Watercooling loop order

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 4, 2009

Ok im not too sure, i set up my first watercooling setup the other day and went with my instinct on the order however ive heard this second setup works better.

The kit i used is:

-Black Ice 240cm rad
-Swiftech Apogee GT
-XSPC 12v 10w pump/res (modded to 18w by tigger)
-Tygun Tubing and Jubilee clamps

My order is:

PUMP/RES > CPU BLOCK > DOUBLE RAD

What I heard was:

PUMP/RES > DOUBLE RAD > CPU BLOCK

Atm my temps are:

IDLE

LOAD

These temps good or bad?

Lastly what i want to ask is, ive got a spare single rad to slot in the loop somewhere for when i get a good gpu block for my 4870 non reference 1gb. What would the ideal loop setup be for this?

erocker · Aug 4, 2009

D3M0N-G4M3R said:
Ok im not too sure, i set up my first watercooling setup the other day and went with my instinct on the order however ive heard this second setup works better.

The kit i used is:

-Black Ice 240cm rad
-Swiftech Apogee GT
-XSPC 12v 10w pump/res (modded to 18w by tigger)
-Tygun Tubing and Jubilee clamps

My order is:

PUMP/RES > CPU BLOCK > DOUBLE RAD

What I heard was:

PUMP/RES > DOUBLE RAD > CPU BLOCK

Atm my temps are:

IDLE
http://img.techpowerup.org/090731/watercooled temps.jpg

LOAD
http://img.techpowerup.org/090731/watercooled temps LOAD.jpg

These temps good or bad?

Lastly what i want to ask is, ive got a spare single rad to slot in the loop somewhere for when i get a good gpu block for my 4870 non reference 1gb. What would the ideal loop setup be for this?

Best order is: Pump-->Rad-->CPU Block-->Res.-->Pump

If you are adding another rad + gpu into the loop: Pump-->Rad-->Rad-->CPU Block-->GPU Block-->Res.-->Pump

Temps look good.

DanishDevil · Aug 4, 2009

Is that because the pump heats the water up a bit?

erocker · Aug 4, 2009

DanishDevil said:
Is that because the pump heats the water up a bit?

It really does. I was leak testing without running fans through my radiator and I couldn't believe how warm things were getting.

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 4, 2009

erocker said:
Best order is: Pump-->Rad-->CPU Block-->Res.-->Pump

If you are adding another rad + gpu into the loop: Pump-->Rad-->Rad-->CPU Block-->GPU Block-->Res.-->Pump

Temps look good.

Ah ill go with that then when i finally do it, you sure that both rads should be next to each other in the loop, wont the water be hot on its journey from cpu to gpu?

Icewind31 · Aug 4, 2009

Loop order doesn't matter as long as res is before pump, put it in the order that makes the most sense in terms of layout in your case.

Loop temps reach equilibrium over time. Only time you'll notice is when you first turn on the system and measure.

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 4, 2009

Ah i see, i think ill still go with erockers plan though and go res/pump rad, this pump does get rather warm so it might be better to dump off that heat and cool it completely through 2 rads.

erocker · Aug 4, 2009

Icewind31 said:
Loop order doesn't matter as long as res is before pump, put it in the order that makes the most sense in terms of layout in your case.

Loop temps reach equilibrium over time. Only time you'll notice is when you first turn on the system and measure.

Since the radiator cools the water, the water exiting the radiator will always be coolest. You do have a point though, it's most likely not much cooler to make a difference and I usually go with looks, organization of the loop before worrying about one or two degrees.

Sadasius · Aug 4, 2009

Icewind31 said:
Loop order doesn't matter as long as res is before pump, put it in the order that makes the most sense in terms of layout in your case.

Loop temps reach equilibrium over time. Only time you'll notice is when you first turn on the system and measure.

YES!! Someone who knows. Res before pump and the rest just use the shortest route possible with less tubing possible. Temps out of a rad are maybe .5 degrees at best and no it makes no difference on the rest of the performance. It will not lower your CPU temps any better then the rest of the water. It's a flow and equilibrium thing...

Binge · Aug 4, 2009

D3M0N-G4M3R said:
Ok im not too sure, i set up my first watercooling setup the other day and went with my instinct on the order however ive heard this second setup works better.

