Ambient Temps are killing me

[thomasshawn]

Great forum. I discovered this site a while back when I first started having significant cooling issues with my PC. I tried a bunch of stuff and I'm left with the following problem. My ambient temps around my current box are kiiling me. My resting CPU core temps are ~46 hard drives often creep above 50. This is at idle. If I run orthos or play BF2 CPU can hit 62 easy.

Current PC AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ (Toledo) running 2GB of Corsair PC3200 DDR on an AN8 Ultra MotherBoard running at 2210 MHz at x11 mult and FSB 200.9 (basically stock). with Stock cooler on the CPU

I have it all packaged in an Antec Ultra Quiet ATX Mini Tower. This is tucked into a desk that was custom built to hide the CPU, wires etc. Nothing really fancy, just a cabinet (about half again as tall and wide as the computer case) with all wires running out the back through tunnels under the desk. This cabinet has a door and a slide out drawer to make things easier when I need to service the box. Now I have augmented my setup when I first started having heat issues by cutting a hole in the computer cabinet near the top, mainly out of site in the area where my chair fits under the desk. This is a large hole that was cut to allow a standard air conditioner register to be attached.Something Like this

I then put two 120mm fans on the inside of the vent. One blowing in the other out. This help but did not CURE by cooling problems. Temps dropped to mid to high 30s on the SYS temp but still soared with any real activity like TV tuner, DVD burning/ripping or gaming. Now I have very little instability with these temps but I know it's not good. I do sometimes get random BSOD that I attribute to very hot temps in the cabinet but that is often after hours of inactivity. Basically the box is hut up in the cabinet for hours.

Now, if I open the cabinet door, pull the drawer out and basically let the CPU sit at ROOM temp, sys temp drops to low 30s even 28 or 29. and the Core temp registers very close to 33 or 34 within about 10 minutes. It is a precipitous drop. I can run orthos or play games or even rip/burn DVDs and the temp rarely gets above mid 40s. within 10-15 minutes of closing the door my sys temps and CPU tewps are mid 40s and with much of any activity I'm mid 50s on CORE temp. Again, no instability.I also have 2 90mm fans sitting inside the case, one blowing across the graphics card and one blowing across the HDs. I long ago took the one side off the case to allow better airflow.

My wife was concerned with noise, the cabinet sounds like a leaf blower with those two 120s blowing. So I added a small 7 inch house fan. It sits on top of the case and blows out the vent. That does well to drop it 2-3 degress but nothing more. If I simply leave the door open I get temps at idle of 35-37 core and similar SYS and around 40 on the 3 HDs.

Problem is as the cabinet gets hot. All these fans do is recirculate HOT air. I am at a point of having to change something. In my mind I can do 2 things and this is where I need help.

First, I can enlarge the hole where the A/C vent is and basically cut the side off the cabinet.

[thomasshawn]

If you are sitting at the desk this would be the vertical part of the desk that touches your left leg as you pull your chair under the desk. Really only visible if you look under the desk. I hate to do something so drastic but I need better airflow. I could also cut the back out of the cabinet as it is against the wall and there is about 2 inches of space for air to escape. I still wonder if this would be enough.

Second, I could move the case about 10 feet away into a large 8x8 closet. I'd be adding close to 20 feet of cable to make it happen though because I'd run the cable inside the wall through the attic and back down into the closet. Is this feasible? I'd have to have some sort of extender I assume for USB printer and Hubs,music, etc. I have seen these KVM boxes that allow you do to this but most of them are 300+ and some and then there's wired vs wireless. Is this a realistic option? Do I lose signal quality, response time etc. Could I just run long cables and avoid expensive extenders?

My system seems to work fine at room temp, and really even in the cabinet it does pretty well, but I'd like to avoid the high temps and I want something that will fix this once and for all. Sorry for the marathon first post but I wanted to have all the info so people didn't suggest things I'd already tried.

