to upgrade or not...

[Theoddis]

my current system is
Intel Core i5-3570 Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) Quad Core 6000K
Coolermaster Hyper 212,
16gb corsair vengance 1600mhz
Gigabyte GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 Z68, Onboard Video, DVI & HDMI, SLI & X-Fire, SATA3, USB 3.0, 1000.0 GB Western Digital Blue 7200RPM SATA 3 6.0Gb/s 32m cache
2x EVGA GTX 460 ver.1 (256 bit) 1 Gb SLI
Cooler Master HAF X
and now for my question... would it be worth it to go with a single GTX 680? im not above buying a new card but would rather not spend a bunch of money on a card that isn't going to give me much of an upgrade. I also kinda wanna hold off and see what the 700 series has in store but if i do go with a 680 i can always drop another in later along with a different MoBo (z77 most likely leaning tward asus or asrock) any feedback would be greatly appreciated

[Frag Maniac]

Well the only benches I've seen both tested on was Battleforge, Metro 2033 and Clear Sky/Pripyat are similar, so I'll count those too. The 680 wins on Battleforge and CS/Pripyat, but loses on Metro.

Since this is posted in the Nvidia board I'll assume you're reluctant to go AMD, but a 7970 would give you more bang for buck than a 680. I just picked one up for only $330.

I was an avid Nvidia fanatic and had always preferred their drivers, until recently. It seems since BF3 their drivers have been slipping. I also just tried a 660 Ti and had to return it because it was having HDCP detection problems with my Panasonic TV and wouldn't even boot up on DVI using that display. I also got BSOD when switching from TV to PC and it never showed it's Nvidia HD Audio device as plugged in. At least with AMD you can try using their DVI to HDMI adapter that enables audio if for some reason HDMI audio doesn't work, which seems to be hit and miss on both Nvidia and AMD.

[cdawall]

If you get a GTX 680 get the 4GB model. Do not get the 2GB model it is heavily VRAM limited in high resolution.

[jgunning]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Well the only benches I've seen both tested on was Battleforge, Metro 2033 and Clear Sky/Pripyat are similar, so I'll count those too. The 680 wins on Battleforge and CS/Pripyat, but loses on Metro.

Since this is posted in the Nvidia board I'll assume you're reluctant to go AMD, but a 7970 would give you more bang for buck than a 680. I just picked one up for only $330.

I was an avid Nvidia fanatic and had always preferred their drivers, until recently. It seems since BF3 their drivers have been slipping. I also just tried a 660 Ti and had to return it because it was having HDCP detection problems with my Panasonic TV and wouldn't even boot up on DVI using that display. I also got BSOD when switching from TV to PC and it never showed it's Nvidia HD Audio device as plugged in. At least with AMD you can try using their DVI to HDMI adapter that enables audio if for some reason HDMI audio doesn't work, which seems to be hit and miss on both Nvidia and AMD.

Have to agree with frag maniac, the 7970 would give you more bang for your buck, unless you just want to stick with nvidia.they are very cheap though!

But if you wanted to stay with nvidia, i would advise the 680 over the cf setup you are running now

[Theoddis]

yea I dont really have brand loyalty to nvidia although I do really like EVGA they hooked me up when I got a new 460 to SLI and it turned out my old 460 was a ver 1 and the new was a ver 2 and not able to SLI the replaced my ver 2 for a ver 1 at no cost to me. that being said I will check out the 7970 I do have a question tho will it be a significant upgrade to the 2 460s in SLI? and since I haven't used AMD can you recommend a good manufacturer? I may pick up 2 and give crossfire a try

[Novulux]

Originally Posted by Theoddis

yea I dont really have brand loyalty to nvidia although I do really like EVGA they hooked me up when I got a new 460 to SLI and it turned out my old 460 was a ver 1 and the new was a ver 2 and not able to SLI the replaced my ver 2 for a ver 1 at no cost to me. that being said I will check out the 7970 I do have a question tho will it be a significant upgrade to the 2 460s in SLI? and since I haven't used AMD can you recommend a good manufacturer? I may pick up 2 and give crossfire a try

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_58...es/perfrel.gif
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeF...es/perfrel.gif

According to these charts, the GTX 460 SLI is roughly equivalent to a GTX 580, although there have been considerable driver updates since these reviews and newer games.
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Cataly...es/perfrel.gif
As you can see, with the recent driver update, even the stock HD 7970 is at least a sidegrade in performance while also providing a better single GPU experience, less power usage, less heat, and probably less noise. Get a GHz edition or overclock/flash a regular edition card, and you have more of an upgrade there with a possibility for a decent boost through crossfire.

