Germany Wants to Sneak Spyware on Terror Suspects' Computers

[zekrahminator]

In the fight against terror, Germany is trying to gain the upper hand by spying on potential terrorists. They can already tap phone lines and use most forms of electronic surveillance. However, the German government wants to go even further by watching all internet activity on a suspect's computer. While a direct installation was recently prohibited by German courts, a "sneak attack" has not yet been forbidden. German officials are proposing a bill that would allow police agencies to send E-mails loaded with trojan horses, in an attempt to bug a suspect's computer. If a terror suspect was foolish enough to download attachments from the "Finance Ministry" or "Youth Services Office", a government official could read the contents of his hard drive or spy on his internet activities at any time. However, this idea is under much scrutiny. The likeliness that such a practice would become legal is very unlikely. And even if it did become legal, most terror suspects are smart enough not to install simple virus protection, and are probably running Mac OS X/Linux anyways to avoid such a problem.

Source: The Inquirer

[gR3iF]

The dialer is desinged for Linux/mac aswell.

We are quite in discussing this thing here in germany. But as far as it looks having adminsitrator tools for searching security holes in your lan will be illegall in future.

[o_k_13]

the terrorists are probably running windows 98, as they are retards.
and those running unusual linux distros will have to compile the spyware to run on their machine, then richard stallman will demand that the german government opens the program's source.
and probably apple will include the program "out of the box" in the german online store.

[Glump Bliermp]

This would never fly in America. Everyone has the right to privacy - especially if you're planning an attack which would cause mass innocent civilian casualties. God Bless America!!!

[zekrahminator]

My opinion on spying:

If you've been convicted of doing something bad before, or there's reason to believe you're going to do something bad (again), spying is acceptable. In no other circumstances should it be allowed. Law-abiding citizens should be allowed to go about their daily lives without five government agencies knowing when they're going grocery shopping.

[Darknova]

Originally Posted by zekrahminator

My opinion on spying:

If you've been convicted of doing something bad before, or there's reason to believe you're going to do something bad (again), spying is acceptable. In no other circumstances should it be allowed. Law-abiding citizens should be allowed to go about their daily lives without five government agencies knowing when they're going grocery shopping.

My thoughts exactly zek.

You break the law (to the extent of endangering other people) you shouldn't have the same privacy rights as everyone else.

[HAL7000]

Originally Posted by zekrahminator

My opinion on spying:

If you've been convicted of doing something bad before, or there's reason to believe you're going to do something bad (again), spying is acceptable. In no other circumstances should it be allowed. Law-abiding citizens should be allowed to go about their daily lives without five government agencies knowing when they're going grocery shopping.

I would agree with this statement on the whole and would also include known terrorist without convictions. I think we allow the terrorist to many freedoms and rights. I had friends killed in the twin towers, over Iraq, and other places I rather not speak about. Attacking/ going after the terrorist in every way possible should be granted with the proper supervision and guidelines. It is a Military campaign.
Keep it out of public/political/ media scrutiny.

IMHO...A war is won by military might and strategies, not by polls and media coverage. Causalities are a part of war....we need not back pedal but accept the fruits of war and press harder and not allow the hands of the military to be tied up. So whatever works in winning this war....grant it.

[WarEagleAU]

Seems like a nice plan, just sucks they have to download the virus <G>

[kakazza]

Oh please, Wolfgang Schaeuble is a known madman in a wheelchair. You can buy T-Shirts with "Even if you're in a wheelchair, you can still kick the human right" on them.

He's more or less for total observation of ANYONE.

[HAL7000]

Quote from Wikpedia:

Schäuble is criticized by some for his strong conservative views and his pursuit of law and order politics; his remarks about the 2006 FIFA World Cup's security (demanding to put tanks in front of the stadiums if necessary) and his decision to opt out of the Schengen agreement during the World Cup were frowned upon by many. He is - together with Otto Schily and Günther Beckstein - seen by some civil rights activists as one of the most rigid, authoritarian politicians in Germany. His declared attendance of LinuxTag 2007 drew a boycott from parts of the OSS community. [2] The latest decisions of his ministry have led to a campaign dubbed Stasi 2.0 by its initiators, claiming intentional resemblance to the Ministerium für Staatssicherheit of the German Democratic Republic.

