Advice on New Build

[the_flying_scotsman]

Im looking to build a new Desktop, i built my previous one but that was about 4 years ago.
Was just wondering about any advice anyone would have about what im looking at.

Specs

Gigabyte GA-X48-DQ6 or GIGABYTE GA-X48T-DQ6 (Only difference being DDR2 or DDR3 Ram)
Intel QX9770
Western Digital Caviar 1TB SATA 7200RPM or 2 Western Digital 500GB 7200rpm SATA
Antec 900 Case or the 1200 when it comes out
Radeon HD 3870 X2
Kingston HyperX 2GB kit DDR2 1200Mhz Non-ECC CL5 or
Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB DDR3 1866 (PC3 15000) Dual Channel Kit
Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W
Koolance water cooling system.

Any advice on these parts?

This machine will be used mainly for a bit of everything, but main purpose is gaming,video editing, animation.

Cheers

Nods head. If you can afford all that... by all means. 8)

[the_flying_scotsman]

Any thoughts on DDR2 v DDR3?

[nflesher87]

ditch:
- the QX9770 and opt for a QX9650 if you must have an extreme
- the TT Toughpower
- Antec 900
- Koolance (unless you must have an all in one system and don't want to piece together)

opt for:
- QX9650 as I mentioned, though I still even recommend something like an X3360 or 9550 and putting the ~$400 towards more useful stuff
- Corsair HX1000
- 7200.11 hard drives in RAID 0 (2-3) and the 1TB for storage
- 1150MHz ram or better DDR2, it'll be just as good if not better than DDR3 that's 4x more expensive
- Better case, and if you must have the Koolance, look into their pre build Lian Li systems already setup for watercooling

[EnergyFX]

Welcome to TPU!! You're going to get flamed on the Koolance... but not by me ;-)

Check my sig and you will see why.

It looks like you are pretty much going for a notch or two short of an all out extreme system. I'm a Koolance fanboy for now, so feel free to hit me up for any advice/suggestions on that line. I've probably got more experience with their products than anyone elso on this board. If I had my rig to do over again, I would have gone with one of their cases instead of this Tai-Chi I have now.

Edit: jeez this thread got a lot of hits while I was typing my original post. +1 on everything flesher suggested ('cept Koolance). DDR3 is great and yes going with a DDR3 MB will future proof a bit, but it's hard to justify the performance/cost ratio even if you have deep pockets. Fast DDR2 will serve you just fine and will certainly not be the bottleneck in a system. Also, I personally don't see the value of quad core CPUs unless you typically multitask like a one handed insurance broker during hurricane season. Top of the line dual core CPUs can keep up with most end user performance demands for less money and less power.

[nflesher87]

Originally Posted by EnergyFX

Welcome to TPU!! You're going to get flamed on the Koolance... but not by me ;-)

Check my sig and you will see why.

It looks like you are pretty much going for a notch or two short of an all out extreme system. I'm a Koolance fanboy for now, so feel free to hit me up for any advice/suggestions on that line. I've probably got more experience with their products than anyone elso on this board. If I had my rig to do over again, I would have gone with one of their cases instead of this Tai-Chi I have now.

your sys specs says all water, that include the PSU?

[the_flying_scotsman]

I am looking towards the extreme system, mainly due to that i will be doing a lot of multitasking, (usually run 4+ programs at once), also so i dont need to upgrade for a couple of years and will survive while im doing my computer science degree.
The main reason i have gone with koolance is that they were the only site to direct me to the parts i needed for the motherboard and video card.

Any suggestions on storage space, (i was offered the chance to buy a 10TB drive at trade)

[EnergyFX]

Originally Posted by nflesher87

your sys specs says all water, that include the PSU?

Oh shut up.

Trust me... it was in the plans, but if I hadn't wrapped up the project when I did I wouldn't be engaged anymore (I'm sure you can relate). So watercooling the PSU will have to wait until later. Koolance's new watercooled 1300w monster is soooo tempting... but I am hellbent on modding an aircooled unit myself.

Ah to dream.

[EnergyFX]

Originally Posted by the_flying_scotsman

I am looking towards the extreme system, mainly due to that i will be doing a lot of multitasking, (usually run 4+ programs at once), also so i dont need to upgrade for a couple of years and will survive while im doing my computer science degree.
The main reason i have gone with koolance is that they were the only site to direct me to the parts i needed for the motherboard and video card.

Any suggestions on storage space, (i was offered the chance to buy a 10TB drive at trade)

10TB??? Typo or holy crap huge??

You have lots of options for watercooling other than Koolance. Do some reading around in the cooling section of the board and you will find tons of info.

[farlex85]

I don't care how much multi-tasking your doing, an extreme is a waste of money. There just isn't a need for it. You could take a q9550 pretty close to 4ghz, and your not going to notice a difference, in other words, that extra $1000 just went to waste. Sorry sorry, don't mean to rant, but really, its just silly.

