2, 2013, 12:37 AM	#1136
Altered Join Date: May 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 791 (0.43/day) Thanks: 250 Thanked 126 Times in 116 Posts System Specs	Got my new FX 8320 all warmed up. Just figured Id join the thread not to sure what my peak OC will be as I am very satisfied with 4.4. I haven't got to play with a AMD in years so I'm having a little fun. Ill take any comments criticism tips etc. Not sure these are good or average numbers. Cinebench 7.57 IBT passes on High Max temp 51c according to CPUID Update: Got it to 4.5 temps are staying 51c Max. Attached Thumbnails __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked Last edited by Altered; Feb 2, 2013 at 03:34 AM.

System Name:	Demented
Processor:	AMD FX-8320 Vishera @ 4.5
Motherboard:	ASRock 970 EXTREME3
Cooling:	Thermaltake Frio
Memory:	G.SKILL Ripjaws Sniper Gaming Series 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Video Card:	XFX HD-695X-ZNFC Radeon HD 6950 1GB
Hard Disk:	(1)WD 500GB Black Edition (2)WD Raptors 74GB in RAID 0
Optical Drive:	Lite-On iHAS324 24X SATA DVD RW and Lite-On LTN-486S
CRT/LCD Model:	Hanns-G HZ251HPB 25" w/ Acer X163W 16" secondary
Case:	Antec P183 w/ Logitech M500 mouse & G11 keyboard
Sound Card:	Realtek High Definition Audio (On Board 7.1)
PSU:	Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W
Software:	Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium
Benchmarks:	3DMark03: 78527 3DMark05: 23530 3Dmark06: 3Dmark11: 5504 Vantage: 20888 AMD Overdrive: 13170

System Name:	Maffputer \|\| Mafftop
Processor:	AMD FX-8120 \|\| Core i5 460M
Motherboard:	Asus Sabertooth 990FX \|\| NBLB2
Cooling:	Corsair H100i Push-Pull\|\| Stock
Memory:	Samsung 30nm 4x4GB \|\| 2x4GB DDR3
Video Card:	AMD HD7950 + Gelid Icy Vision A \|\| Mobility Radeon 5650
Hard Disk:	Samsung 830 128GB + raid\|\| 320GB 7200 RPM
CRT/LCD Model:	Samsung S23A750D 120Hz + others\|\| 15,4" 1080p
Case:	Corsair 500R Fans Galore \|\| Laptop
Sound Card:	Asus Xonar DX/XD \|\| onboard
PSU:	Corsair AX860i \|\| 90Watt 19V OEM adaptor
Software:	Win 8 Prof 64bit \|\| Win 8 Prof 64bit

Feb 2, 2013, 09:10 PM	#1138
johnnyfiive Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,975 (1.60/day) Thanks: 740 Thanked 856 Times in 537 Posts System Specs	Not too shabby. __________________ [o_0] - GO BUCKEYES! ------------------------------------------------------ HEATWARE /MY KEYBOARD / VIDEO OF MY LGA 2011 RIG ------------------------------------------------------ Steam: johnnyfiive ORIGIN: johnny5iive League of Legends: 5iive

Feb 2, 2013, 10:22 PM	#1139
Irony Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: COC WhiterunOrigin Posts: 986 (1.62/day) Thanks: 372 Thanked 243 Times in 197 Posts System Specs	I think I'm gonna move back to just 8gb of RAM. Mainly because its basically pointless to have 16 and easier to overclock a single set of dual channel. The other 8 are going in a LAN rig I'm making with a friend, which is also gonna be FX based. What do you think, I'm not decided between 4100, 4300 or 6100. All are in the price range, not sure if the extra 200mhz between 4100 and 4300 justify it and I don't know if the extra 2 cores on 6100 are worth another $15 or whatever it is. One more thing about RAM, I wanna pick the two best sticks to keep, is there any quickish way to see which ones are most stable without overclocking them one at a time? @Johnnyfive, nice score. I got a little less than that at 4.7. Mine needs more volts than yours at that speed too. __________________ My Heatware When life gives you lemons, burn Life's house down.

