NVIDIA Announces GeForce GTX Titan, The Fastest GPU in the World

[HumanSmoke]

Originally Posted by blibba

That last happened so long ago that $300 was worth a lot more than it is today.

Indeed. I think you'd have to jump into the way-back machine to early 2000 (Nvidia GeForce 256 DDR @ $279) to hit top performance at the $300 price mark.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by Slizzo

Depending on how competitive ATI/AMD is, the new GTX 7xx cards should out perform this card. Remember that this GeForce "TITAN" is a GK110 core, and likely was only held back because AMD couldn't compete with it; nVidia found that their GK104 chips were competitive with AMD's 79xx series GPUs.

Nvidia also found out most people are clueless and fancy free with cash hence gk104 is top end and titan hits extreme price bracket .ill pay what something is worth and not 50% more and I got a top end card for 320 notes (5870) not that long ago. My opinion is what it is pre replys, its just mine I doubt you will share it.

[HumanSmoke]

Originally Posted by Slizzo

Depending on how competitive ATI/AMD is, the new GTX 7xx cards should out perform this card

Sooner or later this is the fate for every card, but if the GK114 is little more than a refreshed GK104 then making up the 30+% might be a little optimistic. I could see the GTX 780 getting close*, and I could also see Nvidia releasing a Titan II with 15 SMX and more aggressive clock/TDP (a la GF100 > GF110) to maintain a high-perf presence -likely given the numbers of Titans already turning up in systems.

* Heise are reporting that the notebook equivalent (GTX 780M) is around 30% faster than its predecessor (GTX 680M):

In both Haswell notebooks two new graphics chips are used, to which Nvidia has not yet made ​​a public statement: The GeForce GTX 770M (3 GB of GDDR5) is the successor to the GTX 670M, the flagship GTX 780m (4 GB of GDDR5) solves the GTX 680M from. Further technical details about the two new high-end GPUs are not yet known, but the top model will work about 30 percent faster than its predecessor. Specifically called DevilTech a 3DMark Vantage value of 29,458 points (performance, the default) for the DTX Fragbook 4900MQ with Core i7, GeForce GTX 780m and 8 GB of DDR3 memory.

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

and I got a top end card for 320 notes (5870) not that long ago

Undoubtedly, but when the card launched in September 2009, its MSRP was $US399

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

Nvidia also found out most people are clueless and fancy free with cash hence gk104 is top end and titan hits extreme price bracket .ill pay what something is worth and not 50% more and I got a top end card for 320 notes (5870) not that long ago. My opinion is what it is pre replys, its just mine I doubt you will share it.

What something is worth is dependent on how it performs in relation to the competition. The 680 was faster than AMD's top card, so it was more expensive. That's not unreasonable, it's just good business practice.

When the 5870 launched, it was slower than the 295, btw. A better card, but slower.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by blibba

What something is worth is dependent on how it performs in relation to the competition. The 680 was faster than AMD's top card, so it was more expensive. That's not unreasonable, it's just good business practice.

When the 5870 launched, it was slower than the 295, btw. A better card, but slower.

Thats your own opinion and clearly isn't the same as mine, you haven't changed my opinion on it.
Wasnt 295 dual gpu , ,both co's aren't above the fastest Card pr angle eh.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

Thats your own opinion and clearly isn't the same as mine, you haven't changed my opinion on it.
Wasnt 295 dual gpu , ,both co's aren't above the fastest Card pr angle eh.

Do you expect to be able to buy a Ferrari for the cost of constructing it? What about a vintage wine?

In any case, if Nvidia lowered the price of their GK110 products, they'd just sell out. They're struggling to meet demand from compute clients as it is. So they can chose between selling as many as they can make at a high price, or selling as many as they can make at a lower price.

It's not like anyone's going to suffer from the lack of GK110, anyway. We don't have a divine right to flagship GPUs at mainstream prices, that's just something to be greatful for when competition is good enough to allow for it.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by blibba

Do you expect to be able to buy a Ferrari for the cost of constructing it? What about a vintage wine?

