AMD’s debt piling up

[ktr]

ati is gonna be easy taking now, amd need money...and ends up selling ati to intel

[ryboto]

Originally Posted by Benpi

Their debt is rising because they haven't released anything worth buying. Intel releases new procs all-the-flippin' time. AMD is starting to lose people who were holding out for R600 because they're taking their sweet time.

you do realize the majority of their sales and profits come from midrange and budget products, right?

[WarEagleAU]

yes, but they havent even released those either.

[Sasqui]

Originally Posted by ryboto

you do realize the majority of their sales and profits come from midrange and budget products, right?

Don't forget the mobile video chips, and Xillian for HDTV - however, I have no idea what share or TAM is involved there.

[overcast]

Originally Posted by WarEagleAU

yes, but they havent even released those either.

I assure you cutting edge technology, is a very small percentage of their overall sales. Mid range or not. They make money off of past products, OEM's etc.

[theonetruewill]

The reason AMD are having financial difficulties is because creating and manufacturing processors is an extremely expensive business. Unlike Intel who have huge assets behind them, AMD have had to go to the next level with their processors with far less money for the research. No wonder they're behind. But more importantly it shows just how abominable Intel was with the Pentium 4.

Now GPU's, although not needing quite so much money are still ludicrously expensive to manufacture, hence the high prices for gfx cards. You get what you pay for. Now NVidia also have larger assets behind them than ATi, thus they released the 8800's before ATi could get a word in edgeways.

High profits + Large assets -->More money --> more research --> GPU/CPU technology arrives faster.

AMD probably bought ATi because they want to completely amalgamate some areas of the two companies. Hence the AMD/ATi integrated chipsets on motherboards of the future. Also they probably needed an edge over Inetl. With two technologies instead of one things can only be better for them (in theory - financially in the short term its tough if you've not got a lot of money backing you).

Conclusion: AMD and ATi are not screwing us around, they're doing the best they can against far richer opposition. I for one didn't get an ATi card because for the budget I was on, needed a 7600GT or an X1650 pro (£65). Otherwise I would have support the much smaller company, and partly why I decided to get an AMD cpu.

For example
-ATI's Net income in 2005: $16.9 million (approx)
-NVidia's Net income in 2005: $450 million (just a bit below that I believe)

-AMD's Net income 2005: $575 million (approx)
-Intel's Net income 2005: around $5 billion

[AshenSugar]

theone got it, intel and nvidia already have HUGE $ behind them, but one thing i have NEVER seen amd do is rush an unready chip to market just to compete with intel, but intel many times have rushed chips to market to try and compete with amd, hell look back at intel they put out at least 4 chips i can think of that where buggy as hell or to bloody hot because they rushed them out to compete with amd products of the time. (2 needing microcode updates to make them work properly, thus killing perf

[rhythmeister]

Originally Posted by theonetruewill

I for one didn't get an ATi card because for the budget I was on, needed a 7600GT or an X1650 pro (£65).

Dude, why were you even considering the Pro card when the XT variant eats it?!

[jydie]

I really hope that AMD/ATI have decent success with the newer products they will be releasing soon. I have bought AMD for all my CPU needs... and ATI for about 75% of my video card needs. For me, AMD and ATI seem to offer better "bang for the buck" in the low to mid range price market.

I always cheer for the underdog, so I am anxiously awaiting their next move. AMD/ATI needs to keep the pressure on Nvidia and Intel... as others have said, competition is great for us (the consumers.)

[ktr]

Originally Posted by rhythmeister

Dude, why were you even considering the Pro card when the XT variant eats it?!

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards....=385&card2=472

GT still beats the XT, but not much...

[theonetruewill]

Originally Posted by rhythmeister

Dude, why were you even considering the Pro card when the XT variant eats it?!

Because at the time no X1650XT was £65. The pro's were around £50-65, but to be honest the X850XT was more thr competitor. I brought up the pro because it was a more modern revision and was more relevant to the discussion

[trt740]

I am a true AMD fanboy but I think AMD is done for altleast the version we know and love. We will still see a Barcelona but AMD may go bankrupt and have to reconfigure. I cannot believe ATI if this is true could drop the ball so badly WOW!!! and it couldn't come at a worse time. Hello gigantic Intel price increase on the next chip go round.

[yogurt_21]

lol I think it's funny that people think intel can buy nvidia, amd bout ati for ~5 billion, it would take over double that to buy nvidia, and even with the conroe, intel doesn't have that kind of cash laying around, most of their cash is tied up in development atm, not to mention the fact that nvidia has no plans on selling, why would they? they seem to be doing more than okay on their own.

