First Radeon HD 5870 Performance Figures Surface

[pantherx12]

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company?

So I'm guessing that's a yes then, since they can produced things on a 45nm scale.

[W1zzard]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company?

So I'm guessing that's a yes then, since they can produced things on a 45nm scale.

yes that's tsmc. yes tsmc has a 40 nm node. nvidia has been with tsmc for ages

[Nemo~]

this is just wicked sick :O

[Valdez]

Originally Posted by W1zzard

those chiphell performance figures are against the gtx 285, at least thats what it says there

One of those shows 5870 vs gtx295.

Originally Posted by newtekie1

PhysX does not have a hit on game performance. Yes, the FPS goes down because there are more object to render. However, the big performance improvemnt comes with the game physics. If the same level of physics was done without hardware acceleration, the game would slow to a crawl.

So for a benchmark to show this, it is entirely representitive of real life.

Its simply because
Physx is an Nvidia trademark, and in case you havent noticed it is dying and will be dead and gone when DX11 games start to come out. There where very few titles that used physx and it was a non starter from the get go, the score from an nvidia card running physx is not comparable to a ATI card of roughly the same perf cause the phyics tests in vantage were supposed to be done by the cpu and were not specifically for the Physx API. So saying a Nvidia card that got 40% more than a comparable ATI card in vantage is not representative of real life benchmarks and games, it was a bug that got fixed, end of.

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Yes, it is soooooo outragous that nVidia pays for development time to make the game optimized better. Developement time costs money, and nVidia paying game devs to spend extra time optimizing the game to run better for the customer is a good thing. I wish ATi cared as much about their customers and making them happy. They had a similar program, and all but dropped it...

Wrong again, development my ass, what about the .Exe names that could be changed to give ATI users the same performance that nvidia users were getting in these so called " optimised for Nvidia" games, its marketing BS and it is wrong for game devs to bend over for a quick buck from Nvidia when the games shouldnt run any worse on ATI hardware

[pantherx12]

Don't Nvidia have greater market share?

Devs will make games that work with the majority everytime.

If ATI take the lead then dev will make things work better with ATI.

[FreedomEclipse]

time to trade in my 2 4870's.....

[pantherx12]

mastrdrver posted these in the HD5 series discussion thread.

Edit: see my below post.

[mastrdrver]

Thanks panther but your links don't work.

Just watch XS and B3D. Stuff is just popping up left and right on those two forums. There will be nothing left to reveal by the time the NDA is up.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

You think Nvidia's going to have their answer to the 5000 series out before December? Everything I've ever heard around here says no.

I think there is a possibility.

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

...fixed that for you there.

If you think Nvidia isn't "encouraging" developers to design in ways that only makes it faster on their hardware while simultaneously making it slower on other brands, you're fooling yourself. It's business, and if they can make money off of it, you can bet they're doing it.

There is no such thing as a conspiracy in the business world if there's money to be made.

I'd rather the game run the same speed on ALL hardware, and not have to buy a certain company's products to get full speed.

That isn't true, and there isn't a single thing even indicating it. When you show me a sliver of proof, I'll talk to you about this, until then, don't spread lies.

Originally Posted by InTeL-iNsIdE

Its simply because
Physx is an Nvidia trademark, and in case you havent noticed it is dying and will be dead and gone when DX11 games start to come out. There where very few titles that used physx and it was a non starter from the get go, the score from an nvidia card running physx is not comparable to a ATI card of roughly the same perf cause the phyics tests in vantage were supposed to be done by the cpu and were not specifically for the Physx API. So saying a Nvidia card that got 40% more than a comparable ATI card in vantage is not representative of real life benchmarks and games, it was a bug that got fixed, end of.

When DX11 comes out, I'll be glad, as a unified physic API is what the industry needed.

However, DX11 and PhysX dying has nothing to do with Vantage, a DX10 benchmark. Vantage was not just a benchmark to give raw graphical performance, it was a benchmark to give overall computer performance. The PhysX API was included, and meant to be used. Futuremark even allowed it entirely using dedicated PhysX cards. All the world records were set with Ageia cards in the machines, it was perfectly acceptable.