In any case, if Nvidia lowered the price of their GK110 products, they'd just sell out. They're struggling to meet demand from compute clients as it is. So they can chose between selling as many as they can make at a high price, or selling as many as they can make at a lower price.

It's not like anyone's going to suffer from the lack of GK110, anyway. We don't have a divine right to flagship GPUs at mainstream prices, that's just something to be greatful for when competition is good enough to allow for it.

Dont be silly are you blinded by the green light. I didn't say they should be mainstream priced, cheap or that they shouldn't charge a fair price .ill state again pls read

IMHO THIS GEN NVIDIA ARE TO EXPENSIVE.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

IMHO THIS GEN NVIDIA ARE TO EXPENSIVE.

Then I'll state again, more simply (but not in all caps, obviously): This gen, Nvidia cards are set at their profit-maximising prices. So are AMD's cards, believe it or not.

Anyway, please tone down the aggression. We can at least pretend to be having a sensible, mature, intelligent conversation.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by blibba

Then I'll state again, more simply (but not in all caps, obviously): This gen, Nvidia cards are set at their profit-maximising prices. So are AMD's cards, believe it or not.

Anyway, please tone down the aggression. We can at least pretend to be having a sensible, mature, intelligent conversation.

No aggression, the caps were for clarity , so we agree that this gen they are overpriced so as to maximise their profit then,?? ?Twis..

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

No aggression, the caps were for clarity , so we agree that this gen they are overpriced so as to maximise their profit then,?? ?Twis..

So what determines the correct price, if not profit maximisation? Market-share maximisation? Production costs? Every generation of graphics cards ever sold has been priced for profit maximisation. And when one product has no real competitor (8800 Ultra, GTX Titan), that means the price goes through the roof. If you factor inflation, Titan is not such an unusually expensive card. These things happen from time to time.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by blibba

So what determines the correct price, if not profit maximisation? Market-share maximisation? Production costs? Every generation of graphics cards ever sold has been priced for profit maximisation. And when one product has no real competitor (8800 Ultra, GTX Titan), that means the price goes through the roof. If you factor inflation, Titan is not such an unusually expensive card. These things happen from time to time.

So to you a 30 percent performance increase means double the price is ok. Fine thats you .
For me its not good enough, I understand your point but disagree as I will not pay more than I think a thing is worth and this isn't worth what they want for it imho simples.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

So to you a 30 percent performance increase means double the price is ok. Fine thats you .

Give me one example of a luxury market where price/perf scales linearly.

• A vintage wine is not 20 times as good as a 10-year-old wine.
• A Ferrari is not 10 times as good as a brand new Golf GTI.
• A 3960X is not twice as good as a 3930K.
• 4K HD screens are not 40 times as good as 1080p screens.

High-end goods have lower volumes and higher R&D costs, so price/perf has to suffer.

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

For me its not good enough, I understand your point but disagree as I will not pay more than I think a thing is worth and this isn't worth what they want for it imho simples.

Yeah, of course you don't pay more than you value for something. That's why you don't buy gold jewellery every day, right? But that's not a reason for Nvidia to lower their price - if the extra sales they'd get would be worth lowering their price, they'd do it. But there are enough people atm for whom Titan is worth $1000 for that to be the optimal price. I imagine for Nvidia with GK110 atm, the optimal price is the highest price at which they can sell as many as TSMC can make.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by blibba

Give me one example of a luxury market where price/perf scales linearly.

• A vintage wine is not 20 times as good as a 10-year-old wine.
• A Ferrari is not 10 times as good as a brand new Golf GTI.
• A 3960X is not twice as good as a 3930K.
• 4K HD screens are not 40 times as good as 1080p screens.

High-end goods have lower volumes and higher R&D costs, so price/perf has to suffer.