Shawn

[kwchang007]

I think if you really want to keep your desktop hidden, my best advice would be to create a dedicated exhust. So with your vents I'd have them blowing air in. Then have another vent on the back blowing air out. Better would be is if the exhust was on the top and the intake was close to the bottom of the room. BTW pics would help to find out what's going on

[marsey99]

change the fans so both pull out and add another to suck in on the other side/front.

you really should upgrade the heatsinks too as stock is not the best.

tbh totaly honest tho you should buy a case that you dont need to hide, antec p182 is a nice looking case that isnt too noisey.

[WhiteLotus]

I think i sort of know how you feel. my temps are pretty high, havent got them to hand but will note them down when i do. i have two side fans blowing in and a rear fan blowing out. my tower is a midi and sits on my desk. if you go to dabs.com and type in 3LH6WS as the quink linx code. i replaced the two stock fans with three of Asaka lo-noise 80mm fans, and the last fixed to the back.

is this a good setup or am i being an idiot somewhere?

ps can someone tell me a good temp program just so i know that the figures will be accurate?

[Kursah]

Click on link in signiature, and go to the cooling section, it may help you to better understand how important case airflow and proper cooling is for PC's. Ventilation is VERY important for any modern PC as they create a lot of heat and as you know more-so under load. Take a quick read through that, let me know what you think.

Also, getting a different case that is more thermally advantaged (better airflow design) with more fans will help greatly! Hope this helps!

[zCexVe]

The best way is side+front intake.Rear+top blow out.And with some negative pressure.If the pressure is nil it will be great too.But not positive.Work on that.Too much fans mean hot air circling in the case.Use a high RPM 120mm in the side.That wil reduce heat about 8 C.

[thomasshawn]

I will upload a few pics. No one even considered the move to the closet.

I thought that was interesting. I'll consider cutting the back out of the cabinet for more front-back movement.

Post some pics in the next 1/2 hour and see what everyone thinks

Shawn

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by thomasshawn

I will upload a few pics. No one even considered the move to the closet.

I thought that was interesting. I'll consider cutting the back out of the cabinet for more front-back movement.

Post some pics in the next 1/2 hour and see what everyone thinks

Shawn

It's because all the kind of cables aren't designed for those kind of long distances. So it wouldn't be feasible for a good price. You'd need usb boosters, a usb hub, monitor cable booster, maybe audio idk about that, and then you'd need to find some remote way to hit the power button? Lots of money for the boosters, getting better ventilation is much cheaper

[thomasshawn]

Here's thew pics
First please ignore awful wiring. I KNOW. I've been playing with many options for airflow lately and it's a mess.

Pic 1- desk, no big deal.

Pic 2/3- this is the vent I cut in the side of the cabinet.




OH THE HORROR!! The mess that is the inside of this cabinet. I've tried lots of stuff. This is my current setup. Core is 39 while writing this message. Fan facing you is blowing out towards a cracked cabinet door.




next is the inside of the case, I leave the side off to improve flow. Notice the two clear fans blowing hot air around in the case



OK, I pulled the case out and this is looking into the back of the cabinet, the next one is a little better shot of the same, might cut the whole back side out of this cabinet, there is about 2 inches of space behind the desk.

[kwchang007]

Cut one more vent, down at the bottom of the desk, put a fan or two blowing in. Then at the top, switch the fan (or 2 you have) to exhaust. Then you're going to want to tidy up your case wiring. Also, get rid of those fans in the compartment. What would be best is if you could have a vent that gives air to the case intake, then a vent that takes air away from the exhausts. I'm not talking about house vents, but run actually venting, like HVAC stuff, the pipes that carry air to your ducts.

[thomasshawn]

One of the options I was considering was to

1. Cut another bottom vent, But since the case is closed on that side of the cabinet I assumed it might make very little benefit. Or cut a rear vent so at least air could flow side to back and some airflow front-back as I keep the door propped open about 2 inches as well.

2. The hoses, I have been considering, I have several feet of 3 inch diameter automobile A/C ducting but the question is where to run it? I can run it as exhaust but from where? There is no one place. It all just kinda pools inside the case. I considered actually rigging a 90mm fan to one of these hoses to blow hot air down the hose and out either the back or side of the case. and another one, very similar from the outside right onto the cpu fan.

Does this make sense or am I just wasting time with that one?