The PhysX tests in Vantage were meant to test PhysX performance, it didn't matter where it was calculated at, until nVidia started doing it on the GPUs, and the ATi fans started freaking out.

Originally Posted by InTeL-iNsIdE

Wrong again, development my ass, what about the .Exe names that could be changed to give ATI users the same performance that nvidia users were getting in these so called " optimised for Nvidia" games, its marketing BS and it is wrong for game devs to bend over for a quick buck from Nvidia when the games shouldnt run any worse on ATI hardware

Show me this, because I doubt it ever happened. What you are saying isn't possible. Changing the EXEs improves performance for ATi for several reasons, but not the reason you are stating. Usually it is done to invoke optimizations from and older game for a new game, in the drivers that were applied by ATi. It has noething to do with the game devs at all. Changing the name of the EXE fools outside programs(drivers), but it doesn't change the what the program runs itself. The in game optimizations won't be change if you rename the EXE.

But I fear we are going way off topic here, so I'll end it here. I think if you want to discuss it further, a dedicated topic would be best.

[gumpty]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

mastrdrver posted these in the HD5 series discussion thread.

http://tweakimg.net/g/forum/template...com/oho6qa.png
http://tweakimg.net/g/forum/template...om/2gt16v5.png
http://tweakimg.net/g/forum/template...com/wj9ru9.png

There's your FPS info folks.

Your links appear to be broken, sir.

EDIT: I am so slow.

[pantherx12]

Bollocks!

Sorry guys

Fixed in this post

http://tweakimg.net/g/forum/template...com/oho6qa.png

http://tweakimg.net/g/forum/template...om/2gt16v5.png

http://tweakimg.net/g/forum/template...com/wj9ru9.png

[mdm-adph]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

That isn't true, and there isn't a single thing even indicating it. When you show me a sliver of proof, I'll talk to you about this, until then, don't spread lies.

Prove that it's not.

It's a mechanism by which Nvidia could reap higher profits at absolutely zero risk, even if they're found out. Therefore, in the business world, trust me -- it's being done.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

Prove that it's not.

It's a mechanism by which Nvidia could reap higher profits at absolutely zero risk, even if they're found out. Therefore, in the business world, trust me -- it's being done.

You made the negative claims, it is your responsibility to prove them. It isn't a persons responsibility to prove they didn't commit murder, just because someone else says they did. The person making the accusations bears the burden of proof.

[laszlo]

according to this is not a big "leap" older cards are still good enough

[pantherx12]

What are you talking about thats a huge leap!

the 295 has two gpus! the 5870 one gpu.

[mdm-adph]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

You made the negative claims, it is your responsibility to prove them. It isn't a persons responsibility to prove they didn't commit murder, just because someone else says they did. The person making the accusations bears the burden of proof.

Yeah, well this isn't a criminal claim I'm making, either. It's civil -- and in that case, as long as there is a "preponderance of the evidence," the burden of proof is on Nvidia to prove that they're not guilty.

And I think the fact that they could make millions is all the "preponderance" I (and anyone else) need.

[TheMailMan78]

But will the 5870 fix the G-D DAMN SHADOWS IN BF2??!

[KainXS]

Originally Posted by laszlo

according to this is not a big "leap" older cards are still good enough

its big enough for me it outperforms the highest end consumer card available(not including the mars) at high res with AA based on what ive seen

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

Yeah, well this isn't a criminal claim I'm making, either. It's civil -- and in that case, as long as there is a "preponderance of the evidence," the burden of proof is on Nvidia to prove that they're not guilty.

And I think the fact that they could make millions is all the "preponderance" I (and anyone else) need.

Hardly a preponderance of evidence. "They could make money if they did" isn't evidence of any kind. It is still up to the accuser to provide evidence, and motive is not evidence and certainly not enough to be considered a preponderance.

Originally Posted by laszlo

according to this is not a big "leap" older cards are still good enough

It is a big leap for the single GPU, but more importantly a very good sign. It is the first time in a long while that ATi has managed to put out a next generation single GPU card that can top all the cards from a previous generation. This is what the industry/consumer needs.