[james888]

Avoid the same brands you would avoid if you were going nvidea.

[Novulux]

Regarding brand recommendations, I have only dealt with four different companies in relation to customer service/RMA, so I will simply abstain from interjecting any bias.
As for performance, it really is on a product by product basis as each company has multiple models. I would recommend looking up reviews for certain cards you see and basing your decisions off of that
Good Luck.

[raghu78]

OP a HD 7950 boost represents the best price performance. even at stock speeds this card will be faster than GTX 460 SLI. overclocked it will crush the GTX 460 SLI. remember the HD 7950 is 3 - 6% slower than HD 7970 at the same clocks.

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphi...clocks/?page=3

the HD 7950 boost runs at 925 mhz boost speeds. matches GTX 670 at stock. runs at a higher stock voltage of 1.25v. easily overclocks to 1.1 Ghz at stock voltage and can go even higher with voltage tweaking.

http://www.techspot.com/review/603-b...ds/page12.html

" the GeForce GTX 670 is 12% faster than the Radeon HD 7950 and just 2% faster than the 7950 Boost. However the GTX 670 is 27% more expensive than both cards, so whichever way you slice it the Radeon HD 7950 Boost is the better proposition and things just get worse for the GTX 670 as the resolution is increased."

from the review you can see the HD 7950 boost matches GTX 670. Also HD 7970 Ghz (1.05 Ghz) is on average 7% faster at 1080p and 11% faster at 1600p than a GTX 680. HD 7950(1.1 Ghz) matches HD 7970 Ghz.You can clearly see a HD 7970 Ghz is 2x the GTX 560 Ti in most games.

GTX 560 Ti is 30 - 35% faster than a GTX 460.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/..._card_review/4

here is another review of the high end cards with the latest drivers

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/...ison_roundup/3

this review shows a even bigger difference. HD 7970 Ghz is 10 - 20% faster than GTX 680 at 1080p and 1600p. it would require a GTX 680 at 1.25+ Ghz to catch up with a HD 7950(1.1 Ghz).

you can sell your GTX 460 for 100 bucks each. throw in another 100 bucks and get the HD 7950 boost. plus you get 3 very good games for free. go for the sapphire hd 7950 boost. sapphire is one of the best AMD partners.

SAPPHIRE 100352-2L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR...

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by raghu78

remember the HD 7950 is 3 - 6% slower than HD 7970 at the same clocks.[/url]

Each one stock the difference is quite a bit more than that, and if you OC a 7950 to 7970 level, it's only just caught up and at or near it's ceiling (depending on model), while the 7970 hasn't even been OCed yet. So let's be clear, the REAL difference is an apples to apples ref comparison, as shown here. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/27.html
As you can see the actual difference is 14% @ 1920x1200.

On performance per dollar, at that time the 7950 only beat the 7970 by 7% bang for buck wise. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/29.html

Fast forward to today though, and with prices like $330 on a 7970 that we're frequently seeing, there's really no longer a better bang for buck value on the 7950 vs the 7970. In fact at the time I made my 7970 purchase decision a few days ago, the cheapest 7950 and 7970 models were both Sapphires, and only 14% difference in price, the exact same as the performance difference. So it was a no-brainer for me, because usually you pay at least some premium for the higher performance, vs a 1:1 ratio.

[raghu78]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Each one stock the difference is quite a bit more than that, and if you OC a 7950 to 7970 level, it's only just caught up and at or near it's ceiling (depending on model), while the 7970 hasn't even been OCed yet. So let's be clear, the REAL difference is an apples to apples ref comparison, as shown here. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/27.html
As you can see the actual difference is 14% @ 1920x1200.

