Borderlands 2 PhysX video

[Fluffmeister]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

and again you miss MY point

Borderlands 2 with GPU PhysX off looks worse then most titles today also using CPU based physics

Borderlands 2 with GPU PhysX on looks roughly eqivalent to what was seen in UE3 map pack for the PPU and not much better.

To be fair I wasn't addressing your point, just the perceived evils of nVidia.

As for your point, I haven't played Borderlands 2 yet so I can't comment.

[Recus]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

true enough

but how many of those games use PhysX in a way thats fundamentally better than Havok etc?

Havok is one option many developers also use custom physics implementations Dice and Battlefield come to mind instantly

i could care less about software side

yes Havok has 200-300 games
yes PhysX has 300-400 games

Havok GPU accellerated 0
PhysX GPU accellerated 28

Havok GPU accellerated that the physics makes a difference 0
PhsyX GPU accellerated that the physics makes a difference 5

and again thats debatable as more than a few of the high class games that really make PhysX look appealing much of it can be done CPU side again Mafia 2 is a prime example some of the best Physics extras ive seen introduced via PhysX and 80-90% can be done CPU side.

my point is simple that most of the awesomeness PhysX brings to the table can indeed be done on the CPU and NVIDIA;s own software showed that in Mafia 2 which looks better than most PhysX titles in terms of whats going on.

Also dont put fucking words in my mouth newtekie i never said it wasnt popular. It is and for a reason doesnt change the fact GPU accellerated PhysX is still a damn gimmick and litterally is only amazing on a few titles that can be counted on a persons hands over the course of 6 god damn years 6 years for 28 titles again 11 of which used it decently well, but only 5 were amazing, and of the 5 well only a couple actually needed the GPU for it.

as for you FLumeister again how many PhysX games are amazing compared to Havok or other custom solutions by developers again i pointed out only 28 titles that use the extra features of them most are not amazing not even close its rather laughable. I want better Physics in my games not gimmick bullshit. lol

Don't forget hall of Havok titles are only for consoles.

[crazyeyesreaper]

Originally Posted by Fluffmeister

To be fair I wasn't addressing your point, just the perceived evils of nVidia.

As for your point, I haven't played Borderlands 2 yet so I can't comment.

Originally Posted by Recus

Don't forget hall of Havok titles are only for consoles.

Yea anyway no hard feelings it been fun, trolling PhysX threads and discussing its relevance never really gets old

as for Recus not quiet Havok is still extremely popular

PC wise lol altho i get what your saying it tends to be more console focused these days with PC titles tending to use more and more custom setups

but more up to date titles off the top of my head
Kingdoms Of Amalur Reckoning
Binary Domain
Saints Row The Third
Battlefield 3
The Witcher 2
Portal 2
StarCraft II
Stronghold 3
LA Noire

those are the most recent ones but more and more companies are making their own custom Physics engines

Blizzard comes to mind with Diablo III they started with Havok but moved to a custom engine.

[Fluffmeister]

It's all cool fella, You make your purchase like you make your bed, then you lie in it and enjoy Borderlands 2 with the eye candy on.

[crazyeyesreaper]

yea got the 7970 as i didnt want to wait on NVIDIA and the 3GB frame buffer was neccesary for 3D modeling work i do, but NVIDIA is still better supported in that regard just could wait any longer the 6670 i had as a back up was SOOOO SLOW lol. That and the GeForce cards are seriously crippled in some regards... wish nvidia would launch GK110 already damn it then i could at least have top tier performance AND get the proper vram amount and floating point etc performance. but Oh well it will come eventually then ill switch. But most for 3D apps not games. If NVIDIA would just push out PhysX across the board GPU wise to AMD make it agnostic via open CL something we could see a very nice increase in graphical fidelity through better Physics in general sadly will never happen. Mostly im just frustrated that the tech is here its possible but its going nowhere fast.

That said I wont be buying Borderlands 2 not my kind of game really well maybe it is i didnt care much for the first one but thats do to broken mechanics weapons etc and the feel of it just felt awkward for the tasks quests whatever.

[Recus]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

Yea anyway no hard feelings it been fun, trolling PhysX threads and discussing its relevance never really gets old

as for Recus not quiet Havok is still extremely popular

PC wise lol altho i get what your saying it tends to be more console focused these days with PC titles tending to use more and more custom setups

but more up to date titles off the top of my head
Kingdoms Of Amalur Reckoning
Binary Domain
Saints Row The Third
Battlefield 3
The Witcher 2
Portal 2
StarCraft II
Stronghold 3
LA Noire

those are the most recent ones but more and more companies are making their own custom Physics engines

Blizzard comes to mind with Diablo III they started with Havok but moved to a custom engine.

But Havok games can't swank richer stuff unlike GPU accelerated Physx. Most of them has same physics, ragdoll...