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by thomasshawn

One of the options I was considering was to

1. Cut another bottom vent, But since the case is closed on that side of the cabinet I assumed it might make very little benefit. Or cut a rear vent so at least air could flow side to back and some airflow front-back as I keep the door propped open about 2 inches as well.

2. The hoses, I have been considering, I have several feet of 3 inch diameter automobile A/C ducting but the question is where to run it? I can run it as exhaust but from where? There is no one place. It all just kinda pools inside the case. I considered actually rigging a 90mm fan to one of these hoses to blow hot air down the hose and out either the back or side of the case. and another one, very similar from the outside right onto the cpu fan.

Does this make sense or am I just wasting time with that one?

1. It would give you better airflow if you have one vent for intake, and one fan for exhust.

2. As for your hoses, you would have to collect exhust from 2 or 3 areas. Those being the PSU exhust, the case exhust (the fan), and if you have one, the gfx card exhust. Also, if there is any way to rig something up to get fresh air into the case that'd be good (fresh as in not hot, not like outside air, lol)

EDIT: Don't put fans all over the place in your case, it'd be better to try and keep the intake at the front and low, then exhust at the rear and high. Adding in too many fans in the airflow could be causing more damage than it helps.

[Namslas90]

You realy need to just take the back off that cabinet, then if you remove about 3 inches from the bottom shelf behind the door(under the case) you will get much better airflow, or a hole in the door.(you might be able to just push the shelf out the back).

[thomasshawn]

OK, I cut the back out of the cabinet. cut a 3x4 inch hole in the front floor and attached a 70mm fan blowing INTO the cabinet. I also removed OEM cpu cooler and added a zalman CNPS 7000 all copper. I used arctic silver 5. Temps are running 36-37 while writing this post ( and recoding something on my TV tuner). Running orthos I got up to 56 then dropped quickly to 46-48. That's with the door shut. Now that is an improvement, but is this max, or will it get better over time. Arctic silvers site says 200 hours I'll see another 4-8 degree drop. Is this reliable? If so, that would put me at or below 30 and I'd be very happy with that.

Thanks

Shawn

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by thomasshawn

OK, I cut the back out of the cabinet. cut a 3x4 inch hole in the front floor and attached a 70mm fan blowing INTO the cabinet. I also removed OEM cpu cooler and added a zalman CNPS 7000 all copper. I used arctic silver 5. Temps are running 36-37 while writing this post ( and recoding something on my TV tuner). Running orthos I got up to 56 then dropped quickly to 46-48. That's with the door shut. Now that is an improvement, but is this max, or will it get better over time. Arctic silvers site says 200 hours I'll see another 4-8 degree drop. Is this reliable? If so, that would put me at or below 30 and I'd be very happy with that.

Thanks

Shawn

It should get better, AS5 is supposed to have a set-in time. But idk cause I haven't used it . If it gets up to 56 max, that's fine.

[KennyT772]

You are suffocating your comp man...take it out of the cabinet and make it look good nuff to where you no longer want to hide it away

[thomasshawn]

But the way this room is set up short of putting it on the desk or where my feet would go, there's no room for it. I wonder, I've seen a lot of these "computer desks" lately that have the same design: One big box with a few holes in the back for wires. I bet more people will have this same problem. Might not be an issue if mine wasn't always on like it is.

Interesting thing though, since I applied the new heatsink and the arctic silver one core is running 2-3 hotter than the other. (using core Temp 0.95) It's consistently showing 34 and 36 or 34 and 37 at idle. Interestingly SpeenFan shows a core of 37-38 but a "CPU" temp of 30-31. It doesn't differentiate between cores so I don't know which one it's measuring. Should this bother me. I can't imagine that it would be different on the same cpu

[thomasshawn]

Anyone have any thoughts on the relevance between the two core temps?

never less than 2 degress between them hover around 34 (core 0) and 36 or 37 (core 1) this is per CORE TEMP


Shawn

[csallis]

Originally Posted by thomasshawn

Anyone have any thoughts on the relevance between the two core temps?

never less than 2 degress between them hover around 34 (core 0) and 36 or 37 (core 1) this is per CORE TEMP


Shawn

Don't worry about this to much one of my cores is always a degree or two hotter than the other to and looking around the forum when people are posting temps it seems quite common.