[araditus]

Newtekie, you troll hardcore bro, gotta always get the last word, this is a news thread, input your news,or specific facts and chill, toast a bagel or go for a run to get the saratonin levels up

[KainXS]

newtekie is right, I don't think he's trolling

Some games aren't optimized for ATI cards because game developers in general aren't going to optimize the games unless they are paid to do so. . . . because they can make money, its all about the money, its the money game as usual.

and certain games are faster after being renamed because ATI does optimizations every now and then for games by having the drivers hook onto the games filename, but if the game has no fixes or whatnot the game will run without them and might run like crap, so you rename the exe to a filename thats the drivers can recognize and hook to and then the game loads with those optimizations, nvidia tries to avoid this by saying here take this money and optimize this game for our cards, . . . . . done, . . . . . and ATI does the same thing sometimes.

Theres nothing evil about it, thats ATI's fault for not playing the game.

I can say this and I will be one of the first in line to get me a HD5870 in two weeks no matter what.

[mdm-adph]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Hardly a preponderance of evidence. "They could make money if they did" isn't evidence of any kind. It is still up to the accuser to provide evidence, and motive is not evidence and certainly not enough to be considered a preponderance.

All a business does is try to make more money -- that's the motive. The stupid "Way It's Meant to Be Played" is the evidence. End of line.

But that's all I'm going to bother saying -- it's not worth it.

Another reason why they've got nothing to lose is that they've got people like you, ready to defend anything they do.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by araditus

Newtekie, you troll hardcore bro, gotta always get the last word, this is a news thread, input your news,or specific facts and chill, toast a bagel or go for a run to get the saratonin levels up

Because you obviously don't know the definition of trolling /\/\/\//\/\That/\/\/\/\/\ is trolling...how ironic.

Being in a discussion doesn't make me a troll, no matter how much your disagree with my opinions.

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

All a business does is try to make more money -- that's the motive. The stupid "Way It's Meant to Be Played" is the evidence. End of line.

But that's all I'm going to bother saying -- it's not worth it.

Another reason why they've got nothing to lose is that they've got people like you, ready to defend anything they do.

Hardly evidence to support your claims. Come on, at least try. Again, when you can back up your claims, then we'll talk. Show me at least a little hard evidence, and not just conspiracy BS.

Originally Posted by KainXS

newtekie is right, I don't think he's trolling

Some games aren't optimized for ATI cards because game developers in general aren't going to optimize the games unless they are paid to do so. . . . because they can make money, its all about the money, its the money game as usual.

and certain games are faster after being renamed because ATI does optimizations every now and then for games by having the drivers hook onto the games filename, but if the game has no fixes or whatnot the game will run without them and might run like crap, so you rename the exe to a filename thats the drivers can recognize and hook to and then the game loads with those optimizations, nvidia tries to avoid this by saying here take this money and optimize this game for our cards, . . . . . done, . . . . . and ATI does the same thing sometimes.

Theres nothing evil about it, thats ATI's fault for not playing the game.

I can say this and I will be one of the first in line to get me a HD5870 in two weeks no matter what.

Thank you. There is really no use stating logic though, mdm-adph and others like him don't care. They believe nVidia is evil, with no evidence of any wrong doing, and nothing you can say will change that. mdm-adph, is the first person to bash nVidia as much as possible, and then call everyone else that disagrees with him a fanboy because they don't agree that ATi is god's gift to video card.

You say negative things about ATi, and your an instant nVidia fanboy to mdm-adph. Doesn't matter that you say something postive in the same post, or even that you say negative things about nVidia also...

[erocker]

Originally Posted by araditus

Newtekie, you troll hardcore bro, gotta always get the last word, this is a news thread, input your news,or specific facts and chill, toast a bagel or go for a run to get the saratonin levels up

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Because you obviously don't know the definition of trolling /\/\/\//\/\That/\/\/\/\/\ is trolling...how ironic.

Being in a discussion doesn't make me a troll, no matter how much your disagree with my opinions.

Stop... Now. Use the report button. Infractions are given for trolls and those who troll, trolls. Keep on topic. Don't feel the need to explain yourself. Don't derail the subject at hand. State your case and move along.

Thank you.