All of you muscle car elitists and crazy southerners and whatnot...

[B1gg3stN00b]

I know, but parts for foreign cars are also expensive

I drive well, I like to think, and I've never had an issue with any of the many cars I've driven besides Chrysler.

Which is why I was iffy about Dodge.

[flashstar]

300zx with tuned Turbos = 400hp instantly without any modifications.



Eww...

[B1gg3stN00b]

300ZX also are dinosaurs.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...000&cardist=12

There's a beast of a Subaru.

If I drove around town in a 300ZX I might just end up killing myself at the feel of how gay I am driving an ancient early 90s Nissan that pretends to be a race car.

Also, that's a pretty Alero. It doesn't try to be anything more than a plain daily driver coupe/sedan.


Lol wannabe supercar.

If I wanted an asian car to tune to run at the quarter mile or something I'd buy a Honda CRX and do an engine swap.

[flashstar]

The 300zx doesn't have to pretend. At 400+ hp, you're not going to find many competitors within the price range...

I guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by B1gg3stN00b

300ZX also are dinosaurs.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...000&cardist=12

There's a beast of a Subaru.

If I drove around town in a 300ZX I might just end up killing myself at the feel of how gay I am driving an ancient early 90s Nissan that pretends to be a race car.

Also, that's a pretty Alero. It doesn't try to be anything more than a plain daily driver coupe/sedan.


Lol wannabe supercar.

That's one riced out example of a 300ZX. Nobody said you had to rice one out. I'm sorry, but you'd look more gay driving the Alero around. And the Z is much more than a drag car. They far out handle an Alero, even in stock trim.

I still don't recommend a Z for your needs tho. They don't have the storage and seating you require.

[imperialreign]

Originally Posted by Wile E

400hp is just as easy to hit on any of the cars I listed as well, especially if you grab a factory turboed Subaru.

Sorry, but Aleros are crap compared to other cars in their class from other makers.

true to an extent - but the Alero was somewhat cheaply put together . . .

out of the 5th generation N-bodys - the Grand Am GT models held up a lot better. There are some major mechanical differences between the GAGT and the Alero GL, better suspension, better transmission, larger fuel tank . . . plus, I always found the interior of the 5th gen GAs to have been put together much better. I've never seen a 5th gen GA faliing apart on the inside like so many Alero's do. I stand by my initial arguement that the biggest reason most of these cars fall apart is owner neglect, and the majority of Alero owners don't do squat to the cars

besides, the 3400 v6 is capable of good fuel economy . . .

but, if we're going to recommend from the mid-size category, a newer G6 or Malibu Maxx are much better, IMO.

[JC316]

Originally Posted by imperialreign

coming straight from a mechanic:


any car, whether domestic or import, will easily last 15+ years, 200k miles if you properly maintain it.

This, IMO, is where I've seen domestics over the last 10 model years take a lot of flak - the cars are reliable, it's just owners are negligent. Truthfully, most import owners seem to be willing to take care of their vehicles a bit more, which has only served to help import reliability. But, based upon what I've seen, imports are just as reliable as domestics, it all boils down to owner care nearly 90% of the time. The other 10% is just vehicle quirks, which every make/model has.


I second the notion of staying away from chryslers, though. They hae some motor issues now and then, and just doing simple maintinence (like changing a battery) is a complete PITA.

I agree 100%. I had a 2 owner, 86 Honda accord with 186K miles that was like brand new inside and out. The first owner took excellent care of it, but gave it to her grandson. He had let a hose get old, it broke and it popped a head gasket, because he didn't maintain it, it died on him. I got it, fixed it and it's still running great to this day.

In contrast, I got a 1 owner 99 Taurus with 123K miles that was TRASHED. The last confirmed oil change was 5 years ago and the motor was a sludged up mess that spun a bearing. The inside was no better than the motor, completely trashed.

Funny that the older, higher milage car was in better shape than the newer, low mileage car.

[flashstar]

Mileage doesn't mean anything to an extent...