On performance per dollar, at that time the 7950 only beat the 7970 by 7% bang for buck wise. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/29.html

Fast forward to today though, and with prices like $330 on a 7970 that we're frequently seeing, there's really no longer a better bang for buck value on the 7950 vs the 7970. In fact at the time I made my 7970 purchase decision a few days ago, the cheapest 7950 and 7970 models were both Sapphires, and only 14% difference in price, the exact same as the performance difference. So it was a no-brainer for me, because usually you pay at least some premium for the higher performance, vs a 1:1 ratio.

you did not read my post at all. I mentioned a HD 7950 boost card which boosts upto 925 mhz. this card is faster than the HD 7950 at 800 Mhz which you are talking about. if you max out power option to +20% this card will run at 925 mhz consistently without any clock throttling so even without increasing clocks this card is 3 - 6% slower than HD 7970(925 Mhz) .

I linked the sapphire hd 7950 boost at newegg. these cards with stock voltage of 1.25v are easily hitting 1.1 - 1.15 Ghz at stock voltage. you can see the user reviews are overwhelmingly positive with many running at 1.1 Ghz at stock voltage. At those speeds it matches HD 7970 Ghz.

You can go even further with voltage overclocking. But I agree that overclocking to a certain clockspeed is not guaranteed on any HD 7950 or HD 7970. whats guaranteed is the out of the box speeds. But the HD 7950 boost is unbeatable for price perf even today.

[Frag Maniac]

Actually I did read it, which is specifically why I mentioned the clock speeds and that it's better to compare apples to apples (eg two ref cards). You can talk all you want about boost versions and this and that, but the evolution of the 7970 has brought the same tech to it as well.

I maintain, the ACTUAL difference between the 7950 and the 7970 is 14%, provided they both have the same level of tech, which is the only real fair way to compare them. Otherwise it just makes it all the more obvious the 7950 needs some extra juice to catch up to the 7970, but given the same tech, the 7970 is OCed it would still pull ahead of it by that same margin.

Like I said, when the base versions of each are only 14% difference in price, the same as the performance difference of two like versions, then it's a no-brainer to buy the 7970. And btw, the card I bought IS an OC version with boost. Those are commonly had at low prices anymore, it's no big deal really.

[Tonim89]

I'm 7970 owner and i can garantee, that even in stock speeds, i can destroy any GTX 460 SLI at high OC levels in almost any game/benchmark, and after the release of CCC 12.11 the gaps are a lot bigger.

Tahiti have grown up a lot, and I risk to say that, from 12.11 for now, even a 7970 non-GHz Edition is stronger than GTX 680, and 7950 non-boost matches GTX 670.

[raghu78]

Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

I maintain, the ACTUAL difference between the 7950 and the 7970 is 14%, provided they both have the same level of tech, which is the only real fair way to compare them. Otherwise it just makes it all the more obvious the 7950 needs some extra juice to catch up the the 7970, and then when the 7970 is OCed it would still pull ahead of it by that same margin.

Like I said, when the base versions of each are only 14% difference in price, the same as the performance difference of two like versions, then it's a no-brainer to buy the 7970. And btw, the card I bought IS an OC version with boost. Those are commonly had at low prices anymore, it's no big deal really.

at the same clocks the HD 7950 is 3 - 6% slower. this is a fact proven by the hexus article which compares HD 7970 and HD 7950 at same clocks. there are many users who have posted benchmarks on overclock.net with their voltage overclocked HD 7950s. In fact there are many HD 7950 users who run faster than HD 7970 because their chip overclocks better than others. so its completely based on the maximum stable overclock speeds. HD 7950 needs 50 Mhz of extra clock speed to catch up to HD 7970. Users with 1250+ Mhz HD 7950 will actually run faster than 1200 Mhz HD 7970.

[Theoddis]

Originally Posted by Tonim89

I'm 7970 owner and i can garantee, that even in stock speeds, i can destroy any GTX 460 SLI at high OC levels in almost any game/benchmark, and after the release of CCC 12.11 the gaps are a lot bigger.

