The Mass Effect 3 Thread

[Frag Maniac]

I'll add one more response then sign off. I appreciate your comments, but I think they're more of opinion than fact.

Husks are Husks, plain and simple. They're Human corpses reanimated by the Geths using Reaper tech, specifically using a kind of impalement. There's not enough said about how Collectors are made to support that their origin is anything like Husks. Harbinger only possesses Collectors. I would think if Husks were so similar he'd once in a while possess them too. Protheans are a much smarter race to start with. Also, you started out saying Husks are not indoctrinated. Now you're lumping Collectors in with them saying they're like a form of Husk. Can't really have it both ways.

As with indoctrination, you seem to be interjecting a lot of your own assumptions when it comes to the reasons for Harbinger's actions. Just because he admires Shepard's tenacity and ingenuity doesn't mean he's there merely because he's fascinated by him. A strange romance possibility and something about giant bedbugs comes to mind. LOL

At the end of ME 2 and even before Shepard escapes the asteroid before destroying the alpha relay Harbinger makes it clear he's there to destroy the Humans (asteroid) and that the Collectors had failed him (ending). That sounds all too much like a war bent general to be there just spectating.

Clearly he's there overseeing what the Collectors are doing. Although I do find huge flaw in him saying to Shepard on the asteroid that Humanity must be destroyed. Kinda throws the whole harvest the smart, let the rest go mission statement right out the hypocritical window.

So yeah, lots of flaws in the game, but there's every bit as many flaws and ideas in what some of the fans want (and try to creatively interpret). Speaking of the asteroid, I had one guy refute what I said about it not making sense that the endings showing all the relays being blown up didn't in turn wipe out the systems they were in, using the supernova created by the asteroid hitting the alpha relay as an example.

He claimed it was explained by Dr Kenson that "a mass relay blowing up by itself won't cause a mini supernova but rather its because the size of the object they slam into the relay causes the mini supernova effect due to sheer force". Well no she didn't. I showed that conversation to him and nowhere in it does she say or even imply that. She only said the asteroid would probably be enough to destroy it.

Furthermore, you'd think something as powerful as the Crucible would create just as much force, causing a supernova and in turn destroying the systems the relays are in. Whether it's an intelligent Prothean ray beam or not, it's still using a shit load of energy to destroy THAT many relays one after the other, yet no supernovas, no destroyed systems.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

At the end of ME 2 and even before Shepard escapes the asteroid before destroying the alpha relay Harbinger makes it clear he's there to destroy the Humans (asteroid) and that the Collectors had failed him (ending). That sounds all too much like a war bent general to be there just spectating.

The Collector's primary purpose is to facilitate the return of the Reapers should indoctrinated agents (for sure Saren, Matriarch Benezia, the Illusive Man, and Dr. Amanda Kenson) fail to do so. By being wiped out by Shepherd, they failed in their objective. The Collector's secondary purpose is to study the sentient species for weaknesses and technology the Repears could potentially use (I recall discussion about this with Mordin Solus on Omega in ME3--I believe it was in books leading up to ME2 as well).

Those are the only four named characters I can recall, at this time, that were explicitly said to be indoctrinated (you witnessed them experiencing/fighting it).

[pr0n Inspector]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

That was merely a so called "theory" that the devs verbally refuted. There was never anything in any of the ME games to suggest that indoctrination was anything more than the Reapers mentally and physical controlling various species for use as ground troops while being directly overseen by them.

The whole idea of using indoctrination for elaborate brainwash was quite a leap of the imagination, and one that doesn't even make sense. Why would they go to all that trouble only to have Shepard choosing for himself whether to control, destroy or join with the Reapers? If they wanted to brainwash him, don't you think they'd convince him that all organics needed to be controlled by the Reapers?

YOU DON'T GET IT. Bioware is infallible. It's fundamentally impossible for Bioware to fuck up the endings like the Battlestar Galactica staff did. They planned it all along, period.
Also I'm immue to your facts and logic.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by pr0n Inspector

Also I'm immue to your facts and logic.

At least you admit what you're up against.

Seriously though, I get the angst toward Bioware's way of doing things, I'm just not convinced a lot of the ones making the most common gripes are even on the same page with what they were trying to do/say, regardless what kind of ending they want. Some of that can be blamed on Bio's vagueness, but certainly not all of it.

[entropy13]

I just got this today. Just finished rescuing the female. LOL

[FordGT90Concept]

I just finished the Leviathan DLC and the official ending finally makes sense. I won't spoil it but it is definitely worth playing.