The kit i used is:

-Black Ice 240cm rad
-Swiftech Apogee GT
-XSPC 12v 10w pump/res (modded to 18w by tigger)
-Tygun Tubing and Jubilee clamps

My order is:

PUMP/RES > CPU BLOCK > DOUBLE RAD

What I heard was:

PUMP/RES > DOUBLE RAD > CPU BLOCK

Atm my temps are:

IDLE
http://img.techpowerup.org/090731/watercooled temps.jpg

LOAD
http://img.techpowerup.org/090731/watercooled temps LOAD.jpg

These temps good or bad?

Lastly what i want to ask is, ive got a spare single rad to slot in the loop somewhere for when i get a good gpu block for my 4870 non reference 1gb. What would the ideal loop setup be for this?

erocker said:
Best order is: Pump-->Rad-->CPU Block-->Res.-->Pump

If you are adding another rad + gpu into the loop: Pump-->Rad-->Rad-->CPU Block-->GPU Block-->Res.-->Pump

Temps look good.

it will matter if your put the rad before the cpu for about 20 minutes until your system reaches equalibrium. I learned that a few months ago, but what does matter is that your cpu block gets a lot of flow so you might see .5C temp differences between the two setups

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 5, 2009

Binge said:
it will matter if your put the rad before the cpu for about 20 minutes until your system reaches equalibrium. I learned that a few months ago, but what does matter is that your cpu block gets a lot of flow so you might see .5C temp differences between the two setups

5c less or more?

Binge · Aug 5, 2009

D3M0N-G4M3R said:
5c less or more?

.5C meaning 1/2 of 1C less OR more.

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 5, 2009

Oh lol haha that might not even be worth faffing with then lol

newtekie1 · Aug 5, 2009

It doesn't really matter, but the pump does put add a little heat to the system. Maybe enough to raise the temps 1°C, but is that 1°C worth the hassle of re-arranging your setup?

My Ideal loop is: Res--> Pump --> Big Rad --> CPU --> NB --> Small Rad --> Video Cards --> Res

Usually, I do a 2x120 Radiator hanging off the back of the case, then a smaller 1x120 inside the font of the case where the front fan would go normally. Obviously, this changes depending on what Radiators I actually use in the loop.

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 5, 2009

yeah i was thinking of that setup, my big rad then cpu then small rad then gfx card.

newtekie1 · Aug 5, 2009

And it is certainly not an equalibrium thing, temps do not "reach and equalibrium" in a water cooling loop.

The overall temperature of the fluid might rise, however, the whole loop will not be the same temperature. There will be hot and cold spots in the loop. Generally, hot spots being right after the blocks, and cold spots being right after the radiators.

However, you can only cool the fluid down so far. Once it reaches ambient temperature, it will not get any cooler. So, if you have a 2x120 radiator, and it is able to cool the fluid down to room temperature before the fluid exits the radiator, then putting a your 1x120 raditor right next to it in the loop is useless, and makes the 1x120 raditor completely wasted.

However, if you put the 1x120 radiator between the CPU and GPUs, then the heat from the CPU will be removed from the fluid before it gets to the GPUs. This will give you lower GPU temps. However, if the 2x120 radiator can't remove all the heat from the GPUs before the fluid gets through the radiator, this could lead to higher CPU temps also.

D3M0N-G4M3R · Aug 5, 2009

ah i understand, well ive got some ideas for the double rad anyways. im gonna have the fans pulling the air through rather than blowing air through, ive heard that works better, the way my case is modded too allows the rad, res/pump to have there own section that is always filled with cold air, hopefully this will keep the rad below room temp by quite a bit.

I have to agree with you on the equilibrium thing, i think that is nonsense too, ofcourse there will be hotspots.

Sadasius · Aug 5, 2009

newtekie1 said:
And it is certainly not an equilibrium thing, temps do not "reach and equilibrium" in a water cooling loop.

The overall temperature of the fluid might rise, however, the whole loop will not be the same temperature. There will be hot and cold spots in the loop. Generally, hot spots being right after the blocks, and cold spots being right after the radiators.