[thomasshawn]

I appreciate this.It's good to know.

Talked to Zalman they cautioned me that this cooler the CNPS7000-CU is NOT APPROVED for dual core. They recommended returning it and replacing it with the 9500 version that is approved or Athlon X2. I looked at their site and sure enough the 7000 lists 939 Athlon 64 processors but leaves out the X2 specifically. The 9500 does include X2 processors. They said that the design is such that cooling will be insufficient to accomidate the dual cores.

Just so people know. I'm not sure how much this really applies because I know of several people that have this same cooler on their x2 processors but it is not recommend for dual cores. In fact, I've seen several reviews online gtesting just this setup. See their website for confirmation. I'd attach link but IT here at work in their ultimate wisdom has blocked the zalman site from viewing.

[DaMulta]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118016

Probelm sloved with a few waterblocks. NO NOISE WIFE HAPPY

[csallis]

Originally Posted by thomasshawn

I appreciate this.It's good to know.

Talked to Zalman they cautioned me that this cooler the CNPS7000-CU is NOT APPROVED for dual core. They recommended returning it and replacing it with the 9500 version that is approved or Athlon X2. I looked at their site and sure enough the 7000 lists 939 Athlon 64 processors but leaves out the X2 specifically. The 9500 does include X2 processors. They said that the design is such that cooling will be insufficient to accomidate the dual cores.

Just so people know. I'm not sure how much this really applies because I know of several people that have this same cooler on their x2 processors but it is not recommend for dual cores. In fact, I've seen several reviews online gtesting just this setup. See their website for confirmation. I'd attach link but IT here at work in their ultimate wisdom has blocked the zalman site from viewing.

The 9500 is a great cooler, thats the one I am cooling my overclocked core duo with but if you have the extra cash knocking around (its not much more) then the 9700 is the king of the Zalman coolers.

[cdawall]

cut a hole in the bottom of the desk and run some quiet 120mm low speed fans open up the bottom of you case and close the side set the case over were th hole in floor of the desk is and finally create some blow holes in the top of your case and add 1-2 120mm low speed quiet fanse

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835209013

these should do if you ever dont like how load they are you can change the fan speed

this HSF can more than handle your system and should lower your temps not to mention again this is more or less silent

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185125


also what graphics are you using those can have some insanely noisy fans on them

[Ketxxx]

Sorry man even I cant read all that.. but heres some general tips.

1. It doesnt particularly matter how many fan holes a case has, as longs it can accomadate a front and rear 120mm intake and exhaust fan system (aka the "push-pull" method)

2. Cable management is everything, think very carefully where the cables need to go, and be sure to place \ ziptie them in the best possible place to make sure airflow is affected as little as possible.

3. Aftermarket cooling. This is your best friend, stock cooling has always historically been terrible. There are many good coolers you can buy, some of which are very cheap, but may need a bit of mod work done to them to maximise their performance. One example is the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro, awesome cooler, but its clip retention mechanism often puts too much pressure on the mounting bracket, causing it to break. A simple tough durable file is enough to take some of the plastic away on the clip, reducing pressure and avoiding ant mounting bracket breaking.

4. Use the right thermal paste. Standard sillicon paste is OK, and 9\10 will surpass the crap thats used by manufacturers. For real performance though using Arctic Silver Ceramique is the best solution, non conductive, very cheap, and makes an excellent cooling interface between HS and chip. (only 1-2c worse than AS5)

5. Cool your mainboard well. Most manufacturers are into this "silent heatpipe technology" malarky. Its nice on the surface, but in practicality isnt so good, often causing the mainboard chipset to heat up rather a lot. The solution? If a proper heatsink is covering the mainboard chipset, simply add a fan on top of it, this will cool the chipset down a lot, taking it away from danger levels.

6. Cool all that needs cooling. Theres more to cool than just what I have mentioned, your GPU can also get very hot if not cooled properly, as can some power regulation cuircuites and ICs. Be thorough in finding out whats hot and whats not, and you should be fine