So why criticize him for wanting to kick some serious terrorist/ bad guy’s ass..... I am tired of people calling others lame but have no other resolve for terrorism. Terrorist need to be killed before they kill....plain and simple....trying to find them is essential. So doing whatever can be done is necessary.
Lets see what you think when it is your family that is harmed or killed. I hope he does more in Germany that will positively affect the terrorist there and abroad. Leaving them alone and thinking they will go away doesn’t work. This guy has balls....

I apologize for this rant…but yes we need to do what we can to win this war.
Dam it pisses me off….dam here comes the wife…with a fry pan to settle me down

[Darknova]

I don't critise him Hal, I agree it must be done, but you can't throw away EVERYONE's right to privacy. If there is a credible link between the person and terrorism then yes, but to allow the government to look through everyone's private things is wrong.

If you've been convicted of a crime, you don't deserve the same rights as everyone else.

The problem is if we let it go to far, exactly how much of our lives are the politicians etc. going to want to know/control?

[HAL7000]

Originally Posted by Darknova

I don't critise him Hal, I agree it must be done, but you can't throw away EVERYONE's right to privacy. If there is a credible link between the person and terrorism then yes, but to allow the government to look through everyone's private things is wrong.

If you've been convicted of a crime, you don't deserve the same rights as everyone else.

The problem is if we let it go to far, exactly how much of our lives are the politicians etc. going to want to know/control?

Understand your concerns, but you and I have nothing to worry about, protecting the rights of an individual is honorable, but we need to draw the line between them and us,,,,,if you and I walked down the streets alone in Baghdad, believe me....rights mean shit there....this is their mentality....you and I are dead....most likely within one hour. You can cry human rights but when they send our bodies down the river and our heads to the local consulate, let’s hope we are still smiling.
We have had covert missions that are not privy to the media or the public which have produced some great results over the years.
This is where we need to be. A virus over the internet is a small part. That won’t affect you or I. Have you ever looked into the eyes of death? I have, my best friend was killed walking down a f**king safe zone in ********. My son now is in ******** and does what his old man has done before him….protect your right to protest….In the mog…we lost men because of f**king politics and the Sec of Def resigned two months after the incident. He should have been allowed to walk the street in the mog alone.
Wolfgang Schaeuble knows what I am talking about and wants to start to take back the ground lost over all the years. You deserve this; our kids deserve this and our kid’s kids.

Remember a virus is only detected if recognized as one….this is another way to have a covert mission with no KIA’s.

[XooM]

haha, apple is funded by terrorists.

[kwchang007]

Oh boy....watch the anti-virus on the machine detect the virus and remove it. Anyways....I know if I was doing something I wanted to keep truly secret, it'd be on a computer that never ever touched the web. Then it would be on a lan with other computers that aren't on the web. I would use another computer to go on the web on a separate network save then copy anything I need, scan the copies with like 3 different av programs, then load it up. Don't be surprised people.....I bet our gov'ts are doing that kind of thing right now, terrorists catch on quick.

this is like when good old george W. tapped people phone lines. he caught one guy who turned out to be high at the time anyway.

[niko084]

Originally Posted by o_k_13

the terrorists are probably running windows 98, as they are retards.
and those running unusual linux distros will have to compile the spyware to run on their machine, then richard stallman will demand that the german government opens the program's source.
and probably apple will include the program "out of the box" in the german online store.

Just curious here.... Terrorists ... Retards? Windows 98.....

I'm sorry but to be honest here people at the top of Terrorist organizations are FAR from retards, in fact they are very intelligent... Just because the majority of people believe what they do is wrong, it takes a lot a intelligence to be able to pull the things off they do.


****
To go on this here.... Sounds like an interesting idea.

[gR3iF]

The odd thing about is. That in Germany by law Antivirus programms and anty intruder programms and so on. So everything a hacker and a normal lan admin need to work with will be banished by law.
So no one can have a anti virus programm running while they installed the trojan horse.

The other really weird thing is that a policy called "Bka" shall be alloud to go into your house and install the trojan house just in cause of a rumor that you are a terrorist.

Get the Point?

[HAL7000]

Originally Posted by gR3iF

The odd thing about is. That in Germany by law Antivirus programms and anty intruder programms and so on. So everything a hacker and a normal lan admin need to work with will be banished by law.
So no one can have a anti virus programm running while they installed the trojan horse.

The other really weird thing is that a policy called "Bka" shall be alloud to go into your house and install the trojan house just in cause of a rumor that you are a terrorist.

Get the Point?

where is the documentation to support this......thanks