Yeah, of course you don't pay more than you value for something. That's why you don't buy gold jewellery every day, right? But that's not a reason for Nvidia to lower their price - if the extra sales they'd get would be worth lowering their price, they'd do it. But there are enough people atm for whom Titan is worth $1000 for that to be the optimal price. I imagine for Nvidia with GK110 atm, the optimal price is the highest price at which they can sell as many as TSMC can make.

Your wine argument first
This card Will be three hundred notes at some point in time as tec de values to its true value re production costs , but its unimportant re what I think its worth
And thats ppint 2 in a nutshell, you're arguing from an angle of nvidias profits like you work there, I couldn't care less about nvidia maxing profit Im the consumer I care only about performance cost ratio and my perceived value of it and its a fail on both those metrics
Ps mass spectrometers scalw linear in price v spec as do football teams, hdds , ssds, mobos , psus ??

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

Your wine argument first
This card Will be three hundred notes at some point in time as tec de values to its true value re production costs , but its unimportant re what I think its worth

It'll eventually be worth $50, like 8800GTXs are now, I don't see how that's relevant.

As for production costs being the true value, that's rubbish. You think R&D is free? Even if it was, and they sold it at production costs, they'd quickly be a market for used cards selling at higher prices (as they'd run out of new ones), so what does that tell you?

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

And thats ppint 2 in a nutshell, you're arguing from an angle of nvidias profits like you work there, I couldn't care less about nvidia maxing profit Im the consumer I care only about performance cost ratio and my perceived value of it and its a fail on both those metrics

Yeah, so you shouldn't buy it! But you shouldn't criticise Nvidia either - you're clearly not the target market for this product, and they're just doing what's best for them just like you're doing what's best for you.

Do you complain about every profit-making product you can't afford?

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by blibba

It'll eventually be worth $50, like 8800GTXs are now, I don't see how that's relevant.

As for production costs being the true value, that's rubbish. You think R&D is free? Even if it was, and they sold it at production costs, they'd quickly be a market for used cards selling at higher prices (as they'd run out of new ones), so what does that tell you?



Yeah, so you shouldn't buy it! But you shouldn't criticise Nvidia either - you're clearly not the target market for this product, and they're just doing what's best for them just like you're doing what's best for you.

Do you complain about every profit-making product you can't afford?

I do if it guides the market price upwards for that which I want. Top end gpuage
Im not negative on nvidia just there priceing and they rape the r n d cost from the corporate sector in the cost of pro cards and backup. Im starting to think the sun shines out of nv's ass onto you.
Give it up im gona. I cant change your mind it seems meh. You won't change mine.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

I do if it guides the market price upwards for that which I want. Top end gpuage

Nothing has gone up in price since Titan launched. Next gen won't be more expensive as a result of Titan. If it's more expensive than it would normally be, that's due to a lack of competition and/or poor yields (as is the price of Titan itself).

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

Im not negative on nvidia just there priceing and they rape the r n d cost from the corporate sector in the cost of pro cards and backup.

AMD, Intel and the rest of it would (and do) do exactly the same thing in the same circumstances. Look at the price of AMD's top FX chips back in the day (no, I don't mean Bulldozer or Piledriver), or the Intel 3960X now.

Originally Posted by theoneandonlymrk

Im starting to think the sun shines out of nv's ass onto you.
Give it up im gona. I cant change your mind it seems meh. You won't change mine.

I'm just trying to explain some simple economics to you. I don't care which company is the example. I don't particularly like the system even, but this is how it is.

[Fourstaff]

Summary so we don't need to take Economics 101 in this thread:

theoneandonlymrk: Nvidia's stuff is overpriced
blibba: That's because of economics

Both are correct, no matter how many posts we make. Now can we please go back to topic?

[Xzibit]

If it was economics.

The 580, 480, 280 would have all cost 1k.

Originally Posted by blibba

No, you've missed the point entirely.