System Name:	Ironic
Processor:	AMD FX8350 4.5ghz 1.32v (stock volts)
Motherboard:	Asrock Fatal1ty 990FX
Cooling:	Swiftech Maelstrom/MCP35X, EK Supremacy, XT45 360mm rad
Memory:	8Gb Gskill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600
Video Card:	GIGABYTE GTX 670 2gb Windforce OC edition OC'ed
Hard Disk:	Hitachi 1tb HDD; 60gb OCZ SATA III ssd
Optical Drive:	LG Bluray drive
CRT/LCD Model:	Achieva Shimian 27" 2560x1440
Case:	Cooler Master HAF 932 lots of fans
Sound Card:	Integrated
PSU:	Cooler Master 1000 Platinum
Software:	Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit; Ubuntu
Benchmarks:	p10001 3dmark11

Feb 3, 2013, 06:29 PM	#1140
eidairaman1 Eligible for custom title Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HTX Posts: 10,078 (4.68/day) Thanks: 1,359 Thanked 1,159 Times in 1,035 Posts System Specs	Go for the Hex Core __________________ Athlon XP USERS with COD 4 FIX http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...ls-202011.html http://www.howorks.com/2011/02/24/ho...-memory-limit/ “Sometimes my level of fail is unprecedented.” -TheMailMan78 “This is what the force of a thousand suns looks like.” -3870x2

Feb 8, 2013, 08:20 AM	#1141
electech13 Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 0 (0/day) Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	preferred mobo to oc fx-8350 Just curious what most here prefer to use to oc their FX chips? Mainly the 8350. Asus or Gigabyte and between the GA-990FXA-UD3/5/7 vs M5A99FX Pro R2.0/Sabbertooth/Crosshair? I currently have the Giga UD3 board and its pretty good. Can oc 4.5 to 4.85Ghz fairly easily and stable..want to go to 5.. but i'm finding a lot of fluctuations with the voltages and the clock speeds.. i've tried different LLC settings and have all the bios controls like c&q, ce1, c6, turbo, etc... all off. auto and manual voltages.. but seems to some throttling happening when under load.. and voltages change a lot.. other then that.. it's all good but I know the Digi+ power controls and the vrm's are supposedly better on Asus so that is why I'm considering the switch..

Feb 8, 2013, 09:18 AM	#1142
cdawall where the hell are my stars Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: some AF base Posts: 16,027 (6.42/day) Thanks: 457 Thanked 2,755 Times in 2,224 Posts System Specs	I enjoy my chvf... __________________

System Name:	Deployment build
Processor:	Phenom II B97@4080mhz 1.6v (24/7 4800mhz max clock)
Motherboard:	Asus Crosshair V Formula
Cooling:	Coolermaster V10 modded to 96w TEC, Scientific Rulian fans
Memory:	4x4GB Wintec ONE@1800 9-10-9 1.62v (24/7)
Video Card:	Sapphire 7950 3GB@1150/1400 1.27v
Hard Disk:	2x32GB STT SSD's raid 0, 1TB Samsung F3's, 1.5TB Seagate 7200.11
CRT/LCD Model:	STi 22"
Case:	Thermaltake Commandar MS-I Epic Edition
Sound Card:	E07K USB DAC->Fischer FA-002W High edition
PSU:	Antec TPQ-850 (Antec TPQ-1200 waiting for it at home)
Software:	windows 7 ultimate x64

Feb 9, 2013, 11:36 PM	#1146
Irony Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: COC WhiterunOrigin Posts: 986 (1.62/day) Thanks: 372 Thanked 243 Times in 197 Posts System Specs	http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g...inity_review/2 __________________ My Heatware When life gives you lemons, burn Life's house down.

Feb 10, 2013, 04:19 AM	#1148
erocker Senior Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI. Posts: 31,958 (12.78/day) Thanks: 2,793 Thanked 12,320 Times in 7,832 Posts System Specs	Quad CrossFire technically works, though a Tri-CrossFire setup will generally work/scale better with more applications.

Processor:	Intel i7 3770K @ 4.6ghz 1.256v
Motherboard:	Asus Maximus V Formula
Cooling:	Water
Memory:	2x4gb Patriot Viper 2133mhz 10-11-10-25 2T 1.55v
Video Card:	Sapphire HD 7970 1125/1575 1.14v
Hard Disk:	Crucial M4 128Gb / Corsair Force 3 120Gb / Samsung 240Gb / 2Tb Seagate
Optical Drive:	None
CRT/LCD Model:	Acheiva Shimian 27" IPS 2560x1440
Case:	Corsair 500R White
Sound Card:	Onboard
PSU:	NZXT Hale90 1Kw
Software:	Windows 8 x64

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The AMD Phenom II OC'ers Club	ShadowFold	techPowerUp! Club Forum	14386	May 11, 2013 03:58 PM
AMD Overclockers Club	AthlonX2	techPowerUp! Club Forum	2777	Dec 30, 2010 08:21 PM
Infrared Thermometer for OC'ers $33.99	thoughtdisorder	Hot Deals	4	Sep 24, 2008 03:28 AM
AMD Phenom™ Club	wiak	techPowerUp! Club Forum	94	Dec 25, 2007 09:49 AM
AMD 3ghz club...	p_o_s_pc	techPowerUp! Club Forum	167	Nov 11, 2007 03:07 PM