Shame on Bioware. If Leviathan was included in the game instead of a DLC, the whole ending-sucks fiasco wouldn't have happened. Well, it probably would have (3-color bursts aren't very exciting) but it wouldn't have created the mass outcry.

One can only hope EA learned their lesson on moving major plot elements to DLCs. Everyone else in the industry should take heed too.

[D007]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I just finished the Leviathan DLC and the official ending finally makes sense. I won't spoil it but it is definitely worth playing.

Shame on Bioware. If Leviathan was included in the game instead of a DLC, the whole ending-sucks fiasco wouldn't have happened. Well, it probably would have (3-color bursts aren't very exciting) but it wouldn't have created the mass outcry.

One can only hope EA learned their lesson on moving major plot elements to DLCs. Everyone else in the industry should take heed too.

So I finally have a reason to play ME 3 again..

[FordGT90Concept]

The endings now make sense with Leviathan and Extended Cut DLCs.

Do not read these if you intend to play them. MEGA SPOILERS:

Leviathan

The Leviathan are massive organic creatures that created the AI (aka Catalyst) that created the Reapers (Harbinger was the first). Every cycle, Reapers would harvest the dominent speices and create synthetic creatures in their image. Harbinger was made from Leviathan so it looks like a Leviathan. The Reaper killed in Mass Effect 2 was made from humans so it looked like a human.

Leviathan created Reapers because they bore witness to cycles of destruction where organics would create synthetics and synthetics would kill off their creators. Leviathan then intervened wiping out the synthetics so organics would be able to rise again. To break the cycle, they created an AI in order to solve the problem. The AI decided the only way to end the cycle is for the Reapers to harvest (preserve) all synthetic and advanced organic life. Organics could rise again to later be wiped out. Basically, Reapers are limited synthetic forms that are forbidden to kill all organics which, supposedly, synthetic life forms would be driven to do.

Reapers communicate via something like quantum entanglement. Indoctrination works through extended exposure to Reaper tech. Leviathan can do something similar to indoctrination but it apparently it doesn't require extended exposure to succeed where Reapers do. Reapers fear Leviathan because Levithan can destroy Reapers but Reapers do not yet know how to destroy Levitthan without literally killing them (like any other organic).

If Extended Cut and Leviathan is installed, during the end sequence, Shepherd can ask Catalyst about the Leviathan. It admits it was created by them and that the very solution they seek required their destruction.

Extended Cut

I didn't see anything different in the final Cerberus mission or any of the Earth mission except in the final charge to the Citadel.

Extended Cut added a scene before reaching the Citdadel where your two squadmates get hit, Normandy comes in (without getting destroyed is anyone's guess), picks them up, then it resumes with you shooting three husks and one of those Turan husks as normal.

NOTE: This effectively starts a new mission. If you want to see other endings, "Restart Mission" after the credits scroll will take you back here.

Next, they added a video which shows Admiral Hackette announcing that someone made it inside the Citadel.

Next, it's the same hallway you do a long, slow walk down but they changed the voice overs between Anderson and Shepherd to be more in sync; therefore, making sense. It is now clear that Anderson is walking the same path as you but ahead of you a ways.

In the exchange with the Illusive Man and Anderson, as well as the start of the meeting with Catalyst, I saw no changes.

With the Catalyst, there is a lot more Q&A explaining what exactly happened. You can question him about each choice as well.

The same ending videos remain where you see alliance forces fighting, a burst of green, blue, or orange/red color bursts over everything but, in addition to that, they added shots of Krogan on Tuchunka and Asari on Thessia cheering. If you choose to control the Reapers, it shows the Citadel closing and moving (previously, it blew up too).

Catalyst explicitly says the Illusive Man was indoctrinated and Shepherd is not.

NOTE: They added an autosave point here. If you want to see all the endings with minimal sitting through cutscenes, go to Documents\BioWare\Mass Effect 3\Save\CHARACTER_FOLDER and move AutoSave.pcsav out of this directory. To get back to decision making time, copy the file back, overwriting the old one, then load the autosave.

All three have the same conclusion as previously where leaves show on a planet with the Normandy on it with the same people walking out as previously shown. For me, it was:
Control - Joker, Ashley (lover), Jarvik (was in squad on final attack)
Synthesis - Joker, EDI, Ashley (lover)
Destroy - Joker, Ashley (lover), Jarvik (was in squad on final attack)

After all these endings, they added new videos--all of them positive. Control is voiced by Shephered, Destory is voiced by Hackett, and Synthesis is voiced by EDI. Throughout the video, they show the aftermath of Shepherd's choice including still shots of who died. At the very end of the new videos, they show the memorial wall inside the Normady with all surviving crew (from ME3) looking at it. I think the only one that changes is EDI depending on your choice. On all three endings, it shows Anderson's name and then someone (it was the lover for me) places Shepherd's name just above Anderson's. Credits start rolling except:
-Synthetic: lover consuls EDI who is now "alive."
-Destroy: the video of what is presumably Shepherd in N7 armor inhales (sames as pre-DLC; seeing it based on readiness).