I guess I did. I just dont see how the economics have changed then you implied Titan is a "luxury" item. Which I agree that Nvidia made a new segment for itself with Titan but it hasnt altered how economics have worked in the past for those companies.
Nvidia tried to be cleaver and make a new catagory for Titan by not lumping it in to the 600 series but its still under the gaming series. Its just categorizing itself differently and thus being able to charge more with less of a back-lash if it retained the 600 numeroligy.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by Xzibit

If it was economics.

The 580, 480, 280 would have all cost 1k.

No, you've missed the point entirely. But given Fourstaff's post above, let's leave it at that. I'm going to unsubscribe, and if you still don't understand after re-reading my posts above, you can PM me.

[magibeg]

Now that the fighting is done, does anyone know a semi-reputable rumor for when the next gen nvidia cards are supposed to be arriving? ATI is probably around Q4 2013 so it would make sense if nvidia had a similar time frame.

[HumanSmoke]

Originally Posted by magibeg

Now that the fighting is done, does anyone know a semi-reputable rumor for when the next gen nvidia cards are supposed to be arriving? ATI is probably around Q4 2013 so it would make sense if nvidia had a similar time frame.

I don't think there is anything concrete. Heise are reporting that Nvidia have new mobile parts (GTX 770M and GTX 780M) on the horizon, but given the 30% improvement over the old parts -based on the 1344 shader GK104, they could well be a revised GK104 benefiting from design/process maturity (The GTX 780M would be equal/a little better than a fully enabled 1536 shader GTX 680MX but with presumably lower power usage)
See post #103 for the relevant link (or translated here)

Originally Posted by Xzibit

I guess I did. I just dont see how the economics have changed then you implied Titan is a "luxury" item. Which I agree that Nvidia made a new segment for itself with Titan but it hasnt altered how economics have worked in the past for those companies.

The Titan owners thread is up to 190 pages at OCN. Uptake of the card seems pretty good for a high dollar item. Your argument is largely invalid at this point.

[magibeg]

Originally Posted by HumanSmoke

I don't think there is anything concrete. Heise are reporting that Nvidia have new mobile parts (GTX 770M and GTX 780M) on the horizon, but given the 30% improvement over the old parts -based on the 1344 shader GK104, they could well be a revised GK104 benefiting from design/process maturity (The GTX 780M would be equal/a little better than a fully enabled 1536 shader GTX 680MX but with presumably lower power usage)
See post #103 for the relevant link (or translated here)

The reason I was asking was mostly because of the current placement of titan. It seems to have about a 25% boost over this gens 680. Given the natural order of progression that seems to take place I would think that the next gen (780) would fall almost exactly where the current titan is. I would think that nvidia wouldn't want to cannibalize those sales.

[Xzibit]

Originally Posted by HumanSmoke

The Titan owners thread is up to 190 pages at OCN. Uptake of the card seems pretty good for a high dollar item. Your argument is largely invalid at this point.

When did I even imply such things. You need to stop smoking that stuff


BTW I like your analogy
If 190 pages of anything equals success we are in deep trouble.
This is the internet after all

[HumanSmoke]

Originally Posted by magibeg

The reason I was asking was mostly because of the current placement of titan. It seems to have about a 25% boost over this gens 680. Given the natural order of progression that seems to take place I would think that the next gen (780) would fall almost exactly where the current titan is. I would think that nvidia wouldn't want to cannibalize those sales.

Not quite.
Taking into account a reasonable level of image quality and resolution dependent, the GTX 680 lags by about 35-70% behind the Titan (mouse over the graph bars for baseline comparison)- if you concentrate on compute heavy gaming or apps, the difference becomes somewhat greater. Unlikely that a GTX 780 would equal a Titan unless it were fundamentally redesigned.

The second argument is somewhat more pragmatic. Titan is here, GK114 is not. If you're waiting for the next best thing then you would be forever waiting. With the staggered release cycles that AMD and Nvidia seem to a reached, you're never going to be more than a few months removed from a new series.