However, you can only cool the fluid down so far. Once it reaches ambient temperature, it will not get any cooler. So, if you have a 2x120 radiator, and it is able to cool the fluid down to room temperature before the fluid exits the radiator, then putting a your 1x120 raditor right next to it in the loop is useless, and makes the 1x120 raditor completely wasted.

However, if you put the 1x120 radiator between the CPU and GPUs, then the heat from the CPU will be removed from the fluid before it gets to the GPUs. This will give you lower GPU temps. However, if the 2x120 radiator can't remove all the heat from the GPUs before the fluid gets through the radiator, this could lead to higher CPU temps also.

What happened? You were doing so well until this post. The only time it is not an equilibrium thing is when you have the worst flow in the world. That way there is actually time to have these hot spots in the loop. But in real world builds it is not like that and I can prove it on my system as well as I have water temp probes after the blocks and also after my rads. Now I mentioned a .5 degree difference between the blocks and the exit of the rad but that is from a rather large loop....My loop which has 2 pumps, 2 rads, 3870X2 full face GPU bock, SB block, NB block, MOSFET blocks and my CPU block. If you look in the picture of my build you will see wires near my pumps. These temp probes are in place specifically for the purpose of this topic as I wanted to show some people first hand.

Binge · Aug 5, 2009

I can also prove with relative certainty that it does not matter the loop order unless there is a problem with flow, which I did address in my TERRIBLY WORDED post. Here are the points in bullet:

Pumps before the most restrictive block may have some effect on the equalibrium
Placing a part before or after the radiator has little bearing on the water temperature
Equalibrium is reached and is usually reached best when there are adiquate parts to suit the need.

Sadasius · Aug 5, 2009

Binge you know your stuff. Yeah I lost an argument with Vapor on XS awhile back about loop order in which I thought the highest pressure from the pump directly to the CPU would be best and he proved me wrong and that it actually did not matter if it was the rad before the CPU or direct from the pump. It's how everyone learns. It was funny too because I stuck to my guns till the end! :laugh:

newtekie1 · Aug 6, 2009

So the fluid leaving the Radiator is the same temp as the fluid entering the raditor? Then what is the point of the raditor? Oh...it is supposed to cool the fluid...but according to you it doesn't... :laugh:

Sorry, it doesn't work that way, the radiator cools the fluid as the fluid passes through it, the exception might be when running extremely low velocity fans or no fans at all, or if the radiator/s are overloaded. If you get to the point where you are getting an equalibrium, you have overloaded your loop.

Sadasius · Aug 6, 2009

newtekie1 said:
So the fluid leaving the Radiator is the same temp as the fluid entering the raditor? Then what is the point of the raditor? Oh...it is supposed to cool the fluid...but according to you it doesn't...

Sorry, it doesn't work that way, the radiator cools the fluid as the fluid passes through it, the exception might be when running extremely low velocity fans or no fans at all...

Don't think you grasped it yet......Water is a great conductor of heat. It picks up very quickly and can also get rid of it quickly in various manners and forms. When in a loop, the water is going relatively quick. It does not have to time to sit inside a rad or a block. It picks up heat and transfers it very quickly. Hence why the lack of a temp difference in a loop. It is only when you have very poor flow or circulation in your loop will you see hot spots and usually by then a hose will blow off or a res will crack. A rad basically cools the whole loop down at the same time because of the way water disperses heat so quickly plus it's flow. You are right it's just the 4th dimensional thinking that is lacking which is time. The fluid might pass through the rad 40 times before it drops a degree when your load goes down.

shevanel · Nov 8, 2009

I want to ask this..

Right now I have rad-res-pump-cpu-rad

my block is probably restrictive, an APOGEE GT, would it be best if I switched the two lines on the pump and cause the radiator to be before the CPU?