Tahiti have grown up a lot, and I risk to say that, from 12.11 for now, even a 7970 non-GHz Edition is stronger than GTX 680, and 7950 non-boost matches GTX 670.

calm down chief I didn't come here to flex e-peens I came for GPU info and everything i have read on the 7970 is that it is a little better than 460s in sli in some areas so more like a side grade which is fine I will probably just get 2 and Xfire em and that will be that destruction you speak of.
Now back to real GPU talk. Ok Im sold on the 7970 ill give it a whirl any manufacturers that stand out that i can look into? this is one that has caught my eye so far
SAPPHIRE 100351SR Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-bit GDDR5...

[raghu78]

Originally Posted by Tonim89

I'm 7970 owner and i can garantee, that even in stock speeds, i can destroy any GTX 460 SLI at high OC levels in almost any game/benchmark, and after the release of CCC 12.11 the gaps are a lot bigger.

Tahiti have grown up a lot, and I risk to say that, from 12.11 for now, even a 7970 non-GHz Edition is stronger than GTX 680, and 7950 non-boost matches GTX 670.

HD 7970 Ghz > GTX 680 and HD 7950 boost = GTX 670. but if you go for voltage overclocking a HD 7900 card at 1.2 Ghz is faster than GTX 680 / GTX 670 at 1.35 Ghz.

[Novulux]

Originally Posted by Theoddis

calm down chief I didn't come here to flex e-peens I came for GPU info and everything i have read on the 7970 is that it is a little better than 460s in sli in some areas so more like a side grade which is fine I will probably just get 2 and Xfire em and that will be that destruction you speak of.
Now back to real GPU talk. Ok Im sold on the 7970 ill give it a whirl any manufacturers that stand out that i can look into? this is one that has caught my eye so far
SAPPHIRE 100351SR Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-bit GDDR5...

This is a review of the same card, albeit a little outdated due to the newer drivers offering good performance increases:
http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?ca...&pagenumber=18

Besides that one, the card is generally well reviewed, but that was the only review that had the same color PCB as the one on Newegg (most likely due to being more recent)

[james888]

Originally Posted by Tonim89

Tahiti have grown up a lot, and I risk to say that, from 12.11 for now, even a 7970 non-GHz Edition is stronger than GTX 680, and 7950 non-boost matches GTX 670.

Here are some real comparisons to use without risking what you say.

Originally Posted by Theoddis

Now back to real GPU talk. Ok Im sold on the 7970 ill give it a whirl any manufacturers that stand out that i can look into? this is one that has caught my eye so far
SAPPHIRE 100351SR Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-bit GDDR5...

I have the non boost version of the saphire 7970 OC. Mine is a great card. The cooler keep it at 80c at 1200mhz, and around 65c at stock clocks. Saphire is a good brand.

[Frag Maniac]

Originally Posted by raghu78

at the same clocks the HD 7950 is 3 - 6% slower.

LOL, we all know you said that already at least 3 times. I merely clarified it's not an accurate way to compare the two. For anyone that doesn't already know, so this guy doesn't mislead you, a ref core speed on a 7950 is only 800MHz, and a ref core speed on a 7970 is 925MHz. So on like models you'd have to boost core speed roughly 16% on the 7950 just to match the clock speed of the 7970, and doing so eats into much of it's OC potential, while the 7970 has yet to be OCed at all.

That's all that need be said really. He thinks he can refute the trusted bench results of TPU, which says 14% difference when you compare similar type models, but he's really not proving that point at all. I'm addressing the community that needs help raghu, because clearly you aren't listening to such reasoning, as is the case with most whom always argue the 7950 is still a better value. No, it isn't anymore, not with the current prices.

[Theoddis]

Originally Posted by james888

I have the non boost version of the saphire 7970 OC. Mine is a great card. The cooler keep it at 80c at 1200mhz, and around 65c at stock clocks. Saphire is a good brand.

yea i think im gonna run with the one I picked out, I have never had any problems with noise or heat even running the dual 460s (40-45c stock clocks) I keep my room cool and my case is a beast (CM HAF X i highly recommend it) it may get up to 60c under load no WC just straight air
I appreciate every ones feedback it made my decision much easier
one last question is the extra bill for the ghz worth it?

[james888]

Why get the ghz edition when you are going to overclock it yourself.