[crazyeyesreaper]

yea and thats about all Software PhysX is your late the thread and the argument im done here

in software mode almost all Physics engines accomplish the same thing there isnt much of a different between PhysX or Havok only time you see a huge difference is GPU wise on PC and again 28 games of which 5 were pretty damn amazing as i said earlier. Granted doesnt have to be that way open CL from NVIDIA would open the way to far more amazing things on PC but just wont happen.

Time to eat friggin starving thinking BBQ bacon royal cheese burger with onion rings mmmmmm

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

The 8800GTS 320/640 definitely have enough power to do the PhysX calculations if they are used as a dedicated card. Though I would go with at least a G92 based card simply because the G80 cards use way too much power, even just sitting idle, to warrant leaving in a system for a dedicated card. Granted, if you have any halfway decent modern nVidia card, having a dedicated card is a total waste anyway.

bear in mind its a ATI Graphics Engine with a Nvidia Physics Engine, is the configuration i was getting at less the newer lower model boards can handle physics, Example a GF 550

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

Smoke, Debris Cloth etc all done in Mafia II on the CPU

No they weren't, when left to the CPU alone the smoke and debris was next to none existant, and there were no cloth effect. The jackets people wore were completely rigid when hardware accelerated PhysX was off, their legs would go right through them when they walked, they flowed naturally when hardware accelerated PhysX was turned on.

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

PhysX is better, hands down in terms of support

but that doesnt change the fact that Borderlands 2 WITHOUT physX is bs, they could have done more with it and you damn well know it, it was purposefully kept bare minimum to make GPU PhysX look better and that is where i have a problem. It makes hte base game worse on purpose to sell more hardware via Gearbox getting a paycheck from Nvidia its rather sad really im not saying i EXPECT CPU PhysX to be as good as GPU PhysX but it goes without saying in this situation Software side was purposefully held back by Gearbox to get a check from Nvidia. Thus you end up with a base game that is worse than it could have been, in favor of a few extra GPU sales.

Many games today offer amazing physics on the CPU that look just about as good as what im seeing Borderlands 2 put out on the GPU and thats just depressing.

essentially the main problem i have is PhysX could be great but purposefully holding back software in favor of GPU for no real reason is just terrible for users but then most users will buy it on console and thus all of this is irrelevent to the bottom line anyway.

Maybe in 10 years when consoles dont suck so hard and properly do acelerated Physics we might finally move forward to something better.

No no no, as I've already said. Show me a game with interactive cloth physics running on the CPU. Show me a game with large amounts of volumetric debris running on the CPU. Show me a game with large amounts of volumetric smoke running on the CPU.

They aren't purposefully holding back software PhysX, that is just what it is capable of when running on the CPU, that is what every engine is capable of when running on the CPU.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

im not saying GPU physics sucks i do indeed want it, what i dont want s games fucking crippled on purpose to make it look better for marketing.

n

This!

Only less angry.

Originally Posted by newtekie1

No they weren't, when left to the CPU alone the smoke and debris was next to none existant, and there were no cloth effect. The jackets people wore were completely rigid when hardware accelerated PhysX was off, their legs would go right through them when they walked, they flowed naturally when hardware accelerated PhysX was turned on.

You could change a few config files and get it all running on the cpu.

On my old 1055t at 3.6 I could handle medium phsyx.

[crazyeyesreaper]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

No they weren't, when left to the CPU alone the smoke and debris was next to none existant, and there were no cloth effect. The jackets people wore were completely rigid when hardware accelerated PhysX was off, their legs would go right through them when they walked, they flowed naturally when hardware accelerated PhysX was turned on.



No no no, as I've already said. Show me a game with interactive cloth physics running on the CPU. Show me a game with large amounts of volumetric debris running on the CPU. Show me a game with large amounts of volumetric smoke running on the CPU.

They aren't purposefully holding back software PhysX, that is just what it is capable of when running on the CPU, that is what every engine is capable of when running on the CPU.

okay so whats this then?
http://physxinfo.com/news/3628/mafia...x-performance/

again it can be done CPU side and still looks better than Borderlands 2 in that regard i averager about 40-50 fps with PhysX on medium with NPC cloth off aka Vito and a few key NPCs i leave it on along with all other effects. and thats using the benchmark real time in game High can be used as thats what i completed the game on.

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

Video is marked Private and i can't see it

The video is fine, you need to buy a special card from Nvidia to watch it.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by crazyeyesreaper

okay so whats this then?
http://physxinfo.com/news/3628/mafia...x-performance/

again it can be done CPU side and still looks better than Borderlands 2 in that regard i averager about 40-50 fps with PhysX on medium with NPC cloth off aka Vito and a few key NPCs i leave it on along with all other effects. and thats using the benchmark real time in game High can be used as thats what i completed the game on.

