Gtx 275 Physx, need tips on poor physx performance

[shevanel]

Reiteration (sp) update !!!

batman AA demo would dip below 15-10 fps on physx heavy areas on a Gtx 275/e6600 @ 3ghz using 185.85, 190.38 or 190.62 with windows Vista 32 and 4gb ram

Ut3 maps all play flawlessley but ageia physx maps "torando" and "lighthouse" on same settings run at 10-15 fps..

updated physx drivers no help, tried various video drivers no help.

reinstalled vista 32 fresh, new drivers andit did no fix at all...

installed windows 7 32b and used same 190.38 drivers and settings and the batman aa physx area frame rates during the zaz scene have increased by nearly 300%

Will test UT3 physx maps soon...

[r9]

Your main card has enough power for both. And performance benefit from 8400GS is smaller than the effort of the computer to dedicate some work to 8400GS.

[newtekie1]

I've been told, but I don't know how true it is, that the GTX200 cards have a dedicated section on the GPU that does PhysX, it isn't like the older cards that have to sacrifice shaders to do PhysX. So you shouldn't need a dedicated card, and the dedicated section on the GTX275 core might be better than the 8400GS. And the 8400GS no longer meets the minimum requirements for the latest version of PhysX.

[DrPepper]

8400GS is slower than using your 275 for physx.

[shevanel]

Ok. I'll accept the fact that the 8400gs is too slow to achieve what I had hoped it would achieve.

I get 10 fps on my rig on the 2 physx addon maps from ageia.

Whenever papers fly or tiles break in batman : AA it goes from 40-55 frp to 7-12 fps

Is a GTX 275 already too weak to handle phsyx? Or is it a driver problem?

[DrPepper]

The 275 is more than enough to play the game and physx at the same time. Try it with the 8400GS then without and see what is better.

[newtekie1]

Seems like you have some other kind of problem. As even a single 9600GSO can handle the PhysX addon maps of UT3 with better framerates than that. Haven't tried Batman:AA yet, but I hope to soon.

[shevanel]

I'm a big fan of physx. Unlike most. I think it adds a sense of realism and it irks me that I have to disable phsyx to play a game using a gtx 275

[DrPepper]

The box recommends a 8800GTS 512 or 9800GTX for physx

[OnBoard]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I've been told, but I don't know how true it is, that the GTX200 cards have a dedicated section on the GPU that does PhysX, it isn't like the older cards that have to sacrifice shaders to do PhysX. So you shouldn't need a dedicated card, and the dedicated section on the GTX275 core might be better than the 8400GS. And the 8400GS no longer meets the minimum requirements for the latest version of PhysX.

That was just a rumor that someone came up on some forum and then it got copied everywhere. There is no physics portion in any card. Reason GT200 cards do so well in it because they have so much shaders to spare.

Like you said latest divers from NVIDIA finally tell some minimum requirements for PhysX and that is 32 shaders. 8400GS is way overpowered. My 8500GT already run Cryostasis slower than GTX 280 all alone.

Minimum for PhysX stuff would be 8600GT/9500GT with NVIDIA specs and tested working card (that I've seen benchmarks) that boosts framerate is 9600GT. Haven't tried Batman AA yet either, so can't comment on how taxing it is, but based on videos it isn't going to be less.

For the Batman demo, I'd guess it's newest drivers time, or waiting for next PhysX set, if there are bugs. Anyhow, it should work with GTX 275 alone just fine.

[shevanel]

I just installed the 190.62 set

release notes say "optimized for batman:aa"

going to see if I notice any changes

[shevanel]

when batman glides from the gargoyle and kicks zaz to the floor breaking the tiles it drops to 12 fps still while using the newest drivers..

Im swapping my e6600 for a q9450 this week, maybe that will offer a small boost since there will be vista and background services left for idle core? would be nice.

this game comes out in 15 days for Pc and I want to be able to enjoy it fully. sucks I might have to play with physx disabled or buy a new video card

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by OnBoard

That was just a rumor that someone came up on some forum and then it got copied everywhere. There is no physics portion in any card. Reason GT200 cards do so well in it because they have so much shaders to spare.

Like you said latest divers from NVIDIA finally tell some minimum requirements for PhysX and that is 32 shaders. 8400GS is way overpowered. My 8500GT already run Cryostasis slower than GTX 280 all alone.

Minimum for PhysX stuff would be 8600GT/9500GT with NVIDIA specs and tested working card (that I've seen benchmarks) that boosts framerate is 9600GT. Haven't tried Batman AA yet either, so can't comment on how taxing it is, but based on videos it isn't going to be less.

For the Batman demo, I'd guess it's newest drivers time, or waiting for next PhysX set, if there are bugs. Anyhow, it should work with GTX 275 alone just fine.

Yeah, that is why I said I don't know how true it is, I've only heard about it.

There were minimums set for PhysX previously, however it used to be any 8,9, or 200 series card with a minimum of 256MB of RAM dedicated RAM. However, I'm guess now that PhysX has been implemented to a larger extent in games, it is requiring more GPU power to run, and nVidia had to up the minimums to at least 32 Shaders as well as the 256MB of RAM.

I think if I was going with a dedicated PhysX card right now, I would get at least a 9600GT, just to make sure I was ready for the next time nVidia ups the minimum requirements.