I've never seen a 10tb drive, you mean like a multi-drive raid storage thing (the name escapes me)? If the price is right, go for it. Many on this forum like the Samsung F1s, they are quick and got a good price/space layout.

[the_flying_scotsman]

Yea 10TB, not a typo. I have not actually seen this, but i know a importer/tech guy who uses them for there servers and desktops. Ill check with him and see prices etc.

[EnergyFX]

Originally Posted by farlex85

I don't care how much multi-tasking your doing, an extreme is a waste of money. There just isn't a need for it. You could take a q9550 pretty close to 4ghz, and your not going to notice a difference, in other words, that extra $1000 just went to waste. Sorry sorry, don't mean to rant, but really, its just silly.

I've never seen a 10tb drive, you mean like a multi-drive raid storage thing (the name escapes me)? If the price is right, go for it. Many on this forum like the Samsung F1s, they are quick and got a good price/space layout.

there is more to it than just maximum clock. The unlocked multiplier on the extreme allows you to tweak and tune the FSB up or down, which in turn lets you tweak your DRAM:FSB ratio, which in turn opens up tons of DRAM overclocking potential without the stability issues of wacky DRAM:FSB ratios.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but won't a 1:1 DRAM:FSB ratio typically perform smoother and more reliably than something like a 5:17 ratio (or some other random off balance ratio)

The real value of an Extreme Edition CPU comes in the overclock fine tuning. Being able to adjust the FSB multiplier up and down opens up a lot more options than a typical CPU that only lets you adjust the FSB down from stock. If you don't plan to go deep into CPU overclocking then yes, an Extreme is a huge waste.

[farlex85]

Originally Posted by EnergyFX

there is more to it than just maximum clock. The unlocked multiplier on the extreme allows you to tweak and tune the FSB up or down, which in turn lets you tweak your DRAM:FSB ratio, which in turn opens up tons of DRAM overclocking potential without the stability issues of wacky DRAM:FSB ratios.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but won't a 1:1 DRAM:FSB ratio typically perform smoother and more reliably than something like a 5:17 ratio (or some other random off balance ratio)

The real value of an Extreme Edition CPU comes in the overclock fine tuning. Being able to adjust the FSB multiplier up and down opens up a lot more options than a typical CPU that only lets you adjust the FSB down from stock. If you don't plan to go deep into CPU overclocking then yes, an Extreme is a huge waste.

So $1000 more for the ability to fine tune? That still seems like a waste to me. Yes the unlocked multiplier allows you to achieve ratios that otherwise would be difficult, but you can find smooth ground with a locked one. 1:1 is not necessarily the smoothest in all cases, it is sometimes, but it depends what kind of set-up you have. The real advantage of an extreme is that it can hit higher clocks than the locked multi ones. That is where it earns its name, but really, unless your going for "extreme" bench scores and ocs, your probably gonna have it running at the same speed you would w/ any other proc.

You'll have no problem hitting a 1:1 ratio w/ a q9550 if thats your fancy, and really, its good to get that fsb humming along as fast as you can, as it is the chokepoint for the entire system. So yes, it allows you more possibilities, and is certainly slightly better, but its not anywhere close to worth its weight in gold. If intel was kept honest, its worth is about that of the q9550, while the ladder should be cheaper.

But hey, it is what it is, it certainly gives you the super oc benchies w/ the e-peen, and it is the best. But in everyday multi-tasking (6,7 programs at once), real performance, the difference is negligable at best.

[EnergyFX]

Originally Posted by farlex85

So $1000 more for the ability to fine tune? That still seems like a waste to me. Yes the unlocked multiplier allows you to achieve ratios that otherwise would be difficult, but you can find smooth ground with a locked one. 1:1 is not necessarily the smoothest in all cases, it is sometimes, but it depends what kind of set-up you have. The real advantage of an extreme is that it can hit higher clocks than the locked multi ones. That is where it earns its name, but really, unless your going for "extreme" bench scores and ocs, your probably gonna have it running at the same speed you would w/ any other proc.

You'll have no problem hitting a 1:1 ratio w/ a q9550 if thats your fancy, and really, its good to get that fsb humming along as fast as you can, as it is the chokepoint for the entire system. So yes, it allows you more possibilities, and is certainly slightly better, but its not anywhere close to worth its weight in gold. If intel was kept honest, its worth is about that of the q9550, while the ladder should be cheaper.

But hey, it is what it is, it certainly gives you the super oc benchies w/ the e-peen, and it is the best. But in everyday multi-tasking (6,7 programs at once), real performance, the difference is negligable at best.

Now see... NOW I can agree with you. Your first post just slammed the Extreme as a waste of money and moved to declare that the non-Extreme was just as good, which is true only from a biased viewpoint.

The value of the Extreme depends on the end user. If the unlocked multiplier and the ability to reliably overclock the entire system a tad bit further is worth $1000 to the user... the the Extreme is NOT a waste of money to THAT user. If the user hasn't the desire and/or skill to utilize the Extreme's capabilities... THEN it is a waste.