Read the sources from the article again, without a dedicated card the cloth is done on the CPU, and the performance is absolutely horrible, hence the entire article you linked to is about minimizing the cloth effects to improve performance. With a dedicated card the cloth is rendered on the GPU and the performance issues go away. Why the developers of the game chose to do this, I don't know, since a single GPU is powerful enough to render the cloth.

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Read the sources from the article again, without a dedicated card the cloth is done on the CPU, and the performance is absolutely horrible, hence the entire article you linked to is about minimizing the cloth effects to improve performance. With a dedicated card the cloth is rendered on the GPU and the performance issues go away. Why the developers of the game chose to do this, I don't know, since a single GPU is powerful enough to render the cloth.

They done it to cripple CPU performance

Simply by adding a draw distance or similar solution to simulations would of sorted these problems, people that you couldn't even see properly would still have simulated clothing lol

[BumbleBee]

looks like Borderlands 2 will be bundled with 660 Ti

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/16/bo...dias-cheapest/'

game also supports 3D Vision and Surround.

also a promotion

http://www.geforce.com/landing-page/free-borderlands-2

clearly a nVidia game. i'm sure it helps keep development cost down.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

They done it to cripple CPU performance

Simply by adding a draw distance or similar solution to simulations would of sorted these problems, people that you couldn't even see properly would still have simulated clothing lol

I think that is part of the Low/Med/High PhysX settings. The lower the setting, the less people have realistic cloth.

[Am*]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE...so I expect this is going to be a stuttering-fest just like Arkham City on anything above the "PhysX off" setting, unless you buy Nshittia's top of the range single card or add 150W+ to your power consumption with a last gen card for PhysX? To see some debris and cloth effects ...

Probably going to avoid this game until the Steam sales hit at 80% off (or if I get it free). Not worth the hassle now with this bullshit.

[Recus]

Originally Posted by Am*

FOR FUCK'S SAKE...so I expect this is going to be a stuttering-fest just like Arkham City on anything above the "PhysX off" setting, unless you buy Nshittia's top of the range single card or add 150W+ to your power consumption with a last gen card for PhysX? To see some debris and cloth effects ...

Probably going to avoid this game until the Steam sales hit at 80% off (or if I get it free). Not worth the hassle now with this bullshit.

Here comes raped kid.

[Am*]

Originally Posted by Recus

Here comes raped kid. http://i56.tinypic.com/2e1sp3m.gif

And there's the retarded troll kid...

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

I think it's a shame when game developers do this.

Originally Posted by Darkleoco

Indeed, I don't see any reason for Physx to be locked to Nvidia cards it is not some all powerful way to create realistic physics that could not be done on AMD cards it simply comes down to money and Nvidia has alot more to play with than AMD :/

Guys, why not just pick up an older 8xxx/9xxx/2xx/4xx/5xx series card and use the hacked driver?
I've been using a GTS250(a bit overkill but I got it for a great price) for a long time now for this exact reason. When i played through Mirror's edge the first time, it didn't really leave a lasting impression. Just for kicks I replayed through it after getting the 250 and was floored. Since then I've tried many titles(as many as I can find) with PhysX off, on software mode, and on Hardware mode. Metro 2033, Borderlands, both Batman: Arkham games, Sacred 2, and UT3. All of them have significantly more eye-candy when PhysX is enabled, and although at first I thought it was just to look good, after playing with it enabled then disabling it again, I just can't go back to not using it. It almost adds another level of immersion into the experience, and I consistently found myself enjoying the game more with PhysX enabled.

I do agree it's BS that the Nvidiots keep PhysX locked down to their own hardware, but there is a simple workaround if you're willing to put the effort in, and it doesn't take a powerful dedicated card to run PhysX with great results. Some of the cards on the list can be had for under $40, even less if buying second-hand. An 8600 or 9600 card is more than enough to run PhysX in all it's glory.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Am*

FOR FUCK'S SAKE...so I expect this is going to be a stuttering-fest just like Arkham City on anything above the "PhysX off" setting, unless you buy Nshittia's top of the range single card or add 150W+ to your power consumption with a last gen card for PhysX? To see some debris and cloth effects ...

Probably going to avoid this game until the Steam sales hit at 80% off (or if I get it free). Not worth the hassle now with this bullshit.

So the effects aren't worth the performance penalty, but it is unthinkable to just turn them off? That makes a lot of sense.

[Recus]

Originally Posted by BumbleBee

looks like Borderlands 2 will be bundled with 660 Ti

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/16/bo...dias-cheapest/'

game also supports 3D Vision and Surround.

also a promotion

http://www.geforce.com/landing-page/free-borderlands-2

clearly a nVidia game. i'm sure it helps keep development cost down.

http://www.compusa.com/applications/...47&CatId=7387#

Clearly a AMD games.

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by Recus

http://www.compusa.com/applications/...47&CatId=7387#

Clearly a AMD games.

Except for Sonic, yes. Those are all "AMD: Gaming Evolved" badged games.