[anticlutch]

I feel really bad for AMD... I hate it when the underdogs get beat out by the big guys :|
Wasn't there a discussion about this though? About how AMD was behind a few years back but then leaped ahead of Intel with the K8's? I think it's pretty much the same idea here... AMD will lose lots of money until the K10's come out, at which point they will bouce back to owning the market share they had before the Conroes came out. I think I'll stock up on some Conroes just in case though <_<

[DaMulta]

Originally Posted by anticlutch

I feel really bad for AMD... I hate it when the underdogs get beat out by the big guys :|
Wasn't there a discussion about this though? About how AMD was behind a few years back but then leaped ahead of Intel with the K8's? I think it's pretty much the same idea here... AMD will lose lots of money until the K10's come out, at which point they will bouce back to owning the market share they had before the Conroes came out. I think I'll stock up on some Conroes just in case though <_<

Truly only gamers bought AMD then. I can't think of one business I knew of not running Intel during there slower years.

I've always heard it this way. Its like medicine you have the name brand "Intel" and the off brand "AMD".

[Sasqui]

This is an interesting time... like in 99 when NVidia announced the "GPU". 3DFx was still alive then, but it only took a few years (ok, two) and NVida owned all 3DFx IP. With a merger of a hurting chipset manf and a high end graphics division - where will it go?

[mas0n]

IMHO, AMD's acquisition of ATI was a very smart move for the long term, and they were honest about it. They told everyone that it was going to hurt and they were going to bleed for awhile. This is the bleeding. The AMD/ATI mega-release in May is not going to be jaw dropping. At best it will bring them up to speed, but in mid 2009 you will see why these two companies merged.

AMD kicked Intel's butt for a few years and awoke the sleeping giant. AMD took advantage of their success and dug in deep with new fabs and partnerships, because they know the next few years are going to be brutal. If AMD bankrupts it will be because Wall Street is so danged short-sighted.

[Ashen]

i dont know anybody who has AMD/ATI stock thats worried, they all understand the situation, hell most of them are slowly buying up more stock in amd because they see it as exectly what amd said was gonna happen, there would be a bad time after the ati+amd thing but in the end it is going to do positive things for both companys, amd needed a gfx and chipset devision, ati needed better leadership specly in the driver side, guess what, AMD wants to support linux and opengl, so we will see updates there, also amd is VERY VERY into the "our products work on everybodys chipsets" so CF will start working on SLI boards, Via/sis/uli boards, because guess what, its good buisness, even if theres is a perf hit.

remmber, amd and ati are not stupid companys, and both where excited about the prospect, because they each have things the other needs, and hell, eventuly amd will beable to use their own fabs to make the video chips, bringing everything under their own umbrella(still having IBM and others make some chips im sure due to demand.)

amd's cpu devision lost $ for years, they made money in other markets, i would guess thats still true now, their cpu/video/chipset devision is hurting, but hey, i watched a guy i worked for spend over 135k to upgrade 4 machiens on the floor, it put the company in debt for 9 months, BUT production and quility went WAY UP, also there was less waist because the upgraded machiens had more automation and checked stuff b4 they started cutting/molding, the old ones would break tools by jamping them into the part they where trying to cut because it was 1/8 in to long!!!!!!

[GJSNeptune]

Yeah, I don't see buying ATI as big mistake. Nowadays, business professionals are crazy-smart. Companies only hire the best. They knew what they were getting into. You don't dish out almost $6 billion or whatever without proper research and conferencing. AMD will find a way.

[zOaib]

AMD just needs to get on the BALL , cause this is gonna suck if that company is sold or bought or finito .................. i am no fanboy of anyone i buy whats best with price n performance. and if Amd is gonna go outta biznass we all are screwed , cause then nvidia (greddy green) and intel will own and make us pay what they want....................

bah ........... i will jsut buy an r600 to support ati .

[ex_reven]

Originally Posted by Ketxxx

Now didnt I say AMD buying ATi was a bad thing? *sigh* nobody ever listens

[overcast]

I can't believe there is even a discussion on this so soon after a major acquisition. Every investment has a lull period at the beginning waiting for returns. To the two people who actually responded with some intelligence, bravo.

[DaMulta]

lol

[Casheti]

Hopefully AMD die.

[anticlutch]

I hope they don't. If AMD goes down, Intel won't have a competitor, which means that they can bump up the prices as they see fit. So if AMD goes down, the end consumer loses out.