GPU PhysX Doesn't get you to 3DMark Vantage Hall of Fame Anymore

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by mullered07

proof of that i want to see

I think he means that his 2x 8800 GTS + score increase due to PhysX > 2x HD4870 ?

[mullered07]

the whole point futuremark are making is that the physX test in 3dmark vatage were made for the cpu not a gpu and it doesnt represent real world gaming as the nvidia gpus are only being used for the physx in the test and not for rendering graphics at the same time which is what would happen in a real world scenario (ie gpu would be rendering graphics and physx at the same time)

and ati gpu are fully capable of doing physx only they would have to create there own api as cuda belongs to nvidia (who didnt create it either before the nvidia fanboys start)

[Kursah]

Originally Posted by mullered07

the whole point futuremark are making is that the physX test in 3dmark vatage were made for the cpu not a gpu and it doesnt represent real world gaming as the nvidia gpus are only being used for the physx in the test and not for rendering graphics at the same time which is what would happen in a real world scenario (ie gpu would be rendering graphics and physx at the same time)

This is what dissapointed me most of FM...they knew this was coming, couldn't have been completely blind to it and should've done another physX test that stressed modern GPU's on the PhsyX and Rendering at the same time for a more proper score...sure it might've been headscratching at release, and maybe they didn't know or didn't have the proper tools...if not then an update will hopefully truly be in the works to alleviate this. I'd like to see a test just for simultaneous Rendering and PhysX GPU...I don't care as much about benches or scores, but to tout a bench that should be better at predicing modern performance, it should have this test in it.

Hopefully we'll see that happen!

[candle_86]

personally whats the issue, the GPU was designed to act as a Physx card, so whats the issue you dont have to spend 100 bucks for the card now?

[Darknova]

Originally Posted by candle_86

personally whats the issue, the GPU was designed to act as a Physx card, so whats the issue you dont have to spend 100 bucks for the card now?

That's not the issue.

The issue is that a CPU physics test is being offloaded onto the GPU. In Futuremarks rules this is NOT allowed. Therefore its technically cheating.

[Megasty]

Originally Posted by Darknova

That's not the issue.

The issue is that a CPU physics test is being offloaded onto the GPU. In Futuremarks rules this is NOT allowed. Therefore its technically cheating.

I don't care about the cheating. I just want them to get it right for the games.

[Darknova]

Originally Posted by Megasty

I don't care about the cheating. I just want them to get it right for the games.

Same lol, but that's the topic of this discussion is it not?

[Megasty]

Originally Posted by Darknova

Same lol, but that's the topic of this discussion is it not?

Yeah, but that is FM's problem. Its plain to anyone to see who is using PhysX & who isn't. The GPU score isn't affected by it but the overall score is. FM turned a blind eye to it at first but its still cheating, so they had finally step in, especially when it was making such a ridiculous difference with the CPU score

[H82LUZ73]

this is from Driver Heaven`s R700 preview test setup pic.......notice the blue card?

[mullered07]

Originally Posted by candle_86

personally whats the issue, the GPU was designed to act as a Physx card, so whats the issue you dont have to spend 100 bucks for the card now?

read my last post

no one is moaning the gpu can do physics but in the cpu physx test the gpu is soley using physx, its not rendering anything else like it would do in game so therefore doesnt represent real gaming/benchmarking(in a game the gpu would be used to render the game aswell as using physx thus taxing it more ), if people are to stupid/ignorant to actually read the article and understand what fm are on about they really shouldnt be commenting on the topic at hand

[Hayder_Master]

guys i just want to ask what is the last physics card release , last one i see it is asus p1 , anything new , and i see someone say the physics on nvidia gpu better than physics card is that true

[Bytor]

I think this is the latest Asus P1 and its PCI-e. The Asus P1 I have is PCI..


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121246

[Hayder_Master]

as i told before , only a program can help physics on ati , just like some guy do it before and go more than p22000 score in vantage with 4870 , and nvidia got the guy and he work with nvidia now , aslo i sure for something which is it my frien want to buy a program from nvidia to help him render 3d max projects on gpu , we now it is more fater than cpu , and am sure physics is same thing

[1c3d0g]

This is why I dislike Futuremark and their stupid benches so much. It's just some rabid fan boys trying to measure who's e-penis is the biggest, but at the end of the day, what did they really "win"? Even if they get the highest score, they're still retarded...nobody with an ounce of sanity wastes so much time and energy into such a pointless benchmark.

[mullered07]

i must say 3dMark vantage looks like a piece of shit to me anyway, god knows who they had coding that for them but that first test "jane nash" looks absolutely awful, i think all they have really done is concentrate on sm3/4? shaders and giving everything that gay unrealistic looking glow and thought bollox to the rest. im not impressed and feel its more of a tideover until 3dmark09/10? comes out.

[Evo85]

People get waaaay to bent out of shape over this kind of thing. Must be a E-peen thing..