[imperialreign]

Originally Posted by JC316

I agree 100%. I had a 2 owner, 86 Honda accord with 186K miles that was like brand new inside and out. The first owner took excellent care of it, but gave it to her grandson. He had let a hose get old, it broke and it popped a head gasket, because he didn't maintain it, it died on him. I got it, fixed it and it's still running great to this day.

In contrast, I got a 1 owner 99 Taurus with 123K miles that was TRASHED. The last confirmed oil change was 5 years ago and the motor was a sludged up mess that spun a bearing. The inside was no better than the motor, completely trashed.

Funny that the older, higher milage car was in better shape than the newer, low mileage car.

that's something I see every day - even just browsing the many "car review by owner" websites is ridiculous, most people's complaints boil down to average maintenance issues. Hell, just last week I had a customer that was throwing a shit-fit becuase his 2000 Nissan Maxima, with 50k miles, had a battery that up and died one morning. He even told me he's never had to do anything else to the car (sounds reasonable for 50k), but was steamed because the battery only lasted . . . 8 years

batteries die - the quality ones will last 6-8 years, the cheap ones 1-3. When you factor in the heat and humidty, and our wildly changing weather here, it lowers their life as well. I don't know how or why people can purchase a new car, and expect it to never break . . .


and it seems, the more the spend on the car at the dealer's lot - the more they expect it to never break. The majority of BMW, Mercedes, Porsche owners tend to be strange like that. I once had a guy with a late 90s BMW Z trying to claim his car was so advanced, it had a "check oil" light to let you know when you need to have the oil changed

if you wait until the "check oil" light comes on before you change the oil . . . you might want to interpret that light as "change motor."

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by B1gg3stN00b

That extra 30k miles is another 30k miles I can run it before it hits the point when it would croak whilst properly maintained.

Also a lot of things go wrong as it edges towards the 70k mark. For many cars that's the time for timing belt replacement, water pumps going bad etc. I've noticed.

I dunno.

I'm trying to find a V6 Alero with low miles, I wish they still made them! I loved mine so much, what a reliable, amazing vehicle it was!

Honestly anything for like 10 years will hit 100k without needed a timing belt, pump and such. Let me put it this way, I drive a mercury mystique and it's probably one of the most reliable cars I know, we've had the fuel pump go, starter solenoid, and a fuel gasket all go, but the timing belt and water pump, not a hiccup as far as I can tell. Usually with most modern cars it's not the actual engine that gets f*ed up with not crazy drivers but other things like the fuel delivery or ignition or electronics or transmissions, it seems like the actual engine of most modern cars are built pretty damn well.

[flashstar]

On some cars like the 300zx which have timing belts need them changed every 60,000 miles. Past that, if the belt breaks you frequently need to rebuild the engine.

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by flashstar

On some cars like the 300zx which have timing belts need them changed every 60,000 miles. Past that, if the belt breaks you frequently need to rebuild the engine.

Eh but most (key word) engines aren't like that anymore. At any rate he doesn't want a 300 zx, because I'm pretty sure he said something about a decent sized back seat, so that's implying like mid-size sedan.

[flashstar]

Originally Posted by kwchang007

Eh but most (key word) engines aren't like that anymore. At any rate he doesn't want a 300 zx, because I'm pretty sure he said something about a decent sized back seat, so that's implying like mid-size sedan.

Yeah, he wants a sissy car. That's alright though.

I was just using it as an example because that's what I'm familiar with. Most new cars use timing chains that need to be replaced every 120,000 miles or so.

[JC316]

Biggestnoob since you obviously have the notion that new and low mileage instantly makes a better car just, go out and buy a honda accord. Has a big back seat, gets good gas mileage and is just about what you are looking for.

Oh and before you put the 300ZX down, you might drive one.

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by flashstar

Yeah, he wants a sissy car. That's alright though.

I was just using it as an example because that's what I'm familiar with. Most new cars use timing chains that need to be replaced every 120,000 miles or so.

loll well you know there are uses for backseats also I'm pretty sure it should be less to insure a sedan rather than a sporty coupe. Although if I had the money I would defiantly take a 300zx over a sedan lol.

[imperialreign]

Originally Posted by flashstar

On some cars like the 300zx which have timing belts need them changed every 60,000 miles. Past that, if the belt breaks you need to replace the engine.

fixed



most imports have finally gotten away from timing belts - but there are still quite a lot out there making use of them.