Binge · Nov 8, 2009

Shev your CPU isn't very restrictive at all and your loop order is simple and fine. It would do nothing to change the config of your loop.

shevanel · Nov 8, 2009

Thanks. I might pick up a triple rad though.. i'd like to do better than 50 at idle

Processor	Core2duo E8400 @ 4.00ghz / 1.29V
Motherboard	P5K Premium Black Pearl Edition
Cooling	Swiftech Apogee GT/ 240 black ice rad / XSPC ddc 18w pump / Accelero S1
Memory	4gb (2x2gb) Kingston Hyperx 1066
Video Card(s)	Powercolor 4870 1gb
Storage	Seagate barracuda s/ata 80gb + 300gb
Display(s)	20" HP w2007v LCD
Case	Lian Li PC-201b
Audio Device(s)	Creative Sound blaster Audigy 4
Power Supply	Coolermaster True Power m620 modular
Software	Windows vista ultimate sp2 64bit
Benchmark Scores	3dmark 06 - 15561

Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF x670e
Cooling	EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory	32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	Asus RTX 4090
Storage	WD m.2
Display(s)	LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case	Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s)	Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Headphone Amp.
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard	Tester84
Software	Windows 11

System Name	Big Devil
Processor	Intel Core i5-2500K
Motherboard	ECS P67H2-A2
Cooling	XSPC Rasa \| Black Ice GT Stealth 240 \| XSPC X2O 750 \| 2x ACF12PWM \| PrimoChill White 7/16"
Memory	2x4GB Corsair Vengeance LP Arctic White 1600MHz CL9
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 780 ACX SC
Storage	Intel 520 Series 180GB + WD 1TB Blue
Display(s)	HP ZR30W 30" 2650x1600 IPS
Case	Corsair 600T SE
Audio Device(s)	Xonar Essence STX \| Sennheisser PC350 "Hero" Modded \| Corsair SP2500
Power Supply	ABS SL 1050W (Enermax Revolution Rebadge)
Software	Windows 8.1 x64 Pro w/ Media Center
Benchmark Scores	Ducky Year of the Snake w/ Cherry MX Browns & Year of the Tiger PBT Keycaps \| Razer Deathadder Black

Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF x670e
Cooling	EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory	32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	Asus RTX 4090
Storage	WD m.2
Display(s)	LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case	Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s)	Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Headphone Amp.
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard	Tester84
Software	Windows 11

Processor	Core2duo E8400 @ 4.00ghz / 1.29V
Motherboard	P5K Premium Black Pearl Edition
Cooling	Swiftech Apogee GT/ 240 black ice rad / XSPC ddc 18w pump / Accelero S1
Memory	4gb (2x2gb) Kingston Hyperx 1066
Video Card(s)	Powercolor 4870 1gb
Storage	Seagate barracuda s/ata 80gb + 300gb
Display(s)	20" HP w2007v LCD
Case	Lian Li PC-201b
Audio Device(s)	Creative Sound blaster Audigy 4
Power Supply	Coolermaster True Power m620 modular
Software	Windows vista ultimate sp2 64bit
Benchmark Scores	3dmark 06 - 15561

Processor	Core i7-930
Motherboard	Asus P6T
Memory	2x2GB Corsair DDR3-1333
Video Card(s)	Asus HD4850-1GB
Storage	OCZ Summit 120GB
Display(s)	Dual Dell SP2208WFP 22in
Power Supply	Corsair 520HX

System Name	"White Ghost"
Processor	i7 970 watercooled
Motherboard	Rampage III Extreme all watercooled
Cooling	Custom Water Cooling. You have to see it. Too many parts to list here!
Memory	12GB Corsair Dominator GT's watercooled
Video Card(s)	HD 5850....watercooled!
Storage	Gskill Phoenix Pro 120gb and several 500gb and 1 tb hdd's.
Display(s)	Dual 24" Asus VW246H mounted to the wall
Case	CM Storm
Audio Device(s)	Sound Blaster Audigy
Power Supply	Ultra X3 1000
Software	Windows 7 64 Ultimate
Benchmark Scores	http://valid.canardpc.com/2551267

System Name	Molly
Processor	i5 3570K
Motherboard	Z77 ASRock
Cooling	CooliT Eco
Memory	2x4GB Mushkin Redline Ridgebacks
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte GTX 680
Case	Coolermaster CM690 II Advanced
Power Supply	Corsair HX-1000

Processor	Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard	AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling	Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory	32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s)	RTX 2070 Super
Storage	500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s)	Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case	Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s)	Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply	eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software	Windows 10 Pro x64

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