[TheLaughingMan]

I am not sure, but have you tried the game, like suggested above, with the 8400 GS out using just the GTX 275?

[shevanel]

yeah ive played it 10 times with the 275 alone but today i tried the 8400gs added because i was sick of piss poor frame rates during physx heavy areas. 8400gs just made it worse

ut3 runs 55-60fps maxed out at 1920x1080 so i don't believe my 275 needs an rma..

plus UT3 physx maps run 10fps on gtx 275 alone. even on fresh install of vista and 1st set of video drivers.

[ShRoOmAlIsTiC]

sounds like the 8400 isnt up to par. Im running my 4850x2 with a 8800gts 320mb for physx and have no issues what so ever. thats with physx all the up in the settings where it says recommended gtx 260 w/ 9800 for physx. I think my 8800gts is barely up to par for it but it works, you could always try overclocking the 8400. In fluidmark and vantage I get a huge boost from overclockign my 8800gts. plus I can get great overclock since its just a physx card. Temps stay way down.

[OnBoard]

Originally Posted by shevanel

when batman glides from the gargoyle and kicks zaz to the floor breaking the tiles it drops to 12 fps still while using the newest drivers..

Im swapping my e6600 for a q9450 this week, maybe that will offer a small boost since there will be vista and background services left for idle core? would be nice.

this game comes out in 15 days for Pc and I want to be able to enjoy it fully. sucks I might have to play with physx disabled or buy a new video card

Have to try the demo tomorrow, feeling too sick at the moment. Or maybe I'll install it and give it a quick try, as I've already downloaded it. If I get same slowdowns with my GTX 280 then it's the game.

And no you should need to buy a new card or disable PhysX, it can't be more demanding than Cryostasis and than ran maxed (water reflection thing disabled) with PhysX ok.

[shevanel]

The gtx 275 isnt up to par either.

Good thing I have sli options.

Sigh.. another upgrade.. again.

"You are eligible to Trade Up your BFG GTX 275 OC 896 GDDR3 PCIE2 to a BFG GTX 295 1792MB PCIE2. The Trade Up cost is determined by subtracting the price you paid at retail from the MSRP ($509.99) of the BFG GTX 295 1792MB PCIE2. Subject to terms and conditions outlined here"

I might just do this here.. the 295 should be able to handle video games

[OnBoard]

Originally Posted by shevanel

The gtx 275 isnt up to par either.

Good thing I have sli options.

Sigh.. another upgrade.. again.

Noo, don't do it, Installing the demo, have to see it with my own eyes that it could be so though

Originally Posted by newtekie1

There were minimums set for PhysX previously, however it used to be any 8,9, or 200 series card with a minimum of 256MB of RAM dedicated RAM. However, I'm guess now that PhysX has been implemented to a larger extent in games, it is requiring more GPU power to run, and nVidia had to up the minimums to at least 32 Shaders as well as the 256MB of RAM.

Yep, but people find out pretty soon that lower end just wasn't up to it. Although in the start a dedicated card didn't work right and it doesn't seem like it's optimized to the fullest yet. Maybe it's more for game developers to blame as there isn't any limit set on PhysX card.

For me PhysX card shouldn't need additional power cables and this 9600GT would be the limit where it is. Although that was only with the new green versions that got rid of the PCI-E power plug. Perfect PhysX card would be a passive 9400GT, but seems it won't be enough if there is no limits set by NVIDIA for game developers.

And why whould they, if people have to start upgrade their PhysX cards too :/

[shevanel]

I'm waiting to see how your demo went.

Your pc is an inch or two faster than mine, so lets see what happens.

[newtekie1]

I would assume eventually game developers will need to put options to adjust the level of PhysX in the game to the power of the physx card used.

And the addition power connector doesn't really bother me, the original PhysX cards requierd one also. And you can get 9800GTs without power connectors now.

[OnBoard]

Well I'm currently kicking some butt on the start with papers flying on the ground and it's constant 40FPS+ with Physics on the normal setting. The high setting says GTX 260+ & 9800GTX for physh, so that shouldn't be even used.

Here's a screenie, ran out of hands to take one in a good spot.


edit: yeah, I'll play a bit further ->

[shevanel]

yeah i get around 35-43 fps on that segment of the game too, wait til you have to kick zaz

[shevanel]

dude i never knew you could use evga pt to display temp/fps.. so cool

[OnBoard]

Smoke was fine too (charters looks really nice and textures are top notch too)

Originally Posted by shevanel

yeah i get around 35-43 fps on that segment of the game too, wait til you have to kick zaz

Yeah, got there It does indeed bog down there. Something like 19FPS was minimum I hit, screenie is a bit after. Quite a lot of tiles it's pushing there. Seems more like an optimization issue, would need some soft of a buffer, maybe tehy'll tweak it a bit before release, but don't get your hopes up, wasn't it like just a couple days the whole PhysX implementation thing to the game.

Originally Posted by shevanel

dude i never knew you could use evga pt to display temp/fps.. so cool

Yep and take screenshots too


edit: have to try the higher PhysX settings to see what happens. Still everything constantly on the screen with physics runs smooth, it's just those tiles that slow down. Breaking then with them batong thing should be fine again. But for such a small part of the game and physics I think you should be fine with your card, if you can bear the couple seconds slowdown. Doubt there is so much jumping on baddies, although it was fun