I have always look at benchmarking as a way to judge changes I make to my system. OC this,
add a better cooler there, run Futuremark, see what the difference is. What matters to me is real world performance. As long as my system is capable of running what I throw at it, and is rock solid I dont really pay to much attention to the numbers...

[warhammer]

3dMark vantage is not real world gaming or performance..

[farlex85]

Originally Posted by warhammer

3dMark vantage is not real world gaming or performance..

Real world gaming is just another benchmark, and is subject to the same biases and differences that 3dmark is. I really don't know why that argument always gets brought up. Just b/c a game is popular doesn't make it a better bench than a program like 3dmark.

I personally find it a little hard to believe fm didn't intend for this sort of effect on scores, as physX is built into the final and difference making test. PhysX being there completely changes the way the test is run. Did they not know nvidia was putting physX on their cards? Did they think this would just be for dedicated physics cards? I doubt it. The bench really is done poorly, and planned very poorly. That last test should be a seperate category for physics, calling it a cpu score is a cause for all the frizzy. I also agree w/ mulder, I think it doesn't look very good at all. They need to figure out something new to accomodate this changing graphics processing arena.

[mullered07]

Originally Posted by farlex85

Real world gaming is just another benchmark, and is subject to the same biases and differences that 3dmark is. I really don't know why that argument always gets brought up. Just b/c a game is popular doesn't make it a better bench than a program like 3dmark.

I personally find it a little hard to believe fm didn't intend for this sort of effect on scores, as physX is built into the final and difference making test. PhysX being there completely changes the way the test is run. Did they not know nvidia was putting physX on their cards? Did they think this would just be for dedicated physics cards? I doubt it. The bench really is done poorly, and planned very poorly. That last test should be a seperate category for physics, calling it a cpu score is a cause for all the frizzy. I also agree w/ mulder, I think it doesn't look very good at all. They need to figure out something new to accomodate this changing graphics processing arena.

its mullered

[farlex85]

Originally Posted by mullered07

its mullered

Sorry. I confused you w/ a paranormal investigator.

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by H82LUZ73

this is from Driver Heaven`s R700 preview test setup pic.......notice the blue card?

PhysX driver allows you to use either the Ageia card or GeForce physics, not both. So if they use a test bed with a Ageia card, it makes for an even (fair) ground in which to test R700 against GTX 280 or any other card, since GTX 280's physics abilities won't be used by the driver, in each test, the PhysX card adds to the score.

[Wile E]

I think it's silly to not include the Physx scores, so long as you are using FM approved WQHL drivers.

Banning gpu Physx in Vantage is like banning quad core cpus in 06. Going from a 3Ghz dual core to a 4GHz quad doesn't change your gaming experience at all, but it sure as hell boosts 06 scores.

I think if they are gonna ban hardware that gives an "unfair advantage" in their benchmarks because "it doesn't reflect real world scenarios", then they should do it with all of there benchmarks.

It's not the decision that upsets me, it's their lack of consistency in this. If you apply an "unfair advantage" rule to one bench, you should do it to all of them.

[tkpenalty]

Originally Posted by Wile E

I think it's silly to not include the Physx scores, so long as you are using FM approved WQHL drivers.

Banning gpu Physx in Vantage is like banning quad core cpus in 06. Going from a 3Ghz dual core to a 4GHz quad doesn't change your gaming experience at all, but it sure as hell boosts 06 scores.

I think if they are gonna ban hardware that gives an "unfair advantage" in their benchmarks because "it doesn't reflect real world scenarios", then they should do it with all of there benchmarks.

It's not the decision that upsets me, it's their lack of consistency in this. If you apply an "unfair advantage" rule to one bench, you should do it to all of them.

Think of this. One system with one 8800GT. When you're gaming I doubt the GPU will simultaneously process physics while processing graphics. FM basically are saying that and thats why the GPU score is invalid.

Okay so lets say you have one 8600GT for Physics and one 8800GT for Graphics.

Going from 3Ghz to 4Ghz DOES give performance gains with Core 2. GRID goes from moderately smooth 30-40 FPS up to 50-60 FPS.

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by tkpenalty

Going from 3Ghz to 4Ghz DOES give performance gains with Core 2. GRID goes from moderately smooth 30-40 FPS up to 50-60 FPS.

I'm sorry TK (and no offense intended), but I don't believe that. I think you are simply mistaken. I would need proof. I've already seen countless benchmarks that say otherwise, even in some of my own testing.

[tkpenalty]

Originally Posted by Wile E

I'm sorry TK (and no offense intended), but I don't believe that. I think you are simply mistaken. I would need proof. I've already seen countless benchmarks that say otherwise, even in some of my own testing.

Consider the chipset, and memory that you are using first. This RAM doesn't yield good memory performance; latencies are fairly high with rather weak read/write.

I take no offense, and in your case its different its like comparing apples to oranges.