All three scroll credits then show the same video with gramps and the child as it did without DLC. You can now hit escape and skip the credits video (takes two attempts) and still see the gramps & child ending.

They also added a fourth possible ending: shoot Catalyst. He says "so be it" then it cuts to a video of Liara as a VI, warning future races about the Reapers (aka, mission failed). Credits scroll, but I didn't watch the end so I don't know if the gramps and child video shows on this one. I suspect it doesn't.

Edit: Wikipedia says that the ending video of the fourth option (kill/refuse Catalyst) says Liara's beacons allow the next cycle to defeat the Reapers.


Opinion: The fact they kept the readiness video continues to suggest to me that destroy is the solution the devs most want you to take; however, the synthesize solution is powerful as well because of EDI. Synthesize is far less repulsive to me than it was without DLC.

For those that have beat the game and interested in these DLC

The autosave the game creates after beating it (before launching the assault on the Cerberus base) is sufficient to launch the Leviathon DLC, then go into the final mission which leads to the Extended Cut content. There's no reason to replay the whole game if you adequately remember what happened throughout the game.

In conclusion, you must play the Leviathon and Extended Cut DLCs to see the intending ending. Without the DLCs, the ending is a bunch of gobbly gook.


At the very end of all endings, a pop up comes up from "The Mass Effect Team" which suggests more titles in the "Mass Effect universe" are to come. I tend to believe them because the next title is often started before the last comes out. This might be why EA and Bioware went into full damage-control mode with the uproar over the ending--they got an investment to protect.

If there is a continuation of Mass Effect, I suspect they'll wipe the slate clean, pick one of the endings, add new conflict, and go from there. They might or they might not have characters return (the most likely candidate is Liara because no matter what, she is non-optional, can't die, and is in every game).


Edit: A future Mass Effect game could make Aria T'Lok playable with the objective to retake Omega from Cerberus as was was suggested in the Invasion comic.

[techtard]

Leviathan wasn't that good. In fact it was a lame attempt to retroactively validate the terrible ending to the game.
If they had spent the time, effort and manpower to rewrite the ending sequence properly instead of doing the EC DLC + Leviathan, then ME3 might have ended on a high note.

Retaking Omega with Aria is supposedly going to be DLC for ME3.

[FordGT90Concept]

I think it was the other way around. Leviathan was started before the game launched and the reason why they couldn't vastly change the ending (they'd be throwing away the money they already invested into it).

[newconroer]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I just finished the Leviathan DLC and the official ending finally makes sense. I won't spoil it but it is definitely worth playing.

Shame on Bioware. If Leviathan was included in the game instead of a DLC, the whole ending-sucks fiasco wouldn't have happened. Well, it probably would have (3-color bursts aren't very exciting) but it wouldn't have created the mass outcry.

One can only hope EA learned their lesson on moving major plot elements to DLCs. Everyone else in the industry should take heed too.

Strangely..I noticed Leviathan was mentioned in passing before the DLC was released. After getting the DLC and playing it, it was even more enjoyable.

Although I did witness the original non extend ending with a very low score, I wasn't phased either way - knowing the game/series was ending anyways.

However, glad I waited so many months to finally hunker down and play the game properly. Between Extended, Leviathan and some reading online, I got the most out of the game.

Oddly found myself saving the save file... habit I guess : )

[trickson]

Man this game is really cool looking. A bit slow and a bit long winded. But it looks great. I just got the game today from my son. I like it Nothing really great just okay.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by newconroer

Strangely..I noticed Leviathan was mentioned in passing before the DLC was released. After getting the DLC and playing it, it was even more enjoyable.

Although I did witness the original non extend ending with a very low score, I wasn't phased either way - knowing the game/series was ending anyways.

However, glad I waited so many months to finally hunker down and play the game properly. Between Extended, Leviathan and some reading online, I got the most out of the game.

Oddly found myself saving the save file... habit I guess : )

EA has already been talking about Mass Effect 4 like it was in the works. Mass Effect 3 was supposedly the end of Shepherd's saga but they said there would be more games in the same universe.