Easiest way to check for 90% of timing belt motors: when you pop the hood and look at the motor - if the side of the motor with all the pulleys looks like it has black, plastic covers on it - it has a timing belt.

If you're looking at a vehicle with 100-120k miles on it, and it has a timing belt - check to see if the owner has had the belt replaced yet. If not, you'll need to replace it soon . . . meaning that you'e buying a vehicle that you'll immediately have to put money into

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by imperialreign

fixed



most imports have finally gotten away from timing belts - but there are still quite a lot out there making use of them.

Easiest way to check for 90% of timing belt motors: when you pop the hood and look at the motor - if the side of the motor with all the pulleys looks like it has black, plastic covers on it - it has a timing belt.

If you're looking at a vehicle with 100-120k miles on it, and it has a timing belt - check to see if the owner has had the belt replaced yet. If not, you'll need to replace it soon . . . meaning that you'e buying a vehicle that you'll immediately have to put money into

Well wait I know chain engines have accessory belts also....

[flashstar]

The only thing that really matters is the timing belt. If the timing belt breaks and it's an interference engine, the pistons crash into the valves and you will need to do some major engine work. It's usually just cheaper to buy a new engine. Accessory belts breaking won't usually kill the engine.

[kwchang007]

Originally Posted by flashstar

The only thing that really matters is the timing belt. If the timing belt breaks and it's an interference engine, the pistons crash into the valves and you will need to do some major engine work. It's usually just cheaper to buy a new engine. Accessory belts breaking won't usually kill the engine.

Yeahh, I wonder, chains are usually interference engines right? What exactly is an interference engine anyways?

[flashstar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfe...e#Interference

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by kwchang007

Yeahh, I wonder, chains are usually interference engines right? What exactly is an interference engine anyways?

INterference engines are engine that are designed in a way that if the cam goes out of timing, the valves can make contact with the pistons. So if the timing belt breaks, the valves aren't opening and closing any more, the pistons come up, and hit the valves that are open.

On non-interference engines, all that happens is the car quits running. lol.

[imperialreign]

Originally Posted by kwchang007

Yeahh, I wonder, chains are usually interference engines right? What exactly is an interference engine anyways?

chain and belt -

90% of modern 4cyl and 6cyl motors, as well as a large handful of 8cyl motors are interference.

an interference motor is called such, becuase if a piston was 100% extended upward in the cylinder, and either the intake of exhaust valves where fully opened, the two would hit each other, or interfere.

Seeing as how neither of these components can inhabit the same space at the same time, the motor is timed perfectly so that they don't interfere with each other's travel.

but once the timing drive, either a belt or chain, breaks - they're no longer moving in synch with each other, and things get extremelly bent out of shape. 90% of the time, the upper-end of the motor is trashed enough to require components to be replaced. You'd be lucky as well if the block survives in a state that's rebuildable.

[kwchang007]

Why don't they all just design non-interference engines? And if the cars running a chain shouldn't the OP be concerned about mileage also?

[Nitro-Max]

Absolutly shocking mileage lol my peugeot 106 gets me 60+ mpg 45 round town. you americans seriously need help in this day and age.

[imperialreign]

Originally Posted by kwchang007

Why don't they all just design non-interference engines? And if the cars running a chain shouldn't the OP be concerned about mileage also?

not really - a timing chain is farily indestructible for the most part (*cough* QUAD4 *cough*). Plus, the chain is constantly lubricated by the engine's oil as well.

The motors that do have issues with chains, are those that use a hydraulic tensioning system - that is, the hydaulic pressure from the oil system "pumps-up" the chain tensioner to keep pressure on the chain so as to not create any slack. But, when you have drivers that change the oil once a year, sludge will build up in the small oil galleys leading to the tensioner, which causes the tensioner to slowly put less and less pressure on the chain - which results in the chain becoming more and more loose.

In theses instances, you can hear the loose chain rattling against the timing cover, and sometimes the loose chain can even eat away at component drive sprockets . . . sooner or later, the chain will jump a tooth on one of the sprockets, and it's good-bye motor.