With that said... to me (and you, farlex) its a waste!

[farlex85]

Originally Posted by EnergyFX

Now see... NOW I can agree with you. Your first post just slammed the Extreme as a waste of money and moved to declare that the non-Extreme was just as good, which is true only from a biased viewpoint.

The value of the Extreme depends on the end user. If the unlocked multiplier and the ability to reliably overclock the entire system a tad bit further is worth $1000 to the user... the the Extreme is NOT a waste of money to THAT user. If the user hasn't the desire and/or skill to utilize the Extreme's capabilities... THEN it is a waste.

With that said... to me (and you, farlex) its a waste!

Sorry, yeah, I don't mean to just hate (although intel's prices do irritate me sometimes), its just a lot of people come here and ask for build advice while knowing very little about what they're doing. They see the extreme, and go for it cause they have the money, and in many cases, will not utilize it. Many gamers seem to think it will improve their gaming experience, which just isn't true in almost all cases. I'm not sure how much experience the op has or what he's trying to do, but when they say they get the extreme b/c they want to multi-task, I just try to make it clear that its probably a waste of money to THEM.

If he's going for super high ocs and big benchies, lots of oc fun, and if he knows what he's doing, then maybe the extreme is worth considering. If he's just trying to multi-task, and the thing he listed in the initial post, the money is wasted. Thats all I was saying.

[the_flying_scotsman]

Thanks for the Advice, the processor choice was based on the overclocking as opposed to the multitasking. I also chose this to future-proof the system so i will not have to worry about changing many parts for a number of years. I am also aiming for bench mark scores and being able to run any other high end (inc Crysis) games that may be coming out.

[farlex85]

Originally Posted by the_flying_scotsman

Thanks for the Advice, the processor choice was based on the overclocking as opposed to the multitasking. I also chose this to future-proof the system so i will not have to worry about changing many parts for a number of years. I am also aiming for bench mark scores and being able to run any other high end (inc Crysis) games that may be coming out.

The high ocs and benchies it will certainly help w/, as well as video encoding and such. Games like Crysis, not so much. Most all games are heavily gpu reliant, and that is a far more critical factor. You will not see a difference between an extreme and non-extreme in almost all cases for games. But I think I've made my point clear enough, I will stop trying to drive it home.

Just remember, there is also no such thing as future proof. Your system will undoubtably be the best you can get at least until nahalem, but things change quickly. That being said, in real world performance, the only thing you should HAVE to change to do the latest and greatest in the next 4-5 years is the video card. Anyway, looks like a sweet rig, enjoy it, and I'm intrigued to hear about this 10tb drive.....

[the_flying_scotsman]

Ok, cheers, ill take your advise on board, ill let you know as soon as i find out about the 10TB drive.

Also NVIDIA v ATI any recommendations and if so what cards?
(I have read a numerous reviews but cant decide)

[farlex85]

When are you trying to build this? Nvidia and ATI are bringing their new generations this summer, and if the rumored specs are true, they are worth waiting for. The new 4870 regular looks to be faster than the current 3870x2 (although its still speculation right now).

As for current, I'd say you got it good right now. x48s oc much better than nvidia chipsets (allthough nvidia's cards have tended to be faster generally as of late), so cf w/ ati would be your best choice if your looking to oc. You may just wanna try to hold out for the 4870 or 4870x2. Or there's always e-bay......

[theeldest]

In regards to the HDD(s),

I'm not sure about Vista, but XP requires a swap space whether or not you have enough memory (I don't know what it does with it). I've found, that having more than one drive is beneficial. Windows and Apps on one drive, then partition the second drive. Make a 4GB partition at the start of the second drive (or is the end of the drive quicker?) and place your only swap space on that partition.

This way, when your computer tries to access the swap while you're running applications, the bandwidth for the apps is not comprimised by swap access.


My experience:
I did run a RAID-0 array (2x250GB), everything there. I stopped doing that when things started acting funny. Changed back to two separate drives, and did the swap partition thing.

The swap partition is not as quick as the RAID setup, but it is definately quicker than swap being on the same drive as the applications (Very noticeable in Oblivion).

It's a comprimise between speed and safety (RAID0 failures are depressing).


But, as I said, I don't know how Vista behaves.

[the_flying_scotsman]

Build will be sometime later this year. With regards to the 10TB drive, they are a pre production run so not officially launched. Around a cost of $4000 NZD

[farlex85]

Depending on how much later, that entire build could change a good bit. Just keep your eyes open.

$4000, I guess that sounds about right. Do you have a link? You probably would be better off getting a few 1tb drives and putting them in raid, then as you need more space add on. You wouldn't want a 10tb drive to fail on you......

[the_flying_scotsman]

There is nothing floating around on the net due to them being pre productions. They have done a limited number release for testing. They are from Western Digital

[cdawall]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220304

should do 1866mhz just fine seeing how it uses the same chips as the patriot 1866